HDTV Audio and Anti-Glare

UCLAN wrote:
Wes Newell wrote:

I still want to know what makes you think ESPN on channel 49 is Clear
QAM.

Clear ::= unencrypted

QAM ::= cable modulation in digital format

I see and believe!-)

You really *don't* understand, do you? Channel 49 on your TV is a 6 MHz
wide NTSC analog channel, not even a digital channel. NTSC video uses AM
(amplitude modulation), and its audio uses FM (frequency modulation.)
Only the color sub-carrier uses QAM, and it's analog QAM.

Digital QAM channels have a xx.x or xx-x format on a TV. Analog channels
have whole number channel numbers, with no "." or "-".

I am afraid it's you that doesn't really understand. Any broadcast of
any type can be on any channel number assigned to it. All I get is OTA
ATSC and I don't use any delimiter in the number.

We're talking cable hyperband here. Channel 49 is a 6MHz wide NTSC channel
with the video carrier at 373.25MHz and the audio carrier at 377.75MHz. If
a tuner in a cable ready TV tunes to 49, it tunes to an NTSC analog
channel,
period. How you have your remote/tuner set up for OTA is quite irrelevant.
ESPN viewed on channel 49 on a TV is NOT Clear QAM...period.

period? You have not stated what STATE you are in, and the analog
channels vary from state to state (and even from county to county).

Your self confidence is fine, but your absolute statements are just flat
wrong for many of the people elsewhere in the USA.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:49:13 -0700, UCLAN wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:

I still want to know what makes you think ESPN on channel 49 is Clear
QAM.

Clear ::= unencrypted

QAM ::= cable modulation in digital format

I see and believe!-)

You really *don't* understand, do you? Channel 49 on your TV is a 6 MHz
wide NTSC analog channel, not even a digital channel. NTSC video uses
AM (amplitude modulation), and its audio uses FM (frequency
modulation.) Only the color sub-carrier uses QAM, and it's analog QAM.

Digital QAM channels have a xx.x or xx-x format on a TV. Analog
channels have whole number channel numbers, with no "." or "-".

I am afraid it's you that doesn't really understand. Any broadcast of
any type can be on any channel number assigned to it. All I get is OTA
ATSC and I don't use any delimiter in the number.

We're talking cable hyperband here. Channel 49 is a 6MHz wide NTSC
channel with the video carrier at 373.25MHz and the audio carrier at
377.75MHz. If a tuner in a cable ready TV tunes to 49, it tunes to an
NTSC analog channel, period. How you have your remote/tuner set up for
OTA is quite irrelevant. ESPN viewed on channel 49 on a TV is NOT Clear
QAM...period.

Since you just don't get it, I'll try another way. QAM is part of the
ATSC specification. That specification calls for the sending of psip
information as part of the broadcast. That information includes a channel
number to display. That number is stored in memory when the frequencies
are scanned and then when that number is entered the tuner tunes to that
frequency. It doesn't tune to a channel number. If psip channel number is
omitted, the number associated with it is the standard assigned channel
number for that frequency. This used to happen frequently when stations
were setting up for digital. I doubt if you'll find many now, but it's
possible. It's also possible that the channel 49 he's talking about is
really on another frequency, and that the 49 is the number his cable co.
has assigned to it. And CCTV (closed circuit tv), which is what the cable
companies are, can assign any number they want to to any frequency they
want to. They don't play by the standard rules. And when your TV is in
cable mode, it reads their info and to hell with the standard frequency
rules. His 49 can be anything from ntsc to digital 999 or whatever.
That's why TV's have different modes. Those are the selection you make
during setup. Mine has Air, and then 4 cable modes to chose from. The
bottom line is that in cable mode channel 49 can be any type of broadcast
at the whims of the cable co. It's their system and they can do anything
they want to to it. Now if this doesn't explain it, I give up.

