Storeton main relay

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 05:18:26 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

Even if I can't find a solution using windows based software, there's
still the Linux based PVR solutions to try (encouragingly, the PCI card
I was using in my desktop was recognised ok by the Kaffeine mediaplayer
and worked perfectly under a Knoppix Live CD session).

It is not so much that Kaffeine recognises the card, but that the kernel
version you have, comes with the necessary module to support that card
and that it gets loaded and that any necessary tuning front end firmware
gets loaded.

If a card is not recognised then you need to check at

http://www.linuxtv.ORG/wiki/

to see if the device has any support (since this site is run by the
people who write the modules for DVB support in the Linux kernel)
and if it is, download the latest appropriate module and any firmware
that is required to be loaded.

All Kaffeine does is look to see if there is are any valid devices
starting at /dev/dvb0 to /dev/dvbN

The message
from Agzee contains these words:

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 05:18:26 +0100, Johnny B Good
wrote:

The message
from "Brian Gaff" contains these words:

Could it be a n update of some sort to some software?
Brian

Second reply to your query:

Contrary to my theory that a trojan might have afflicted both the
desktop _and_ the laptop to interfere with a vital process in the DTVR
application being used (albeit with totally different DVB-T tuner
hardware), it does indeed appear to be some subtle change to the
structure of the data streams in each multiplex.

After extensive testing with various adapters and software on the
Mini-Q box under the win2k OS and seeing pretty much the same symptom in
all cases, I finally restored a winXP image to test under that OS and
still got the same symptom.

Although I've only tested with one adapter and the DTVR software so
far, I expect to see the same problems with the other adapters and
associated software. However, I still need to do further testing to
confirm this hypothesis.

One thing that might work out better under winXP would be software such
as GBPVR. Also, I do have another adapter which I haven't tried since it
lacked driver support in win2k. This might prove a workaround to the
current problem.

Even if I can't find a solution using windows based software, there's
still the Linux based PVR solutions to try (encouragingly, the PCI card
I was using in my desktop was recognised ok by the Kaffeine mediaplayer
and worked perfectly under a Knoppix Live CD session).

Anyway, more feedback later.


I also have a computer based TV setup using a couple of 'DigitalNow'
USB 2.0 tuners, my O/S is Windows XP Pro SP3 and I also use the
Storeton transmitter.

Just recently my main program DNTVLive! has developed a tendency to
react slowly when changing channels, in the past it used to take about
1 to 2 seconds to change channels, now it is taking up to 10 seconds
and at times I get a Windows message that the program is not
responding. Although if I ignore the message the program continues
working fine.

By comparison using 'DVBViewer' or 'MyTheatre' changing channels takes
1 to 2 seconds so the fault is not with the Storeton incoming signal.

My software DNTVLive! is Australian and a few people there have also
been experiencing a long delay when changing channels, the theory is
that a recent Windows update is causing the problem in respect of my
software.

I rather think that that theory is simply based on an assumption that a
recent update must be responsible because very few PC users have the
nouse to change the automatic updates settings to where they can vet
what Microsoft are trying to foist upon their computers (I'm thinking of
the unwanted optional software update that automatically cursed such
systems with the thin end of the wedge of Vista nastiness in the form of
IE7 and IE8 wherein the automatic update mechanism intended to allow
critical updates and bug fixes to be applied was used to stealth
'upgrade' IE6 without the users' consent).

Anyway, all that aside, in my case, I _know_ that it wasn't caused by a
recent microsoft update since I have automatic updates completely
disabled on both machines (no security advisor nag screen in win2k ;-).

Using an image backup from a couple of years ago of win2k on the Mini-Q
test box would have allowed normal service to resume if it had been down
to a recent update or virus infection but, the plain fact is, it didn't
make any difference. Even trying a similar exercise with a winXP SP2
image and updating to just shy of the SP3 update gave the same result.

The only benefit of winXP was that I was able to try out another Peak
branded card that wasn't supported in win2k but which came with a
program called Power Cinema 4.7 (which, like most of these things is
total and utter crap compared to the likes of DTVR which merely sucks)
but it did, after a hiccup on scanning for channels, at least work!

That leaves me with two possible adapters and their associated software
that will still work in the face of an as yet unquantified change in the
mux transmissions from both WH and Storeton (and probably almost every
other transmitter in the country).

The one possible solution I've overlooked is that of reverting to the
crapware that came with the USB tuning stick I'm using on the laptop.
It's even crappier than the Power Cinema crapware, but if it allows me
to continue recording TV programs on a shedule, then so be it.

