New aerial installation

"J G Miller" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:30:45 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

You'd be surprised how directional these transmitters can be.

I am not trying to claim that the transmissions cannot be very
directional.
That's just as well.


A check of

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/storeton.php

shows that a reflector has been installed at the back of the Storeton
Cymru
transmitting antennas to minimize signal eastwards.

We can regard the 'reflector' (actually a screen) as part of the
transmitting aerial. The radiation pattern will be calculated with the
effect of the screen included.

The question is with regard to them, how far away does one have to be
from the mast in the opposite direction to where they are pointing,
for the signal to become useless?
As I said, using Crosspool as an example, not very far at all. The biggest
factor with Crosspool is whether a large building happens to reflect the
signal back. If not, there's SFA.

Bill

Maybe those who have had more experience might like to comment on what
effects you get if you use a log vertically polarised. I never found them as
good that way around, so to speak. Also one trick for ignition noise was to
attempt to get the mounting location so that the building was in the way for
the road if its nice and close.
Does anyone actually watch the Welsh language stuff in Wales or anywhere
else?

Sad to say this, but most people I came across from those parts could not
speak welsh, or if they could preferred not to admit it!

Maybe if reception is dogged by interference, this is a case for Freesat.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Agzee" wrote in message
...
I would like to replace my existing aerial and cabling which has been
in use for many years.

From my location in Liverpool I have the option of using the following
transmitters:-

Moel-y-Parc (21 miles distance)

Storeton (7 miles distance)

Winter Hill (24 miles distance)


In the past the reception from Winter Hill was not very good due to
ghosting and a dark vertical band appearing on the TV screen,
according to a number of aerial riggers this problem arose from the
large 'water tower' sited at the local Ford factory (now Jaguar -
Halewood).

We then had an aerial aligned on the Moel-y-Parc transmitter for a few
years later switching to the Storeton transmitter which gave us
perfect reception and local news!

With the digital switch over are we likely to get a better signal
compared with the analogue reception we received from Winter Hill,
still wonder what the effect of the 'water tower' would be on a
digital signal.

I tend to think that I might be better staying with the Storeton
transmitter, I have checked some web sites to see what aerial is
recommended for Storeton after the digital switch over and the
recommendation is for a wideband aerial.

As I live adjacent to a main road which carries considerable traffic
into Liverpool I was thinking of getting a 'Log Periodic' aerial as
they appear to be less affected by passing traffic (dodgy ignition
systems). At the moment with my present aerial set-up the digital TV
picture can freeze when some of the local kids go past on their
scrambler type motorbikes!

If you dont think the 'Log Periodic' is suitable can you recommend a
'quality' wideband aerial?

Agzee

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:02:50 +0000, Brian Gaff asked:

Does anyone actually watch the Welsh language stuff in Wales or anywhere
else?

Yes Pobol-y-Cwm has quite a following even with non Cymraeg speakers
watching with English sub-titles.

People seem to be forgetting thought that Cymraeg language programming
is only on S4C and S4C2 but that there are English language regional
programs on BBC-1 Wales and BBC-2 Wales, eg "Week in, Week Out" and
"Dragon's Eye", with a greater degree of opt out from BBC-1/2 London
feed than in the English regions, hence more choice if you are able
to receive both sets of transmissions.

Also BBC-1/2 Wales still use BBC continuity staff unlike BBC-1/2 London.

Maybe if reception is dogged by interference, this is a case for
Freesat.

FTA Satellite is without doubt the best platform for getting maximum
choice of BBC regions, including satellite only BBC Alba and BBC HD,
and for stv and utv.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:27:36 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


Use the tx that gives the best field strength.I'd be surprised if impulse
noise was a problem after DSO.

Bill


I have located a few aerial riggers in our Local Yellow Pages who
guarantee that all installations are done using a 'Digital Terrestrial
Meter' which I believe is necessary for determining 'Field Strength'
etc.

After seeing a 'Post switchover signal strength list' which includes
Storeton and Winter Hill I have decided to persevere with my existing
aerial and its lousy RG6 cable until the switchover is complete.

http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051475

I have this fixation about a log periodic or log 40 after reading this
website article

http://www.aerialsandtv.com/atvschoi...als.html#XB10E


As mentioned previously I was plagued with problems when using Winter
Hill (analogue) due to secondary signals bounced off a rather large
'mushroom' shaped concrete water tower at Jaguar Halewood, with a
digital signal would this water tower still have an effect on the
incoming signal?