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RickMerrill wrote:

We're talking cable hyperband here. Channel 49 is a 6MHz wide NTSC
channel
with the video carrier at 373.25MHz and the audio carrier at
377.75MHz. If
a tuner in a cable ready TV tunes to 49, it tunes to an NTSC analog
channel,
period. How you have your remote/tuner set up for OTA is quite
irrelevant.
ESPN viewed on channel 49 on a TV is NOT Clear QAM...period.

period? You have not stated what STATE you are in, and the analog
channels vary from state to state (and even from county to county).

Your self confidence is fine, but your absolute statements are just flat
wrong for many of the people elsewhere in the USA.

State or county doesn't matter. A TV tuning cable band channel 49 WILL
tune a video carrier at 373.75MHz and an audio carrier at 377.75MHz. Can
you imagine buying a TV in New Mexico that had different tuning than one
bought in Virginia. CABLE BOX channels/frequencies may well vary, but not
the NTSC tuners in TVs.

Wes Newell wrote:

You really *don't* understand, do you? Channel 49 on your TV is a 6 MHz
wide NTSC analog channel, not even a digital channel. NTSC video uses
AM (amplitude modulation), and its audio uses FM (frequency
modulation.) Only the color sub-carrier uses QAM, and it's analog QAM.

Digital QAM channels have a xx.x or xx-x format on a TV. Analog
channels have whole number channel numbers, with no "." or "-".

I am afraid it's you that doesn't really understand. Any broadcast of
any type can be on any channel number assigned to it. All I get is OTA
ATSC and I don't use any delimiter in the number.

We're talking cable hyperband here. Channel 49 is a 6MHz wide NTSC
channel with the video carrier at 373.25MHz and the audio carrier at
377.75MHz. If a tuner in a cable ready TV tunes to 49, it tunes to an
NTSC analog channel, period. How you have your remote/tuner set up for
OTA is quite irrelevant. ESPN viewed on channel 49 on a TV is NOT Clear
QAM...period.

Since you just don't get it, I'll try another way. QAM is part of the
ATSC specification. That specification calls for the sending of psip
information as part of the broadcast. That information includes a channel
number to display. That number is stored in memory when the frequencies
are scanned and then when that number is entered the tuner tunes to that
frequency. It doesn't tune to a channel number. If psip channel number is
omitted, the number associated with it is the standard assigned channel
number for that frequency. This used to happen frequently when stations
were setting up for digital. I doubt if you'll find many now, but it's
possible. It's also possible that the channel 49 he's talking about is
really on another frequency, and that the 49 is the number his cable co.
has assigned to it.

OK, I'll stop you right there. You're somewhat confused. When a person
tunes his/her TV to cable-band channel 49, his/her TV tunes a video carrier
at 373.25MHz and an audio carrier at 377.75MHz. Whatever the cable company
assigned to those frequencies will be displayed. This is a fixed channel
assignment, and has nothing to do with PSIP. Some additional digital channels
may have been assigned virtual channel numbers 49.1, 49.2, etc., and have
PSIP data identifying them as such, but the whole number channel 49 remains
NTSC on cable tuning TVs. The "xx.1", "xx.2", etc., is the PSIP virtual
channel number. For example on the local cox system: channel 15 is "Azteca"
(Spanish programming) with it's NTSC video and audio sub carriers at 127.25
and 131.75 MHz respectively, while 15.1 is ATSC KPBS-HD at 555 MHz, and 15.2
is "V-Me" at 555 MHz. The main (whole number) channel is NTSC, while the
".xx" channels are ATSC. On a TV, whole number channels are NTSC, not
Clear QAM ATSC.

UCLAN wrote:
RickMerrill wrote:

We're talking cable hyperband here. Channel 49 is a 6MHz wide NTSC
channel
with the video carrier at 373.25MHz and the audio carrier at
377.75MHz. If
a tuner in a cable ready TV tunes to 49, it tunes to an NTSC analog
channel,
period. How you have your remote/tuner set up for OTA is quite
irrelevant.
ESPN viewed on channel 49 on a TV is NOT Clear QAM...period.

period? You have not stated what STATE you are in, and the analog
channels vary from state to state (and even from county to county).