Well, the Crapware (in this case called TotalMedia) bombed out just
like DTVR did, exactly the same error message box in fact! That didn't
happen until it had scanned the first two or three muxes.

I'm trying for the third time... pulled the antenna when it had picked
up 55 "channels" and it found another two "channels" before completing
the scan, allowing me to save the scan results. Attempting to watch a
channel (Dave in this case) produced exactly the same error.

Since the front end software and the hardware are different, I suspect
there must be a stream processing module (a dll file) that's common to
all the afflicted software that cannot cope with whatever subtle change
has taken place.

A closer perusal of the installed files might reveal the suspect
module, leaving a small possibility that it might be possible to replace
it with a version that isn't so effected. I'd love to know where the
error log is hidden. Again, I suppose a bit of determined detective work
might reveal its location and allow me to work out what's going on.

Unfortunately, I need a solution right now, not in a few weeks time, so
I guess I'll be pressing that ancient Artec T1 USB _BOX_ back into
service and using the Mini_Q winXP box setup to resolve scheduling
conflicts.

The bottom line, since I've pretty well exhausted all the other
possibilities, is that some subtle change has been made to the broadcast
transmission protocol. In my case, one fatal to the working of the
particular software I happen to be using, in your case, possibly the
reason for the very slow channel changing in your software.

--
Regards, John.

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The message
from J G Miller contains these words:

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 05:18:26 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

Even if I can't find a solution using windows based software, there's
still the Linux based PVR solutions to try (encouragingly, the PCI card
I was using in my desktop was recognised ok by the Kaffeine mediaplayer
and worked perfectly under a Knoppix Live CD session).

It is not so much that Kaffeine recognises the card, but that the kernel
version you have, comes with the necessary module to support that card
and that it gets loaded and that any necessary tuning front end firmware
gets loaded.

If a card is not recognised then you need to check at

http://www.linuxtv.ORG/wiki/

to see if the device has any support (since this site is run by the
people who write the modules for DVB support in the Linux kernel)
and if it is, download the latest appropriate module and any firmware
that is required to be loaded.

All Kaffeine does is look to see if there is are any valid devices
starting at /dev/dvb0 to /dev/dvbN

Thanks for that info, JGM. I guess it was just fortuitous that the
KWorld adapter I happened to be using was included in the Kernel support
in version 5 of the Knoppix Live CD I was using (it was actually quite a
surprise when I first discovered this about a year or so back).

Still, it's nice to know that open source software is so much better
than the Taiwanese win32 crapware that comes with these DVB-T adapters.

I've had the impression for a few years now that the chances of finding
support for the whole bunch of oddball DVB-T adapters I have in stock
would be much better in Linux than in MS Windows. At least there are a
whole bunch of developers out there who do actually give a ****! ;-)

--
Regards, John.

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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:11:52 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

Still, it's nice to know that open source software is so much better
than the Taiwanese win32 crapware that comes with these DVB-T adapters.

Should you not be buying a decent DVB-t adapter with a Hauppauge or Terratec
badge?

I've had the impression for a few years now that the chances of finding
support for the whole bunch of oddball DVB-T adapters I have in stock
would be much better in Linux than in MS Windows.

Where the tricky part comes in though, is if the adapter requires firmware
to be loaded.

With the Linux kernel you need the basic DVB-t hardware module for your
device and then the front end tuning module which may need to load some
firmware for it to work. The firmware can not always be distributed with
the Linux distribution because of copyright reasons, and so one then has
to either download, or possibly extract it from the Windoze dlls.

For most major brands of DVB-s and DVB-t devices, there is good
functionality under GNU/Linux but DVB-s2 is only working fully
for certain models.

It will be very interesting to see how quickly they are able to get
out support for DVB-t2 devices when they become available.

The message
from J G Miller contains these words:

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:11:52 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

Still, it's nice to know that open source software is so much better
than the Taiwanese win32 crapware that comes with these DVB-T adapters.

Should you not be buying a decent DVB-t adapter with a Hauppauge or Terratec
badge?

Pragmatically speaking, that would seem to be the most sane tactic.
BTW, apologies for the delayed response. I've just returned from my
"Annual Break" (a week spent at a place some 9 miles north of Morpeth on
the NW coast) where the local TV reception was sans at least one MUX
(the one carrying BBC1, 2 and 3!).

