survivors 1975-77

Steve Terry wrote:
"Ophelia" wrote in message
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"Steve Terry" wrote in message
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"Ophelia" wrote in message
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"Steve Terry" wrote in message
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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Steve Terry wrote:

A friend used to run his Peugeot 405 1.9 diesel on up to 100%
cooking oil
no problem at all, lots of 1990's Peugeots still around.

I've seen people buy cooking oil by the gallon and pour it into
the tank while still *IN* the supermarket carpark.

A couple of years ago i was in Brighton Marina Asdas and the guy
in front
at the checkout had a trolley with 20 bottles of 3 litre cooking
oil. I said to him "You have a serious chip addiction" ;-)

Not rocket science to figure out what he was up to

My son does this too

He's addicted to Chips too!!
It's an epidemic

lol

I blame McCain's, who are working on developing more addictive chips
made from GM potatoes with human DNA added, (not kidding)

Good grief!!! I am pleased to say I never use frozen chips and now I
could never be persuaded!

But the potatoes you might use in the future could be the same GM crop

You are just trying to put me off me spuds! Aren't ya???

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:10:02 -0700 (PDT), sirblob2
wrote:

clcking in at what must be 27 hours, this uk tv series certainly isnt
for the anti sofa brigade.. its bloody great thats what it be.

I certainly enjoyed series 1, and the first episode "The Forth
Horsemen" is one of the best first episode of any series I have seen,
a fantastic 50 minutes.


i havent seen the remake, thou i heard it be arsefest.
I quite enjoyed it myself - I'm quite looking forward to series 2

-
XBox 360 GT: Broton69

--
ButIstillneedtoknowwhat'sinthere! Thekeytoanysecurity
systemishowit'sdesigned! Thatdependsonwhyitwasdesigned!
Ihavetoknowwhatwhoeverdesigneditwastryingtoprotect !
(Blakes 7, City on the Edge of the World - Vila in typical panic mode)

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:33:08 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:
There is a fascinating book "Guns, Germs and Steel: A short history of
everybody for the last 13,000 years" by Jared Diamond.

It takes a scientific look at why the industrial revolution and other
major developments occurred in Europe and led to the dominance of
Europeans.

Obviously the reason is the racial superiority of the inhabitants of that
area.

The tone of the book at times seemed to argue the opposite, that Europe
rose to the top despite the quality of the inhabitants

--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'

In article , David
wrote:

"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...

A new society would have to congregate around controllable environments
such as islands, Jersey and Guernsey being a good choice, both have ports
that small fuel tankers could dock at, and both have good growing land.

Highly inhabited islands already have the infrastructure for independent
life,
ports, airports, water supply, power, agriculture or fishing, hospitals,
etc

Countries with hydroelectric mountain lakes like Spain, and Switzerland
would have a natural power advantage

Steve Terry

and don't forget the hydro in Norway, and Scotland, that was a major theme
in Series 3 of Survivors. I often wonder why we aren't concentrating on
developing our use of hydro as a renewable energy source, rather than wind;
using more of the existing lakes or creating new reservoirs in locations
with enough drop afterwards. There must be some suitable locations of which
we haven't made use and the additional water supplies would be appreciated
at times too.

Everything that can be damned either has been, or the people down
stream would get very upset not having any water. Unlike wind and
solar, hydro IS a limited energy source as well as one rather damaging
to the environment.

--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'

"Edster" wrote in message
...
"Steve Terry" wrote:
"sirblob2" wrote in message
...
snip
But it was so implausible, what had happed to all the countries
stored resources?
At least the remake arsefest got it right about raiding supermarket
warehouses to get supplies, and using pumps in petrol stations
to bring up fuel

In the original, they were fighting over half a dozen potatoes,
and brewing alcohol to fuel cars
Bleeding daft, even in 1975 there's enough stored resources
to keep the remaining 1% of the population supplied for years
Steve Terry

It's a while since I watched it, but I'm pretty sure they had that
argument in the original series -- why bother growing food when
there's enough tins left to feed everyone for the rest of their life,
and why use a hand plough when there's so many tractors liying around
doing nothing. It was so that they could learn the old skills so that
they could teach their children how to survive.

Also, all the stored recources would be heavily guarded by whoever
found them first, or would be in large cities full of rotting
corpses/typhoid, etc. Both topics that were covered in the original.


It should have occurred to the survivors to move to a controllable
island environment like Jersey where the bodies could be collected
and disposed of at sea, eliminating that problem.

"David" wrote in message
...

"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...

A new society would have to congregate around controllable environments
such as islands, Jersey and Guernsey being a good choice, both have ports
that small fuel tankers could dock at, and both have good growing land.

Highly inhabited islands already have the infrastructure for independent
life,
ports, airports, water supply, power, agriculture or fishing, hospitals,
etc

Countries with hydroelectric mountain lakes like Spain, and Switzerland
would have a natural power advantage
Steve Terry

and don't forget the hydro in Norway, and Scotland, that was a major theme
in Series 3 of Survivors. I often wonder why we aren't concentrating on
developing our use of hydro as a renewable energy source, rather than
wind; using more of the existing lakes or creating new reservoirs in
locations with enough drop afterwards. There must be some suitable
locations of which we haven't made use and the additional water supplies
would be appreciated at times too.