Your self confidence is fine, but your absolute statements are just
flat wrong for many of the people elsewhere in the USA.

State or county doesn't matter. A TV tuning cable band channel 49 WILL
tune a video carrier at 373.75MHz and an audio carrier at 377.75MHz. Can
you imagine buying a TV in New Mexico that had different tuning than one
bought in Virginia. CABLE BOX channels/frequencies may well vary, but not
the NTSC tuners in TVs.

Your knowledge is obsolete now. Sorry. A lot of what I knew is obsolete
too :-)

We're not talking about NTSC in an HDTV group.

Any TV you buy in the US today has QAM, ATSC as well as NTSC for
backwards compatibility.

analog, he's talking analog ...

RickMerrill wrote:

We're talking cable hyperband here. Channel 49 is a 6MHz wide NTSC
channel
with the video carrier at 373.25MHz and the audio carrier at
377.75MHz. If
a tuner in a cable ready TV tunes to 49, it tunes to an NTSC analog
channel,
period. How you have your remote/tuner set up for OTA is quite
irrelevant.
ESPN viewed on channel 49 on a TV is NOT Clear QAM...period.

period? You have not stated what STATE you are in, and the analog
channels vary from state to state (and even from county to county).

Your self confidence is fine, but your absolute statements are just
flat wrong for many of the people elsewhere in the USA.

State or county doesn't matter. A TV tuning cable band channel 49 WILL
tune a video carrier at 373.75MHz and an audio carrier at 377.75MHz. Can
you imagine buying a TV in New Mexico that had different tuning than one
bought in Virginia. CABLE BOX channels/frequencies may well vary, but not
the NTSC tuners in TVs.

Your knowledge is obsolete now. Sorry. A lot of what I knew is obsolete
too :-)

We're not talking about NTSC in an HDTV group.

We are if we're talking about a TV tuned to channel 49 or channel 50 on
a cable system. And since you said you were receiving ESPN and ESPN2
in Clear QAM on those channels (which you aren't)...

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
RickMerrill wrote:

I still want to know what makes you think ESPN on channel 49
is Clear QAM.

Clear ::= unencrypted

QAM ::= cable modulation in digital format

I see and believe!-)

You really *don't* understand, do you? Channel 49 on your TV
is a
6 MHz wide NTSC analog channel, not even a digital channel.
NTSC
video uses AM (amplitude modulation), and its audio uses FM
(frequency
modulation.) Only the color sub-carrier uses QAM, and it's
analog QAM.

Digital QAM channels have a xx.x or xx-x format on a TV.
Analog channels have whole number channel numbers, with no "."
or "-".

You obviously missed the part where Rick said, "Comcast's "box"
translates 49 into 75-9
and 50 into 75-10" and again when he said, "You "tune" the STB
to 49."

He's not been talking about using the TV's tuner at all. STBs
don't typically utilize sub-channels, and his STB's channel 49
could be digital or analog. Rick says it's digital and has
cited the cable subchannles tuned by the STB for 49 and 50.
Your head is once again in that dark place which prevents you
from seeing anyone else, at any other location in the world, as
being right when it doesn't work that way in your home. But
don't let me interrupt this endless, inane tirade of yours - the
world will surely be a better place for it.

CLicker wrote:

You really *don't* understand, do you? Channel 49 on your TV is a 6 MHz
wide NTSC analog channel, not even a digital channel. NTSC video uses AM
(amplitude modulation), and its audio uses FM (frequency modulation.)
Only the color sub-carrier uses QAM, and it's analog QAM.

Digital QAM channels have a xx.x or xx-x format on a TV. Analog channels
have whole number channel numbers, with no "." or "-".

You obviously missed the part where Rick said, "Comcast's "box" translates
49 into 75-9 and 50 into 75-10" and again when he said, "You "tune" the STB
to 49."

He's not been talking about using the TV's tuner at all.

Sigh...

