You and Yours

wrote in message ...
On 18 Aug 2009 09:30:42 GMT
Christopher Hunter wrote:
Pioneer tuner. A quick listen showed that he was suffering from the over-
modulated "ethnic" pirate that was 600 kHz away from the Radio 4 he was
trying to hear. I put this tuner on the bench, and had a look at its
selectivity. It was truly horrible. The IF filtering was done with just
one cheap ceramic filter, so the acceptance bandwidth was close to 500
kHz. Modification to the IF strip resolved the problem, but it's poorly
designed, over-priced rubbish like that which will kill Band II.

Having been a radio listener in pirate radio splattered london for a good
part
of my life I can assure you that I've yet to come across any consumer FM
radio - be it kitchen radio, hifi tuner or car jobbie - that would not be
affected by a station 0.6 Mhz away from the one it was tuned to.

We have LOS to Holme Moss and get very strong FM signals from there.
Unfortunately we are a mile from the 1.6kW transmitter of Radio Hallam on
103.4. The effect of this is as follows:
Sony portable with RDS, cost about £60: cannot extend aerial without getting
Hallam across the whole band. With aerial folded reception of HM is
sometimes affected by Hallam
Old Panasonic ghetto blaster, cost £150: same as Sony above.
Small Sony portable, cost £13: occasional breakthough but normally OK.
Denon TU260LII fed from RF distribution system: no problems
Technics tuner fed from RF distribution syst: no problems
1970s Sony 'receiver' fed from RF distribution syst: no problems
Sony FM/DAB car radio: no FM problems
Volvo car radio: no problems
Ford car radio: no problems

Bill

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:08:59 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

The Pure Highway is exactly that - it uses a stick-on J aerial that's
amplified, and re-transmits FM stereo with RDS (it just shows "Pure
DAB" on the radio display.

I suppose you'll have to remove it (and its aerial) whenever you leave
your car, and wipe off the sucker marks. What a palaver.

Actually, no. The aerial stays in place, and so does the magnetic mount
for the receiver. "Installing" it takes 5 secs when you return to the
car (and it's only concealed because the stupid thieves that break into
cars tend to think it's a Chav-Nav). It retains the last chosen station,
has several presets, and works flawlessly.

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Radio 4 and You and Yours is top favourite for those of us who keep this
country prosperous, and fight against the odds to keep it reasonably
pleasant. People who have decent standards and morals. I mean 'Middle
England'.

Too right. But we draw the line at paying for students, obviously.

--
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:25:09 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I get very good FM reception quality here. I do apologise for my FM
reception quality being so good, and I'll look to install an attenuator
to bring it down to your level ASAP.

And can't accept that others may get better reception from DAB. BTW -
there's rather more to good FM reception than just signal level. I'm
surprised you didn't know this . Being such an expert on it.

Didn't you know? He "writes for a hi-fi magazine" so knows everything
there is to know about broadcasting, audio, radio signal propagation,
digital compression schemes, and any other topic that might be vaguely
related...

I'm quite happy to leave it to the individual to decide if the things
they listen to sound better *to them* on FM or DAB.

No you're not. You stick your oar in on DAB-related threads...

.... and repeatedly demonstrate what little grasp you have of the concepts
of broadcasting (or on reality, come to that).

Complete ********. You turn up whenever DAB is mentioned on any
newsgroup I read - and only then. You're obsessed.

The /really/ funny thing is that his obsession is based on a fundamental
lack of understanding, an unwillingness (or inability) to learn and a
Luddite sensibility that's 200 years too late...

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:12:34 +0000, boltar2003 wrote:

On 18 Aug 2009 09:57:12 GMT
Christopher Hunter wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:45:06 +0000, boltar2003 wrote: There are two
pirate multiplexes that have sprung up in France, so it's probably going
to happen here soon enough. The technology is actually quite simple.

Pirate DAB in France? They can't have many listeners! No one owns a DAB
radio over there.

Meant Belgium. Plot slightly lost due to lack of sleep.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:22:00 -0700, 2Bdecided wrote:

I think you're being a bit selective - the "much vaunted" £25 DAB radios
are junk too. The amplifier and speaker probably costs the same as in
the £3 FM radio.

I made no mention of the "£25 DAB radio", though I paid about that for
the two Pure boxes I've got here.

Radio 4 FM on an old Roberts radio and Radio 4 DAB on an Evoke-1 don't
sound that dissimilar, if the reception is OK on both...

Agreed, though the DAB will not suffer from the over-modulated pirate
next door.

...and on a really good hi-fi, the majority of stations on all platforms
are quite unlistenable - as are many modern CDs...

Again, mostly agreed. The processing used on FM is usually horrible (and
clipping ALWAYS adds distortion), but often, those same stations on DAB
have less aggressive processing, so are slightly easier on the ear.