I'd taken my laptop, along with the ancient Artec T1 DVB-T usb box (the
one that still works, albeit glitching (but at least not totally bombing
out) due to whatever has changed in the transimission format) and this
behaved the same way as it had on the Storeton relay. Whatever has
happened to the Storeton transmissions seems to be a nationwide
phenomena :-(

I've had the impression for a few years now that the chances of finding
support for the whole bunch of oddball DVB-T adapters I have in stock
would be much better in Linux than in MS Windows.

Where the tricky part comes in though, is if the adapter requires firmware
to be loaded.

With the Linux kernel you need the basic DVB-t hardware module for your
device and then the front end tuning module which may need to load some
firmware for it to work. The firmware can not always be distributed with
the Linux distribution because of copyright reasons, and so one then has
to either download, or possibly extract it from the Windoze dlls.

Ouch! I hadn't realised how tricky this business of pressing an
"otherwise redundent" DVB-T tuning module into service could be. It does
rather beg the question "What is the 'benefit' of BDA compliant driver
software in the ms windows OSen?"

For most major brands of DVB-s and DVB-t devices, there is good
functionality under GNU/Linux but DVB-s2 is only working fully
for certain models.

It will be very interesting to see how quickly they are able to get
out support for DVB-t2 devices when they become available.

Quite frankly, for the time being at any rate, it would be nice just to
have support for the PCI cards I _do_ have to hand (one of them is a
twin tuner card).

Anyway, belated thanks for that insight regarding the problems of
getting lesser known brands of cards to work under Linux. I've not _yet_
exhausted _all_ avenues of investigation that remain to me now that I'm
not dealing with a deadline to find _a_ solution (any solution) before
going on a week's break.

Since the problem seems to be much broader in scope than a Storeton /
WH one, I'll probably post to a newer thread (either a suitable existing
one or one of my own making) rather than here since I suspect it might
take me quite a while to find a solution to this problem.

--
Regards, John.

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On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:07:20 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

(a week spent at a place some 9 miles north of Morpeth on the NW coast)

Perhaps a simple typographical error there?

Is there is another Morpeth where one can receive the BBC multiplex
(thus ruling out Morpeth, ON) as Morpeth, county town of Northumberland
is towards the NE coast, and the place in question would then be the well
known coastal village of Amble.

where the local TV reception was sans at least one MUX
(the one carrying BBC1, 2 and 3!).

No Carol Malia then!

Whatever has happened to the Storeton transmissions seems to be a
nationwide phenomena :-(

Or has you software changed or been affected by perhaps a Windoze update?

Ouch! I hadn't realised how tricky this business of pressing an
"otherwise redundent" DVB-T tuning module into service could be.

Just check the devices page at Linux TV and see whether or not there
is a kernel module available and what needs to be done with regard to
install the firmware if necessary.

it would be nice just to have support for the PCI cards I _do_ have to hand
(one of them is a twin tuner card).

Impossible to say unless you care to reveal brand and model

The message
from J G Miller contains these words:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:07:20 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

(a week spent at a place some 9 miles north of Morpeth on the NW coast)

Perhaps a simple typographical error there?

Oops! I meant NE (I guess I'm so habituated to the contraction NW for
my locale that I forgot to make the _concious_ effort to adjust it to
NE)

Is there is another Morpeth where one can receive the BBC multiplex
(thus ruling out Morpeth, ON) as Morpeth, county town of Northumberland
is towards the NE coast, and the place in question would then be the well
known coastal village of Amble.

We were staying at a Haven Holidays site _adjacent_ to the A1 (I
suppose it would be pretty close to being directly west of Amble - I
can't remember exactly, and I'm not about to dig out the road map).

where the local TV reception was sans at least one MUX
(the one carrying BBC1, 2 and 3!).

No Carol Malia then!

Whatever has happened to the Storeton transmissions seems to be a
nationwide phenomena :-(

Or has you software changed or been affected by perhaps a Windoze update?

Ouch! I hadn't realised how tricky this business of pressing an
"otherwise redundent" DVB-T tuning module into service could be.

Just check the devices page at Linux TV and see whether or not there
is a kernel module available and what needs to be done with regard to
install the firmware if necessary.

it would be nice just to have support for the PCI cards I _do_ have
to hand
(one of them is a twin tuner card).

Impossible to say unless you care to reveal brand and model

Yes, I realised that but I was rather knackered from the trip home and
digging it out of the cupboard to unpack it and check it out in detail
was just too much effort for the gloomy mood I was in (especially after
seeing how badly the crapware I'd left running on the Mini-Q box had
fared).