Go back and read the whole thread. On 10-19 he wrote:

"In the US you can bypass the cable box and go straight to the tv digital
tuner - then you have to surf for the call letters to find out the dash
channels (I use dot myself).

From there, he started saying how he got ESPN and ESPN2 in Clear QAM, so
yes...he has been talking about using the TV's tuner. The fact that his
STB receives the stations in the 531MHz (Ultraband channel 75) group is
irrelevant to what his TV does.

STBs don't
typically utilize sub-channels, and his STB's channel 49 could be digital
or analog. Rick says it's digital and has cited the cable subchannles
tuned by the STB for 49 and 50.

Huh? His _TV's_ channel 49 and 50 are analog. Since he was discussing
Clear QAM, he was discussing the TV tuner, not the STB. The sub-channels
were channel 75 sub-channels, unrelated to his TVs channel 49 or 50.

Your head is once again in that dark place
which prevents you from seeing anyone else, at any other location in the
world, as being right when it doesn't work that way in your home. But don't
let me interrupt this endless, inane tirade of yours - the world will
surely be a better place for it.

Nice prose, but I hope you are a better farmer. Read the whole thread, then
tell me what US television has a channel 49 or 50 that is *NOT* a 6MHz wide
NTSC channel.

He never *did* answer the question: "What makes you think you're getting
ESPN and ESPN2 in Clear QAM?"

But thanks for reviving a dead thread.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:15:12 -0700, UCLAN wrote:


Huh? His _TV's_ channel 49 and 50 are analog. Since he was discussing
Clear QAM, he was discussing the TV tuner, not the STB. The sub-channels
were channel 75 sub-channels, unrelated to his TVs channel 49 or 50.

Nice prose, but I hope you are a better farmer. Read the whole thread,
then tell me what US television has a channel 49 or 50 that is *NOT* a
6MHz wide NTSC channel.

He never *did* answer the question: "What makes you think you're getting
ESPN and ESPN2 in Clear QAM?"

He's just trying to educate you. Since you won't listen to anyone else,
I'll just post this. Pay close attention to the first sentence in Cable
TV. That means they can put anything they want on any number they want.
So if they want to put HBO-HD on clear qam on channel 49, they can damn
well do it. Now, with an old TV without a QAM tuner, you won't be able to
get it. But with a newer TV with a QAM tuner, and the mode set to cable
mode, it should find it on channel 49 as a QAM signal. If it doesn't,
then it's a screwed up tv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel...-M)#Digital_TV

Digital TV

Technically, the ATSC standard allows for a major virtual channel number
from 1 - 99, followed by a separator ('.' or '-') and a digital
subchannel number from 1 - 99 (for broadcast TV) or 1 - 999 (datacasting
or cable TV). As such, it does not preclude the creation of a virtual
channel 1.1 or a virtual channel 37.1:

"The major_channel_number shall be between 1 and 99. The value of
major_channel_number shall be set such that in no case is a
major_channel_number / minor_channel_number pair duplicated within the
TVCT."[8]

However, the specification does not define any criteria to determine whom
(if anyone) could ultimately be assigned the 1.1 virtual channel series
for over-the-air broadcast in a local community; it merely defines a
procedure to allocate virtual channels 02-69 based on holders of the
corresponding (former) analogue NTSC licenses and designates virtual
channels 70-99 for possible use to carry additional, unrelated
programming via the facilities of these same broadcasters. (99 was used
briefly by the now-defunct USDTV, for instance, although such
applications are rare.)

Cable TV

The situation for cable television differs in that channel numbering is
at the discretion of the cable system operator.

Digital cable subscribers in many areas, such as those serviced by
Comcast and Charter Communications, can find video on demand content at
Channel 1. The TV Guide Network is also often found on a cable system's
Channel 1.

Cable subscribers in the New York area receive local news channel NY1 on
channel one (actually 101), served by Time Warner Cable and Cablevision.
The physical channel number is 10, but converter boxes convert to channel
one.





--
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My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
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