...but there are varying degrees of "badness" and annoyance. It depends
on the individual station, but with reasonable reception, lots of FM
stations are quite acceptable, while the situation on DAB is somewhat
worse, the situation on the internet is somewhat better, but the
situation on some of the other supposedly higher bitrate platforms (DTT
and Dsat) is very variable.

The damn problem I have with "Internet Radio" is that it's seldom
convenient to try to use a computer in the car, in rooms other than my
office or in the garden. Also, the vast majority of "Internet Radio
Stations" are seriously bit-rate limited - bandwidth costs money!

On 18 Aug, 14:56, Christopher Hunter
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:22:00 -0700, 2Bdecided wrote:

...and on a really good hi-fi, the majority of stations on all platforms
are quite unlistenable - as are many modern CDs...

Again, mostly agreed. *The processing used on FM is usually horrible (and
clipping ALWAYS adds distortion), but often, those same stations on DAB
have less aggressive processing, so are slightly easier on the ear.

Depends on the station - the BBC one are approximately matched.
Commercial ones vary wildly, and sometimes throw extra transcoding in
the loop for DAB.

...but there are varying degrees of "badness" and annoyance. It depends
on the individual station, but with reasonable reception, lots of FM
stations are quite acceptable, while the situation on DAB is somewhat
worse, the situation on the internet is somewhat better, but the
situation on some of the other supposedly higher bitrate platforms (DTT
and Dsat) is very variable.

The damn problem I have with "Internet Radio" is that it's seldom
convenient to try to use a computer in the car, in rooms other than my
office or in the garden. *Also, the vast majority of "Internet Radio
Stations" are seriously bit-rate limited - bandwidth costs money!

http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=internet+radio

....not a computer in sight!

I'm heading down this route now that I'm in a place which lacks FM and
DAB, but it's not without pitfalls.

Cheers,
David.

"Christopher Hunter" wrote in
message

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:08:59 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

The Pure Highway is exactly that - it uses a stick-on J aerial
that's
amplified, and re-transmits FM stereo with RDS (it just shows
"Pure
DAB" on the radio display.

I suppose you'll have to remove it (and its aerial) whenever you
leave
your car, and wipe off the sucker marks. What a palaver.

Actually, no. The aerial stays in place, and so does the magnetic
mount
for the receiver. "Installing" it takes 5 secs when you return to
the
car (and it's only concealed because the stupid thieves that break
into
cars tend to think it's a Chav-Nav).


The issue is that you have to remove it from the car at all, which is
somethign that people would prefer to avoid doing.


It retains the last chosen station,
has several presets, and works flawlessly.


Does it work flawlessly even in areas with no DAB signal? It must be a
special receiver.


--
Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM

www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info

"It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via
internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I
believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to
come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a
window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:12:05 -0700, 2Bdecided wrote:

http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=internet+radio

...not a computer in sight!

I'm heading down this route now that I'm in a place which lacks FM and
DAB, but it's not without pitfalls.

Fine, but it still demands an interweb connection of some sort - either
wireless or wired, and my connection's a bit iffy in the car...

"Christopher Hunter" wrote in
message

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:25:09 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I get very good FM reception quality here. I do apologise for my
FM
reception quality being so good, and I'll look to install an
attenuator
to bring it down to your level ASAP.

And can't accept that others may get better reception from DAB.
BTW -
there's rather more to good FM reception than just signal level.
I'm
surprised you didn't know this . Being such an expert on it.

Didn't you know? He "writes for a hi-fi magazine" so knows
everything
there is to know about broadcasting, audio, radio signal
propagation,
digital compression schemes, and any other topic that might be
vaguely
related...


No, I know a lot about the subjects you mention because I spent 6
years full time at university studying engineering.

In contrast, your knowledge was found out as being completely lacking
in the first thread you'd posted on on this NG.

You also haven't explained yet how you can both be a retired
broadcasting engineer AND broadcast DAB daily. I would be incredibly
interested to hear how these mutually exclusive things could happen
simultaneously. Care to enlighten us, Christopher?


I'm quite happy to leave it to the individual to decide if the
things
they listen to sound better *to them* on FM or DAB.

No you're not. You stick your oar in on DAB-related threads...

... and repeatedly demonstrate what little grasp you have of the
concepts
of broadcasting (or on reality, come to that).


Care to provide a single example relevant to digital radio where my
knowlege is lacking?


Complete ********. You turn up whenever DAB is mentioned on any
newsgroup I read - and only then. You're obsessed.

The /really/ funny thing is that his obsession is based on a
fundamental
lack of understanding, an unwillingness (or inability) to learn and
a
Luddite sensibility that's 200 years too late...


Luddite sensibility? That'll be why I'm an advocate of Internet radio,
eMBMS, DVB-T2 and multicast and I think DAB is crap because it's
completely outdated then.



--
Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM

www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info

"It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via
internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I
believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to
come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a
window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report