survivors 1975-77

In article , Col wrote:

I think humanity would survive, but not very many of us at first, and it
would
take centuries before we attained anything resembling the technology-based
society we have today.

You wonder what might happen though, if we were reduced to the
technological levels of medieval times. Would history follow a similar
path and eventually there would be another industrial revolution,
ultimately leading to a similar technology based society as we have today.
Perhaps it wouldn't as all the easily accessible coal has long since
been worked out, the technology to deep mine simply wouldn't exist.
Maybe the industrial revolution was a 'one shot only' chance and
if we were ever reduced to a technological level less than that
we could never get back and we'd be forevever living like medieval
peasants at a subsistance level.

An interesting point. I'd thought we'd eventually return through a second
industrial revolution taking several hundred years just like the first, but as
you point out, quite a lot of the early development of technology did depend
on the easy availability of lots of energy. Second time around it wouldn't be
so easy so you may be right. It makes you think what a tenuous thread the
whole of our existence hangs upon.

Rod.
--
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On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:33:08 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

In article , Col wrote:

I think humanity would survive, but not very many of us at first, and it
would
take centuries before we attained anything resembling the technology-based
society we have today.

You wonder what might happen though, if we were reduced to the
technological levels of medieval times. Would history follow a similar
path and eventually there would be another industrial revolution,
ultimately leading to a similar technology based society as we have today.
Perhaps it wouldn't as all the easily accessible coal has long since
been worked out, the technology to deep mine simply wouldn't exist.
Maybe the industrial revolution was a 'one shot only' chance and
if we were ever reduced to a technological level less than that
we could never get back and we'd be forevever living like medieval
peasants at a subsistance level.

An interesting point. I'd thought we'd eventually return through a second
industrial revolution taking several hundred years just like the first, but as
you point out, quite a lot of the early development of technology did depend
on the easy availability of lots of energy. Second time around it wouldn't be
so easy so you may be right. It makes you think what a tenuous thread the
whole of our existence hangs upon.

It would not necessarily happen in this country. It could happen
elsewhere.

There is a fascinating book "Guns, Germs and Steel: A short history of
everybody for the last 13,000 years" by Jared Diamond.

It takes a scientific look at why the industrial revolution and other
major developments occurred in Europe and led to the dominance of
Europeans.

The review on this page at Amazon gives very brief outline:
http://tinyurl.com/m7ydpl

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...

"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...

"Ophelia" wrote in message
...

"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Steve Terry wrote:

A friend used to run his Peugeot 405 1.9 diesel on up to 100% cooking
oil
no problem at all, lots of 1990's Peugeots still around.

I've seen people buy cooking oil by the gallon and pour it into the
tank while still *IN* the supermarket carpark.

A couple of years ago i was in Brighton Marina Asdas and the guy in
front
at the checkout had a trolley with 20 bottles of 3 litre cooking oil.
I said to him "You have a serious chip addiction" ;-)

Not rocket science to figure out what he was up to

My son does this too

He's addicted to Chips too!!
It's an epidemic

lol

I blame McCain's, who are working on developing more addictive chips
made from GM potatoes with human DNA added, (not kidding)

Good grief!!! I am pleased to say I never use frozen chips and now I
could never be persuaded!

But the potatoes you might use in the future could be the same GM crop

Steve Terry

"Sofa - Spud" wrote in message
...
Steve Terry wrote:
"Ophelia" wrote in message
...
"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...
snip
A good idea would be to tap into the strategic reserve fuel pipes
that run alongside the grand union canal, as the pipes are air tight,
that fuel should last years

Good idea but who would know that? and how would they do it without it
being like those pipelines in Uganda where they just crack it open and put
a bucket under.


That's one way, but I'd follow the pipe until i found a valve

Buncefield in Hemel is one place it goes to, maybe the disaster
was caused by some lost Ugandans?

Steve Terry

"Invid Fan" wrote in message
...
In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart wrote:

In article , Ophelia wrote:
The problem is really in the nature and progression of the emergency.
In
Survivors the die-off was supposed to have been very rapid, over a
couple of
weeks as I remember, and anything from 99% - 99.99% depending on which
episode and which character's lines the figures appear in. That leaves
a lot
of resources for a small number of survivors. In a more likely scenario
a
progressively building emergency would have seen a rapid decline in
stocks
of both fuel and food due to panic buying and failure of the
manufacturing
and transport facilities, because of people off work sick or too afraid
to
go to work and become exposed, and perhaps problems with power supplies
due
to the same causes. The survivors would then have to have been a bit
more
inventive in where they got their supplies, though of course there are
alternatives.

