survivors 1975-77

Roderick Stewart wrote:
In article , Steve Terry wrote:
In a situation like the one depicted in Survivors, hydro energy might very
well be renewable, but the machinery necessary to extract it certainly
would
not be, because the industrial infrastructure that could maintain and
replace
it would be gone. We've become accustomed to living in a throwaway society
because there is always a replacement for something that breaks, but it
would
be sheer folly to depend on anything we couldn't replace when it wore out.
Rod.


Engineering skills would have to be rediscovered and taught, but in the
short term existing hydroelectric dams fortunately need little maintenance.
With multiple generators and turbines, even if several fail there's still a
lot
of redundancy left.

Even if, by pure fluke, out of the fraction of the population left over, the
tiny percentage that knew how to run a power station (do you?) just happened
to find their way to them (How? on foot? on horseback), they'd realise that it
was only a stopgap. There would be no hope of repairing or replacing anything.
You might be able to teach the next generation how to tend a generator, but
without an upbringing in a technological world they'd have an increasingly
limited understanding of how it worked, eventually just knowing what switches
to press to make it work. (This is, after all, the extent of most people's
understanding of technology now). As little as one generation down the line,
explanations in scientific terminology would be meaningless mumbo-jumbo to a
rural society with no laboratories to demonstrate any of it - just stuff the
older people would expect you to memorise to be allowed to tend the great
machine. Within three or four generations, if it was still working, they'd be
worshipping the thing.

Then it would break down.

Rod.

It wouldn't last that long anyway - the hydro stations and power
generation generally take a load of people to tend and maintain the
equipment, not just on site but all those substations etc. Given there
would only be a few survivors - even if they all congregated in a
cleaned up town there would be too much electricity generated and it'd
need to be transmitted to the grid. It'd fail without the army of bods
to maintain it daily.

So we are back to portable generators, either small ones that you see on
campsites use or big ones like the military have or like you see on
Motorway projects. There are loads of them , find a laod of new ones and
store them properly and that'll be power for the next 50yrs , if the
fuel keeps ( diesel should be the option then it'll still run on poor
diesel). No reason to believe that if they weren't stored properly in
the pacakging that they wouldn't be OK in 50 yrs. I've seen VW engines
from the 60's new old stock still in plastic on pallets found in a
warehouse, with fuel and electrics fitted they were perfect.

No good for the very long term I suppose, they'd need to be making
windmills or water wheels in the meantime.

sirblob2 wrote in news:b4eb64bb-e1fc-439a-aded-
:

i like the fact that there's a convict here, whereas the last time i'm
quite sure charles was only a reproduction addict and not an ex-con.


The convict character is not Charles, he is Tom Price orginally prtrayed by
Talfryn Thomas. When first encountered he is living as a thieving tramp and
this seems to have been his lot before the epedemic.

Also considering his shifty behaviour and the final fate of his character it
would have been quite plausible that he'd been in prison in the past, it just
wasn't really a necessary plot device considering how he was used.

HTH

--
Mr. Anonymongous

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Terry wrote:
The last hundred years of knowledge is stored on many mediums
from books to hard drives to USB sticks, it's not all going to get lost.

How long do you estimate a USB stick or HD would survive? In the context
of books, not a lot. Same with all electronic storage media.


OK centres of learning based on books would have to be developed,
as the monastery's were in the middle ages with people coming from miles
around to study

Alfred the Great after many setbacks defeated the Danes around AD870
because as prince of Wessex he studied as a monk and remembered the
rare books they had on Roman battle tactics, which he then used to win

Steve Terry

In article , Steve Terry wrote:
The last hundred years of knowledge is stored on many mediums
from books to hard drives to USB sticks, it's not all going to get lost.

How long do you estimate a USB stick or HD would survive? In the context
of books, not a lot. Same with all electronic storage media.


