Wait for Built-In Tuners or Buy Now Plus what about DVI and Computer Hookups

Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?

Steve wrote:

Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?

You will always be able to buy a monitor with a separate receiver. If
you know that a integrated set has a 5th generation receiver built in
there should be no problem. There are none now.

(Steve) wrote:

Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

Even if integrated receivers were plentiful and cheap, I would prefer
separate tuners and display, at least for the primary, large-screen
display. The tuners available now are not mature in features,
operability or even reliability, and I wouldn't want to be locked into
the one that came with an expensive display.

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

If you're getting good analog reception now, chances are you can get
good digital reception as well, but go to www.antennaweb.org and plug
in your zip (9-digit or street address is best) to see what's
available in your area, how far away and in what direction. If
reception is difficult you might want to wait for the 5th generation
receivers Bob Miller says will start to appear in a few months. I
have gangbusters reception on all local digital broadcasts, including
a low power one, but I have friends a few miles away who are not so
lucky. Maybe you know someone who'll loan you a digital receiver for
a test. Most, probably all, can be set to output NTSC, so you don't
need an HD display to see what you can get.

Most HD receivers handle two formats: over-the-air (OTA, a.k.a. ATSC)
and DirecTV, OTA and Dish Network, OTA and cable (QAM), etc. The
earlier QAM receivers handle only unscrambled cable, which MAY include
the local broadcast stations, possibly some advertising channels and
probably not much else you'd care to watch. Some recent receivers
have a CableCard slot, allowing you to rent a CableCard from your
cable company (typically under $2.00/mo.) and then receive whatever
digital cable programs you subscribe to.

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?

DVI and HDMI cables use different connectors, but they are similar
ways to send digital video from a tuner to a display. There are
adaptors to convert between them. HDMI can also carry audio, which
will become very handy when the digital equivalents of A/V receivers
start to appear. HDCP (high definition copy protection) works with
either cable type to make sure you can only make the kinds of copies
the content providers want to allow you to make. I am not aware of
any type of recorder that accepts either DVI or HDMI input.

There is one other way to make an HD connection: component, which
converts the signal to analog and feeds it over 3 cables. All
displays except CRTs must convert it back to digital, resulting in
some loss of quality.

We're used to being able to record the shows we can't watch when they
air, either with a VCR or a hard drive recorder. If we want to record
several shows at once, we can buy several VCRs; they're cheap. But
most VCRs can't record HD, and you won't be happy with their playback
on a large screen. So you need a way to record HD, and right now
there are basically two: hard drive or D-VHS. And, since the MPAA has
done everything in its considerable power to make recording as
difficult as possible short of outlawing it altogether, you basically
need a recorder integrated with each separate tuner. A few allow
archiving programs to D-VHS over Firewire, but most do not, so you
have to start erasing things when the hard drive fills up. Figure
about $1000 per HD receiver/hard drive recorder combination, although
prices are dropping already.

I don't expect D-VHS to ever become popular, and it will disappear
when something better comes along (probably a writeable HD DVD format
or very cheap hard drives), but right now it's the only game in town
for long-term HD storage.

Whether you get a display with or without an integrated tuner, try to
get as many HD inputs as possible, because you'll probably soon start
collecting devices to connect to them.

Del Mibbler

"Keeper of the Purple Twilight" wrote in message
news:2004090522101650073%[email protected]
On 2004-09-05 21:33:49 -0500, Bob Miller said:

You will always be able to buy a monitor with a separate receiver. If you
know that a integrated set has a 5th generation receiver built in there
should be no problem. There are none now.

What does it mean, "5th generation receiver"?

http://broadcastengineering.com/news..._dtv_receiver/


--
"No urban night is like the night [in NYC]...here is our poetry, for we
have pulled down the stars to our will."
- Ezra Pound, poet and critic, 9/18/1912, reflecting on New York City

Del Mibbler wrote in message . ..
(Steve) wrote:

Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

Even if integrated receivers were plentiful and cheap, I would prefer
separate tuners and display, at least for the primary, large-screen
display. The tuners available now are not mature in features,
operability or even reliability, and I wouldn't want to be locked into
the one that came with an expensive display.