Agzee

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:25:28 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

The advantage of staying with Storeton is that following DSO you will
be able to continue to receive the current services at a better level
of signal plus the Cymraeg versions of PSB-1, PSB-2, and PSB-3 which
will start transmitting from this site in late 2009.


For the time being I will continue to use Storeton, although not
particularly interested in receiving any TV programmes in Welsh.

Think it is the wrong time to have an aerial installed, might be
better to wait until after the digital switch-over is completed and
the transmitters that I'm interested in - Storeton and Winter Hill -
are transmitting at full-power.

Agzee

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:02:50 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Maybe those who have had more experience might like to comment on what
effects you get if you use a log vertically polarised. I never found them as
good that way around, so to speak. Also one trick for ignition noise was to
attempt to get the mounting location so that the building was in the way for
the road if its nice and close.

I was wondering whether a log periodic or log 40 could be used
'vertically polarised' for Storeton, at least it should be ok for
Winter Hill.

Maybe if reception is dogged by interference, this is a case for Freesat.

We already have Freesat for main TV reception, bought a cheap kit from
B&Q which works well.

My personal Freeview setup is computer based.


Agzee

"Agzee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:27:36 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


Use the tx that gives the best field strength.I'd be surprised if impulse
noise was a problem after DSO.

Bill


I have this fixation about a log periodic or log 40 after reading this
website article

http://www.aerialsandtv.com/atvschoi...als.html#XB10E

I got a log 40 on the strength of that (over a group E), and it works very
well (not amplified). I also used the 'Google earth' method to line it up
which also seemed to work well (assuming Google is good at lining up its
photos). I am 23 miles from Black Hill and still get max strength on the
PVR's signal meter FWIW, but Black Hill is quite a powerful transmitter I
think. However Wolfbane says I would need an amplified high gain, but they
seem to err on the side of caution.

On the old group B aerial I also used to get a blip and loss of sound for a
second or two when the Central Heating went on which is now gone, but I did
also change the cable to PF100.

I also like the lower wind loading of the logs, as rattling in the wind
contributed to the old aerial bracket needing replaced.

Z

On 18/09/09 12:19, Zimmy wrote:

Wolfbane says I would need an amplified high gain, but they
seem to err on the side of caution.

Wolfbane also told me I'd need an amplified high gain, in the end I went
for an amplified log periodi, and needed to remove the amp.

I also like the lower wind loading of the logs, as rattling in the wind
contributed to the old aerial bracket needing replaced.

I used to get all manner of noises off the old aerial when it was windy,
it wasn't actually loose when I got up there to replace it, just the
mass at the top of the mast springing back and forth.

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
"J G Miller" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:44 +0000, Agzee wrote:

I tend to think that I might be better staying with the Storeton
transmitter
The advantage of staying with Storeton is that following DSO you will
be able to continue to receive the current services at a better level
of signal plus the Cymraeg versions of PSB-1, PSB-2, and PSB-3 which
will start transmitting from this site in late 2009.

It's unlikely that the Welsh channels will make to Liverpool. I would
have thought they'd be highly directional.

Yes, it will be. In any case why would anybody want the Welsh versions of
the PSBs, few people in Wales, fortunate enough to have a reception
choice, opt for them !


Indeed there was a big market in large aerials to get Winter Hill instead...

This resulted in a cartoon lampooning moves for more Welsh content this
which showed lots of houses with aerials pointing away from the hills, each
looking like a little "NO".


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

"Agzee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:27:36 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:
I have located a few aerial riggers in our Local Yellow Pages who
guarantee that all installations are done using a 'Digital Terrestrial
Meter'
I should bloody well hope they DO use a meter. Good grief!

which I believe is necessary for determining 'Field Strength'
etc.
You're not wrong.

As mentioned previously I was plagued with problems when using Winter
Hill (analogue) due to secondary signals bounced off a rather large
'mushroom' shaped concrete water tower at Jaguar Halewood, with a
digital signal would this water tower still have an effect on the
incoming signal?
No, unless you had really terrible multipath with no watchable reception.

Bill