Franco did just that to Spain in the 1950's, he dictated that mountain lakes
should
be dammed for nationalised Hydro power making Spain electricity self
sufficient.
That's why Spains water and power are one company

It takes a gov with drive and vision to make it happen, if Franco was
running
Britain you can be sure the Seven estuary tidal power barrier would have
been built

Steve Terry

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:40:51 -0400, Invid Fan
wrote:

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:33:08 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:
There is a fascinating book "Guns, Germs and Steel: A short history of
everybody for the last 13,000 years" by Jared Diamond.

It takes a scientific look at why the industrial revolution and other
major developments occurred in Europe and led to the dominance of
Europeans.

Obviously the reason is the racial superiority of the inhabitants of that
area.

The tone of the book at times seemed to argue the opposite, that Europe
rose to the top despite the quality of the inhabitants

Indeed.

One puzzle the book addresses is why did China stop innovating. They
were technologically way ahead of the primitive people in Britain and
Europe.

It is a very long time since I read the book, but I seem to recall that
because China was so far ahead of everyone else they had no competitive
incentive to develop their technology any further and that Chinese
society became conformist.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message .myzen.co.uk...
In article , Col wrote:

I think humanity would survive, but not very many of us at first, and
it
would
take centuries before we attained anything resembling the
technology-based
society we have today.

You wonder what might happen though, if we were reduced to the
technological levels of medieval times. Would history follow a similar
path and eventually there would be another industrial revolution,
ultimately leading to a similar technology based society as we have
today.
Perhaps it wouldn't as all the easily accessible coal has long since
been worked out, the technology to deep mine simply wouldn't exist.
Maybe the industrial revolution was a 'one shot only' chance and
if we were ever reduced to a technological level less than that
we could never get back and we'd be forevever living like medieval
peasants at a subsistance level.

An interesting point. I'd thought we'd eventually return through a second
industrial revolution taking several hundred years just like the first,
but as
you point out, quite a lot of the early development of technology did
depend
on the easy availability of lots of energy. Second time around it wouldn't
be
so easy so you may be right. It makes you think what a tenuous thread the
whole of our existence hangs upon.

Thinking about it, we might be able to return to a rather primitive
form of industrialisation. We'd still have water power of course,
but more importantly we'd be still be able to make charcoal.
Early furnaces used charcoal so you'd still have industry of sorts.
Unfortunately you can't fuel a full-blown industrial revolution by
burning trees, so that might be as far advanced as we could get.

Col

In article , David wrote:
and don't forget the hydro in Norway, and Scotland, that was a major theme
in Series 3 of Survivors. I often wonder why we aren't concentrating on
developing our use of hydro as a renewable energy source, rather than wind;

In a situation like the one depicted in Survivors, hydro energy might very
well be renewable, but the machinery necessary to extract it certainly would
not be, because the industrial infrastructure that could maintain and replace
it would be gone. We've become accustomed to living in a throwaway society
because there is always a replacement for something that breaks, but it would
be sheer folly to depend on anything we couldn't replace when it wore out.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message .myzen.co.uk...
In article , Col wrote:

I think humanity would survive, but not very many of us at first, and
it
would
take centuries before we attained anything resembling the
technology-based
society we have today.

You wonder what might happen though, if we were reduced to the
technological levels of medieval times. Would history follow a similar
path and eventually there would be another industrial revolution,
ultimately leading to a similar technology based society as we have
today.
Perhaps it wouldn't as all the easily accessible coal has long since
been worked out, the technology to deep mine simply wouldn't exist.
Maybe the industrial revolution was a 'one shot only' chance and
if we were ever reduced to a technological level less than that
we could never get back and we'd be forevever living like medieval
peasants at a subsistance level.

An interesting point. I'd thought we'd eventually return through a second
industrial revolution taking several hundred years just like the first,
but as
you point out, quite a lot of the early development of technology did
depend
on the easy availability of lots of energy. Second time around it
wouldn't be
so easy so you may be right. It makes you think what a tenuous thread the
whole of our existence hangs upon.

Thinking about it, we might be able to return to a rather primitive
form of industrialisation. We'd still have water power of course,
but more importantly we'd be still be able to make charcoal.
Early furnaces used charcoal so you'd still have industry of sorts.
Unfortunately you can't fuel a full-blown industrial revolution by
burning trees, so that might be as far advanced as we could get.
Col

Nonsense, that could only happen if all collective knowledge was lost,
and the last time that happened was the fall of the roman empire,
leading to 800 years of the dark ages (in Europe anyway)

The last hundred years of knowledge is stored on many mediums
from books to hard drives to USB sticks, it's not all going to get lost.

Civilisation recovered relatively quickly from the black death of
the 14th century, resulting in better work conditions, pay, and rights
for remaining workers because of supply and demand

Steve Terry