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

If you're getting good analog reception now, chances are you can get
good digital reception as well, but go to www.antennaweb.org and plug
in your zip (9-digit or street address is best) to see what's
available in your area, how far away and in what direction. If
reception is difficult you might want to wait for the 5th generation
receivers Bob Miller says will start to appear in a few months. I
have gangbusters reception on all local digital broadcasts, including
a low power one, but I have friends a few miles away who are not so
lucky. Maybe you know someone who'll loan you a digital receiver for
a test. Most, probably all, can be set to output NTSC, so you don't
need an HD display to see what you can get.

Most HD receivers handle two formats: over-the-air (OTA, a.k.a. ATSC)
and DirecTV, OTA and Dish Network, OTA and cable (QAM), etc. The
earlier QAM receivers handle only unscrambled cable, which MAY include
the local broadcast stations, possibly some advertising channels and
probably not much else you'd care to watch. Some recent receivers
have a CableCard slot, allowing you to rent a CableCard from your
cable company (typically under $2.00/mo.) and then receive whatever
digital cable programs you subscribe to.

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?

DVI and HDMI cables use different connectors, but they are similar
ways to send digital video from a tuner to a display. There are
adaptors to convert between them. HDMI can also carry audio, which
will become very handy when the digital equivalents of A/V receivers
start to appear. HDCP (high definition copy protection) works with
either cable type to make sure you can only make the kinds of copies
the content providers want to allow you to make. I am not aware of
any type of recorder that accepts either DVI or HDMI input.

There is one other way to make an HD connection: component, which
converts the signal to analog and feeds it over 3 cables. All
displays except CRTs must convert it back to digital, resulting in
some loss of quality.

We're used to being able to record the shows we can't watch when they
air, either with a VCR or a hard drive recorder. If we want to record
several shows at once, we can buy several VCRs; they're cheap. But
most VCRs can't record HD, and you won't be happy with their playback
on a large screen. So you need a way to record HD, and right now
there are basically two: hard drive or D-VHS. And, since the MPAA has
done everything in its considerable power to make recording as
difficult as possible short of outlawing it altogether, you basically
need a recorder integrated with each separate tuner. A few allow
archiving programs to D-VHS over Firewire, but most do not, so you
have to start erasing things when the hard drive fills up. Figure
about $1000 per HD receiver/hard drive recorder combination, although
prices are dropping already.

I don't expect D-VHS to ever become popular, and it will disappear
when something better comes along (probably a writeable HD DVD format
or very cheap hard drives), but right now it's the only game in town
for long-term HD storage.

Whether you get a display with or without an integrated tuner, try to
get as many HD inputs as possible, because you'll probably soon start
collecting devices to connect to them.

Del Mibbler


And to answer the question about getting HDTV over cable, go to your
cable website, which should have info. In almost all cases, you will
use the cable box supplied by your cable company, which typically is
part of a digital package. Then what you get and whether it's free or
extra depends on the cable system.

Decide what kind of programming you will purchase first. If you're sticking
with your cable, it would be nice to have a built-in tuner. Cable boxes
(none that I know of) do not have an input for your antenna. OTOH, Direct
and Dish HD receivers have a coax input for your antenna, and put your local
digital/HD channels right in your program guide with your satellite
channels. If your cable offers HD, find out which kind of connector(s) they
use on their HD boxes. Then go in the store and purchase a widescreen set
which has the input(s) you need (either HDMI - audio/video combined, or
DVI - video only). These, of course, give you a slightly better picture
than component video inputs, but all 3 will give you HDTV via cable or
satellite. Your current antenna should work just fine for HDTV, depending
on your terrain, etc. The difference between analog and digital TV signals
is that in analog you get a "snowy" picture if the antenna isn't strong
enough, or pointed in the wrong direction. With digital, you either get a
crystal clear picture, or pixelation and breakup/pausing type of video.
There is no "special" HD antenna, it's a standard VHF or (more likely) UHF
or combo antenna. Find out if your locals broadcast in UHF or VHF, and
you'll be more informed if that old antenna will work.


"Steve" wrote in message
om...
Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?

The built in tuners will be mostly off air only and may offer less
features than standalone DTV tuners.

Even if the TV has one, you will end up paying for it weather you use it
or not, so you may be ahead by skipping the integrated model unless you
dislike the though of a settop box.

------------------------------------

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http://www.digitalinsurrection.com




Steve wrote:
Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?

You're sort of putting the cart before the horse.
That is, with HDTV, it all begins with the programming,
not with the hardware. The hardware will be a fallout
of what prog is available, and how that prog is provided
to your particular location. Since 90% of prog
is OTA, start with finding out what you can get OTA.
Antennaweb.org is semi useful, at least it's a starting point.
But be advised that it can be extremely misleading.
Don't assume that everything it claims you can you will get,
and there will be channels you can get that aren't on their list.