OK centres of learning based on books would have to be developed,
as the monastery's were in the middle ages with people coming from miles
around to study

Learning based on books has developed as society developed. However, in the
situation being envisaged, namely the sudden collapse of society as we know
it, people wouldn't be interested in "developing" anything for some time,
probably many years. There'd be widespread panic as people accustomed to our
modern technology-based way of life suddenly found themselves in a situation
they had no idea how to cope with, their most pressing concerns being fresh
water, food and warmth, all things that we take for granted. The towns would
be full of rotting corpses and the roads probably blocked by cars belonging
to people trying to get away from them. Any survivors lucky enough to live in
a farm or other habitable place in the country would probably defend it to
the death, preferably yours. Nine tenths of everybody you knew would have
gone, and there'd be no means of communicating with anybody further than
shouting distance, so you wouldn't know which of your former friends and
relatives were still alive, or where they were. You'd suddenly feel very
alone. Believe me, books, never mind fuel and generators to power the
technology needed to read a hard drive or a USB stick, would be the last
thing on anybody's mind for a very long time.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message .myzen.co.uk...
In article , Steve Terry wrote:
The last hundred years of knowledge is stored on many mediums
from books to hard drives to USB sticks, it's not all going to get
lost.

How long do you estimate a USB stick or HD would survive? In the
context
of books, not a lot. Same with all electronic storage media.

OK centres of learning based on books would have to be developed,
as the monastery's were in the middle ages with people coming from miles
around to study

Learning based on books has developed as society developed. However, in
the
situation being envisaged, namely the sudden collapse of society as we
know
it, people wouldn't be interested in "developing" anything for some time,
probably many years. There'd be widespread panic as people accustomed to
our
modern technology-based way of life suddenly found themselves in a
situation
they had no idea how to cope with, their most pressing concerns being
fresh
water, food and warmth, all things that we take for granted. The towns
would
be full of rotting corpses and the roads probably blocked by cars
belonging
to people trying to get away from them. Any survivors lucky enough to live
in
a farm or other habitable place in the country would probably defend it to
the death, preferably yours. Nine tenths of everybody you knew would have
gone, and there'd be no means of communicating with anybody further than
shouting distance, so you wouldn't know which of your former friends and
relatives were still alive, or where they were. You'd suddenly feel very
alone. Believe me, books, never mind fuel and generators to power the
technology needed to read a hard drive or a USB stick, would be the last
thing on anybody's mind for a very long time.
Rod.


Except for the USB sticks and generators, it sounds just like Europe after
the Black Death of the mid 15th century, except we have infinitely more
knowledge now

You brought up a good point about "Communication", in the film "The Postman"
A post apocalyptic America recovers because Kevin Costner inadvertently
reinvents the pony express mail, linking up isolated communities which
eventually restores the USA and civilisation (at least their idea of it)

Shortwave Transceivers are located in every Radio Amateurs house,
all it would take is a copy of the yearly callbook (like a phone directory)
to be able to locate and recover all that equipment

Steve Terry

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message .myzen.co.uk...
Learning based on books has developed as society developed. However, in
the
situation being envisaged, namely the sudden collapse of society as we
know
it, people wouldn't be interested in "developing" anything for some time,
probably many years. There'd be widespread panic as people accustomed to
our
modern technology-based way of life suddenly found themselves in a
situation
they had no idea how to cope with, their most pressing concerns being
fresh
water, food and warmth, all things that we take for granted. The towns
would
be full of rotting corpses and the roads probably blocked by cars
belonging
to people trying to get away from them. Any survivors lucky enough to live
in
a farm or other habitable place in the country would probably defend it to
the death, preferably yours. Nine tenths of everybody you knew would have
gone, and there'd be no means of communicating with anybody further than
shouting distance, so you wouldn't know which of your former friends and
relatives were still alive, or where they were. You'd suddenly feel very
alone. Believe me, books, never mind fuel and generators to power the
technology needed to read a hard drive or a USB stick, would be the last
thing on anybody's mind for a very long time.