Anyway, I feel much better this evening so I _will_ take another gander
at that dual tuner card... ... which is a Peak Hardware branded PCI
adapter, model number: Peak 221544AGPK. There are 3 LSI chips, a couple
of 56 pin chips marked AF9015A on one and (to my surprise) AF9013 on the
other. The third chip is much larger and is a VIA chip, part number
VT6210L which, on googling, is the 2-port USB host controller chip.

Googling on AF9015A gives an interesting result in that it produces a
hit on a Myth TV query relating to a Kworld DVB-T PC160-2T adapter.
Interesting in that my Peak Hardware card seems to simply be a rebranded
Kworld card of the same model if the silk screen printed number
(PC160-2T ver C) on the PCB itself, just above the back end of the edge
connector contacts, means anything at all (and it usually does).

What I haven't tried (I think) is to check for any driver updates from
either Peak Hardware or (probably a better bet if past experience with a
Peak branded Zyxel Router is anything to go by) the original
manufacturer, Kworld. so I'll have a sniff around their websites.

Anyway, feel free to comment or advise me regarding the dual tuner
card. I'm off to do some further 'research'.

--
Regards, John.

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On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:22:36 +0100, Johnny B Good wrote:

my Peak Hardware card seems to simply be a rebranded Kworld card of the
same model if the silk screen printed number (PC160-2T ver C) on the PCB
itself

So you should be able to get at least one tuner working under GNU/Linux

See http://www.linuxtv.ORG/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_PCI_Cards#KWorld

QUOTE
Dual DVB-T tuners, also known as PEAK DVB-T Dual tuner PCI (221544AGPK)

Working as single tuner card (at least) on 2008-06-05
UNQUOTE

where there are also links to download the necessary firmware for the tuner.

I have to report similar problems with a batch of Peak TV cards we are
using in some digital signage systems.

These cards have been running fine in 5 systems since Xmas last year,
a few weeks ago the customer reported that the signage software was
displaying an error after anywhere from 10-30 secs.

Checked them out and i am finding that both the signage software and
the TV tuner software that comes with the cards are throwing this
error.

If i leave the aerial disconnected the software operates quite
happily, once I plug the aerial in and a picture comes on screen after
a few seconds the software goes to error.

Cant help but feel that something in the way the signals are coming in
have changed to cause this software to fail like this.

Tried the dongles on various types of PC's but still get the error.

The message

from Steve - Bluush contains these words:

I have to report similar problems with a batch of Peak TV cards we are
using in some digital signage systems.

These cards have been running fine in 5 systems since Xmas last year,
a few weeks ago the customer reported that the signage software was
displaying an error after anywhere from 10-30 secs.

Checked them out and i am finding that both the signage software and
the TV tuner software that comes with the cards are throwing this
error.

If i leave the aerial disconnected the software operates quite
happily, once I plug the aerial in and a picture comes on screen after
a few seconds the software goes to error.

Cant help but feel that something in the way the signals are coming in
have changed to cause this software to fail like this.

Tried the dongles on various types of PC's but still get the error.

Welcome to my world! :-(

The inescapable conclusion is that some change to the way the DVB-T
signals are being broadcast has proved to be one straw too many for the
DTVR software supplied with the Jetway example of a rebranded Kworld PCI
adapter and used with the Peak Hardware rebranded USB stick on account
the supplied software was total and utter crap (just like the crap
Hypermedia Centre supplied with a dual tuner card which seems to work,
except when I tune to 'Dave' whereupon it immeditely causes winXP to
reboot! - TV card software is absolutely the worst example of crap
programming I've ever had the misfortune to try to rely upon).

Until the recent change on, it seems, the 13 September, DTVR, whilst a
little bit klunky to use, did actually do the job of reliably capturing
TV programs (aside from Channel Four's shenanigans with The Simpsons'
end credits around every third broadcast or so).

The weirdest thing is that none of the STBs in the house seem to be
suffering from this recent change. The very first DVB-T adapter I bought
(an Artec T1 usb1.1 box) does still work without throwing an error but
it is suffering nevertheless. In fact so much so as to be unreliable as
a recording device (but at least it still tries to soldier on rather
than bomb out).

All of which reminds me, I've got to retune that dual tuner setup again
(not the most reliable of processes - sometimes it works, sometimes it
fails).

BTW, Peak Hardware are simply a remarketing company selling rebadged
OEM products. If you can identify the original OEM of those adapters,
you might be in with a chance of a software update that may or may not
fix the problem.

When I was testing GBPVR with a Peak USB stick, it seemed to think it
was a Freecom 2 tuner, afaicr (it didn't help, GBPVR still failed to
produce a result).

--
Regards, John.

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