Also, remember that a HDTV source is worthwhile only if you
can record it for later playback, and do so cheaply.
There are cheap add-in cards for your computer that
tune/record HDTV progs onto your harddisk, but they
can only record OTA and cable, they can't do satellite.

I was in your position a year ago. I wanted to get into HDTV,
but didn't want to spend lots of money just to find out that
my location (50 miles from transmitter) would prevent me from
receiving OTA HDTV. So, I "borrowed" a ATSC set top box
from Sears, bought a $50 antenna (channel Master 4228), and with that
low cash outlay I determined experimentally that I could get 5
digital stations (4 of which were HD). I used my computers
monitor as an HDTV display, so that was free. I got the set top box
from sears cause I knew I could return it for a full refund,
so that was, "borrowed".

Any HDTV will have a DVI input for you to connect your
computer's vid card. Your video card will also have a VGA output
which will connect to most (but not all) HD sets.
By all means, buy a HDTV set from a retailer who will give you
a 30 day trial period, that is, will let you bring it back for a full
refund. You will NOT see many of the problems with these sets
by viewing what retailers typically show in their showrooms .
They typically use a DVD as a program source to a HDTV. This is
illogical cause all DVD's are low definition.
The ONLY way to properly evaluate a HDTV set is to critically
view HDTV primetime progs, such as CSI, LAw and Order,
JAG, NCIS, etc. and you will never see these progs in any retailers
showroom. As much as I like my DLP set,
it was only by viewing these progs that I discovered the glaring
weakness of DLP technology. It would never show up on
brightly lit sporting events or low definition DVDs, or demo loops
you see at the retailers.

Jeff B

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 16:25:02 GMT, Jeff B wrote:

I got the set top box
from sears cause I knew I could return it for a full refund,
so that was, "borrowed".

LOL... come on man, be cool and at least hold onto it for 6 months
before you return it. Sears whacks us with a chargeback if you return
it before 6 months, so next time you "borrow" from us, please don't
come in ranting and raving about "Your Satisfaction Is Guaranteed!"
until your salesman has deposited his/her cut into the bank, too...
LOL.

FWIW, I was in a local custom HDTV/Audio shop in my town yesterday,
and he's a high-end dealer that does more custom installations than
anyone else within 50 miles or so. While he can get/install numerous
brands, his main line is the Mitsubishi Diamond group. I asked him
about tuners and he said that 4 of the 5 major cable providers have
already signed on to the current tuner spec, and specifically... that
Comcast had worked very closely with Mitsubishi on the development of
the cablecard slot setup. His bottom line was that if you have
Comcast, you should be relatively comfortable with built-in tuners and
slot card tuners that are now current. He noted that any spec can
change... but that the units like Mits 52825/52725/52525 are all the
current spec. He also showed me his technical book on these three
models, and the two newer ones 725/825 feature the Diamond series
reduced glare screen, and the 825 has a built-in 120 Gig DVR.


On 5 Sep 2004 18:35:33 -0700, (Steve) wrote:

Oh! After years of stalling on my part, my wife shook loose my wallet
and is remodeling the whole family room. After days of being covered
in paint and spackle, we walked buy a display at a store with lots of
wonderful large screen TV's and so I made my move.......

I might actually have convinced here we should buy one, but despite
being an computer engineer for 20 years, I'd have to say C programming
is a lot easier to understand than the current set of television
options.

We were just about to buy one, when I read that the FCC is requiring
all sets later this year to have built-in HDTV tuners? Is this really
true? If so, then it would seem to be incredibly wasteful to buy now,
if the tuner's will become commodity items that cost next to nothing?
(i.e. you used to pay $200 for a good ethernet card, now their built
into most machines, and you can buy an extra one for $10)

I have a pretty nice antenna on my roof, and we have a low-end cable
package as well

We don't have digital cable, and we really don't want to spend the
money on that.

So if I wait until tuners are built-in will I be able to use my stodgy
old cable service to receive HDTV. Or can I at least use my antenna?

Also, which types of connections would allow the DVI output of my
computer's video card to be displayed on the HDTV. I see references to
HDMCP and HDMI (spelling?) but I'm don't understand if they are pin
compatible with DVI?