Rod.
--
Except that reality simply doesn't follow that model. Very few people
actually panic in an emergency, the overwhelming reaction is denial and an
attempt to cling to what they know for as long as possible. Except where the
threat is immediate and certain, such as a hurricane approaching a coastal
city and they are being urged to evacuate by government, most people stay
where they are, even in war when their city is being devastated by bombing.
They will seek whatever shelter they can but most don't flee. Add to that
the government's likely closure of many transport routes to maintain access
for military and other official transport, and preserve fuel, and the idea
of vast stretches of motorway or other main road blocked by vehicles is
unlikely, though urban roads might become gridlocked.

After the initial die-off, when survivors have exhausted what supplies they
have and the stench of decay becomes too much, there will an exodus though
never complete; some with less sensitivity and stronger stomachs will always
stay to take advantage of the resources in the city. Having lots of rotting
corpses around isn't actually as big a health risk as is usually thought,
provided you take reasonable hygiene precautions of yourself, your immediate
living area and especially any food and water you use.

And whether in city, town or farm, when immediate needs for food, water and
fuel are satisfied, there will always be time for other things. There will
also be older and less fit survivors in groups, who will either have useful
knowledge or who will become the researchers and teachers, as is the case in
'primitive' societies all over the world, while the younger and stronger
ones become the hunter-gatherers or gardner-farmers. And as always happens,
leaders will emerge, some benign others self-serving, who will gather and
direct groups. There will be some individuals who will revert to a lone,
feral existence, many of them with severe psychological problems, but there
has never been a situation, even in the worst of circumstances, where it has
been a total one-on-one dog fight for the last sip of water or scrap of
food. People adapt.

In article ,
Steve Terry wrote:
You brought up a good point about "Communication", in the film "The
Postman" A post apocalyptic America recovers because Kevin Costner
inadvertently reinvents the pony express mail, linking up isolated
communities which eventually restores the USA and civilisation (at least
their idea of it)

Shortwave Transceivers are located in every Radio Amateurs house, all it
would take is a copy of the yearly callbook (like a phone directory) to
be able to locate and recover all that equipment

And electricity, of course.

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Terry wrote:
You brought up a good point about "Communication", in the film "The
Postman" A post apocalyptic America recovers because Kevin Costner
inadvertently reinvents the pony express mail, linking up isolated
communities which eventually restores the USA and civilisation (at least
their idea of it)

Shortwave Transceivers are located in every Radio Amateurs house, all it
would take is a copy of the yearly callbook (like a phone directory) to
be able to locate and recover all that equipment

And electricity, of course.

That's located in one of the millions of portable generators kicking around,
also most Amateur radio sets operate on 12 volts DC so they can be used
in cars, so you'd only need a means of charging car batteries

Steve Terry

In article ,
Steve Terry wrote:
Shortwave Transceivers are located in every Radio Amateurs house, all
it would take is a copy of the yearly callbook (like a phone
directory) to be able to locate and recover all that equipment

And electricity, of course.

That's located in one of the millions of portable generators kicking
around, also most Amateur radio sets operate on 12 volts DC so they can
be used in cars, so you'd only need a means of charging car batteries

Car batteries have a limited life. Very much so if left to go flat.
As regards gennys most would only run them when needed. So you'd need to
set a time for this radio communication 'hour'. Assuming you can still
tell the time, of course. ;-)

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Terry wrote:
Shortwave Transceivers are located in every Radio Amateurs house, all
it would take is a copy of the yearly callbook (like a phone
directory) to be able to locate and recover all that equipment
And electricity, of course.

That's located in one of the millions of portable generators kicking
around, also most Amateur radio sets operate on 12 volts DC so they can
be used in cars, so you'd only need a means of charging car batteries

Car batteries have a limited life. Very much so if left to go flat.
As regards gennys most would only run them when needed. So you'd need to
set a time for this radio communication 'hour'. Assuming you can still
tell the time, of course. ;-)


But with literally millions of them , charging them regularly you'd have
a limitless supply for many decades. I've had batteries last nearly ten
years in my old vans . Get a new one off the shelf in a car parts place
, charge it up , use it a few hours a day and it'll last a decade I reckon.