Without maintenance, roads would become unusable in a few years, if they
really were empty to begin with as some seem to hope.

In Steven King's THE STAND motorcycles and bikes become the main mode
of transport early on, as they can get around or through most traffic
jams.
Chris Mack *quote under construction*


So he was a secret Mad Max fan?

Steve Terry

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message .myzen.co.uk...
In article , Ophelia wrote:
snip
The next generation, the ones born into a world without running water,
electricity, shops, or any manufacturing industry, would have to learn how
to
be farmers, but without the advantage of medieval children whose parents
had
centuries of experience behind them. These children's parents mostly
wouldn't
have a clue, and with no schools and everybody scavenging and fighting for
food, nobody would have had the time or the expertise to teach them to
read.

The disease that had reduced the population to a small fraction of its
former
value would be nothing compared with the secondary cull resulting from the
offspring of a mostly ignorant throwaway society suddenly having to rely
on
their own resources. You can't work things out from first principles if
you
don't even know what the first principles are.

I think humanity would survive, but not very many of us at first, and it
would
take centuries before we attained anything resembling the technology-based
society we have today.
Rod.


A new society would have to congregate around controllable environments
such as islands, Jersey and Guernsey being a good choice, both have ports
that small fuel tankers could dock at, and both have good growing land.

Highly inhabited islands already have the infrastructure for independent
life,
ports, airports, water supply, power, agriculture or fishing, hospitals, etc

Countries with hydroelectric mountain lakes like Spain, and Switzerland
would have a natural power advantage

Steve Terry

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:33:08 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:
There is a fascinating book "Guns, Germs and Steel: A short history of
everybody for the last 13,000 years" by Jared Diamond.

It takes a scientific look at why the industrial revolution and other
major developments occurred in Europe and led to the dominance of
Europeans.

Obviously the reason is the racial superiority of the inhabitants of that
area.

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:33:08 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:
There is a fascinating book "Guns, Germs and Steel: A short history of
everybody for the last 13,000 years" by Jared Diamond.

It takes a scientific look at why the industrial revolution and other
major developments occurred in Europe and led to the dominance of
Europeans.

Obviously the reason is the racial superiority of the inhabitants of that
area.
Bill

More to do with freedom of belief, after all the Spanish inquisition
was still chasing Galileo around Italy as late as 1640!

Causing migration of scientific intellectuals from orthodox southern Europe
to freedom of belief northern Europe

Steve Terry

In article , Steve Terry
wrote:

"Invid Fan" wrote in message
...
In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart wrote:

In article , Ophelia wrote:
The problem is really in the nature and progression of the emergency.
In
Survivors the die-off was supposed to have been very rapid, over a
couple of
weeks as I remember, and anything from 99% - 99.99% depending on which
episode and which character's lines the figures appear in. That leaves
a lot
of resources for a small number of survivors. In a more likely scenario
a
progressively building emergency would have seen a rapid decline in
stocks
of both fuel and food due to panic buying and failure of the
manufacturing
and transport facilities, because of people off work sick or too afraid
to
go to work and become exposed, and perhaps problems with power supplies
due
to the same causes. The survivors would then have to have been a bit
more
inventive in where they got their supplies, though of course there are
alternatives.

Without maintenance, roads would become unusable in a few years, if they
really were empty to begin with as some seem to hope.

In Steven King's THE STAND motorcycles and bikes become the main mode
of transport early on, as they can get around or through most traffic
jams.
Chris Mack *quote under construction*


So he was a secret Mad Max fan?

Or the other way around, if there's any connection (The Stand came out
in 1978, Mad Max 1979)

--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'

"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...

A new society would have to congregate around controllable environments
such as islands, Jersey and Guernsey being a good choice, both have ports
that small fuel tankers could dock at, and both have good growing land.

Highly inhabited islands already have the infrastructure for independent
life,
ports, airports, water supply, power, agriculture or fishing, hospitals,
etc

Countries with hydroelectric mountain lakes like Spain, and Switzerland
would have a natural power advantage

Steve Terry

and don't forget the hydro in Norway, and Scotland, that was a major theme
in Series 3 of Survivors. I often wonder why we aren't concentrating on
developing our use of hydro as a renewable energy source, rather than wind;
using more of the existing lakes or creating new reservoirs in locations
with enough drop afterwards. There must be some suitable locations of which
we haven't made use and the additional water supplies would be appreciated
at times too.