time delays on dab vs analogue

Hello group,

When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

I listen to R4 before going to work in the morning.
At the top of the hour, they have the pips. I have an analogue
radio in the bedroom, another one in the bathroom, digital in
the front room (freeview), all on at the same time as I'm running round
getting ready for work.. and the time gap is very apparent.
I'd guess the digital one is 7 seconds late.

If the answer to the accuracy question is analogue, then is this
the end of an accurate time signal on BBC radio when analogue
transmission ends? When *everything* goes digital, is *everything* going
to be 7s later than the actuality?

--
comp.john

The message
from "comp.john" contains these words:

Hello group,

When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

I listen to R4 before going to work in the morning.
At the top of the hour, they have the pips. I have an analogue
radio in the bedroom, another one in the bathroom, digital in
the front room (freeview), all on at the same time as I'm running round
getting ready for work.. and the time gap is very apparent.
I'd guess the digital one is 7 seconds late.

If the answer to the accuracy question is analogue, then is this
the end of an accurate time signal on BBC radio when analogue
transmission ends? When *everything* goes digital, is *everything* going
to be 7s later than the actuality?

Ah! If it were only that simple.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

"comp.john" wrote in message
...
Hello group,

When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

I listen to R4 before going to work in the morning.
At the top of the hour, they have the pips. I have an analogue
radio in the bedroom, another one in the bathroom, digital in
the front room (freeview), all on at the same time as I'm running round
getting ready for work.. and the time gap is very apparent.
I'd guess the digital one is 7 seconds late.

If the answer to the accuracy question is analogue, then is this
the end of an accurate time signal on BBC radio when analogue
transmission ends? When *everything* goes digital, is *everything* going
to be 7s later than the actuality?

The number of seconds delay depends on your hardware as well as the
transmission.

I guess that when (and if) analogue radio transmissions end the BBC will
give up the GMT pips.

Most people have at least one radio controlled clock in the house.

--
Max Demian

In article ,
comp.john wrote:
When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

Rather obviously the earliest one - as you can delay something, but not
make it happen before it does, as it were. If you could, you've just
invented time travel.

I listen to R4 before going to work in the morning.
At the top of the hour, they have the pips. I have an analogue
radio in the bedroom, another one in the bathroom, digital in
the front room (freeview), all on at the same time as I'm running round
getting ready for work.. and the time gap is very apparent.
I'd guess the digital one is 7 seconds late.

They will all be different - with DAB being the worst. But two receivers
on DAB or FreeView can give different results too.

If the answer to the accuracy question is analogue, then is this
the end of an accurate time signal on BBC radio when analogue
transmission ends? When *everything* goes digital, is *everything* going
to be 7s later than the actuality?

It's a function of all digital that it introduces a delay. Just how much
depends on many things.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2009-10-19, Max Demian wrote:

The number of seconds delay depends on your hardware as well as the
transmission.

oh, great so the pips are not equivalent on compliant hardware.
What's the digital delay on high-end hardware?

I guess that when (and if) analogue radio transmissions end the BBC will
give up the GMT pips.

That's a severe change. Pips have been around as long as radio. Aren't
they meant to be accurate to within a second - I mean 7 seconds late
then why have them at all.

Most people have at least one radio controlled clock in the house.

If you mean most people have a computer (ie NTP) then yeah I agree.
But not clock as in clock on the wall or bedside clock.

Why am I even concerned about this? It's because it seems to be a
retrograde step. On analogue, if you have 5 radios of different makes
and prices and quality all tuned to the same station, you'd notice
little difference when the pips came on, and it's been that way for years.
With DAB the difference is vast, comparitively.
--
comp.john

On 2009-10-19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
comp.john wrote:
When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

Rather obviously the earliest one - as you can delay something, but not
make it happen before it does, as it were. If you could, you've just
invented time travel.

....well, yeah I should really have read that through, lol.

They will all be different - with DAB being the worst. But two receivers
on DAB or FreeView can give different results too.

yeah, I have 2 DAB-only radios too but these aren't used as often as the
analogues.

If the answer to the accuracy question is analogue, then is this
the end of an accurate time signal on BBC radio when analogue
transmission ends? When *everything* goes digital, is *everything* going
to be 7s later than the actuality?

It's a function of all digital that it introduces a delay. Just how much
depends on many things.

http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/timelag.html

Yeah. No more pips! sniff
--
comp.john

"comp.john" wrote in message
...
Hello group,

When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

I listen to R4 before going to work in the morning.
At the top of the hour, they have the pips. I have an analogue
radio in the bedroom, another one in the bathroom, digital in
the front room (freeview), all on at the same time as I'm running round
getting ready for work.. and the time gap is very apparent.
I'd guess the digital one is 7 seconds late.

If the answer to the accuracy question is analogue, then is this
the end of an accurate time signal on BBC radio when analogue
transmission ends? When *everything* goes digital, is *everything* going
to be 7s later than the actuality?

--
comp.john


The pips on FM are quire accurate according to my MSF radio clock

The pips on any digital service will be delayed. DAB contains a time stamp
which a DAB radio may be able to diusplay and which might (ought to!) be
more accurate.


--
Michael Chare

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
comp.john wrote:
When the time signal arrives, which is the accurate one. DAB or
analogue?

Rather obviously the earliest one - as you can delay something, but not
make it happen before it does, as it were. If you could, you've just
invented time travel.

No, clever clogs, that's ********. The BBC could play the pips early so as
to make them more-or-less right for DAB. In theory . . .

Bill

comp.john wrote:
On 2009-10-19, Max Demian wrote:

The number of seconds delay depends on your hardware as well as the
transmission.

oh, great so the pips are not equivalent on compliant hardware.
What's the digital delay on high-end hardware?

I don't think there's any correlation between the expence of a
particular receiver, and its decoding delay.

In short, forget about accurate time from digital broadcast radio or TV,
and splash out on one of these:-

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2551966/c_1/1|category_root|Jewellery+and+watches|14416987/c_2/2|cat_14416987|Clocks+and+clock+radios|14417256/c_3/3|cat_14417256|Wall+clocks|14417259.htm


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

http://www.paras.org.uk/

"comp.john" wrote:

On 2009-10-19, Max Demian wrote:

Most people have at least one radio controlled clock in the house.

If you mean most people have a computer (ie NTP) then yeah I agree.
But not clock as in clock on the wall or bedside clock.

Google "radio controlled clock". I've an RC kitchen wall clock and two RC
alarm clocks. Very cheap:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cadiz-White-.../dp/B000H1QSIU

--
Dave Farrance