Dave's new TV antenna...day 1

On May 2, 1:09*am, sorry-spammers ""w9wi\"@(sorry-spammers)" wrote:
whosbest54 wrote:
Dave, some additional options to consider:

- Separate antennas and an A/B switch, with a rescan whenever you switch.

I would suggest the rescan shouldn't be necessary on most receivers --
usually you can manually enable channels that don't come in on a scan.
So you do a scan on one antenna, then make a list of the RF channels
that should come in on the other antenna and manually enable those
channels. *In most cases it will automatically program in the correct
virtual channels the first time you punch up those RF channels.

--

Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View, TN *EM66
The "shoulds" can be very difficult with modern electronics. In years
past, there were plenty of TVs and VCRs that could take direct entry
of a channel, but had remotes with no keypad, so, you had to get a
keypad remote to allow direct entry. My DTV reciever has a keypad,
and it allows direct entry, but only on analog; at least according to
instructions. However, I accidentally discovered the procedure for
direct entry of DTV channels. One may enter either RF or Virtual
channel number, and, if there is signal sufficient to process, the
picture comes up under the Virtual number; one can even enter sub-
channel designations. The manufacturer has nothing in its litterature
about this, possibly because the procedure is complicated and the set
was clearly intended for transition period use, with analog maybe as
the more used . Anyway, I rarely go to a a station using up and down
anymore, as direct entry is much faster. I thought this might be
useful for anybody that hasn't fully "explored" possibilities.

On May 1, 6:01*pm, swangdb wrote:
On Apr 30, 2:15*pm, swangdb wrote:

I bought a Channel Master 4228HD antenna this week and tested it some
today. *I connected it to a short pole and put the pole in an umbrella
mount on the deck. *

The antenna is still on my deck.

Today I spent time rotating it slightly and rescanning for channels
each time. *Small changes make huge differences.

There are two channels that come in no matter what. *One is from
Columbus, GA and the other is from Montgomery, AL. *These are 14 and
15. *I guess the lower the better on UHF, though for all I know they
may have the strongest signals in the area.

There is one spot where I get ABC from Columbus (Channel 47, though it
claims to be 9) and CW somewhere nearby on 22. *However, the
subchannel for 22 is ABC from Montgomery. *Weird. *A degree or two in
either direction and they vanish.

I went through the channels one at a time and checked their
strengths. *There are 11 channels that have weak signals that I can't
receive. *Time to raise the antenna.

This is a really high hill near my house and there is a house on top
of the hill. *I've visited a few times and it's way above the tree
line. * I bet the reception up there would be great.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You do not have to rescan every time you move or switch antennas.
Once you find which stations will come in you can manual program them
in and they will be there regardless of antenna position. Say, for
example, you auto-scan with your antenna facing north. Those stations
will be programmed in. Then you want stations from the west. Aim the
antenna, and autoscan to find whats available. Then you lose the
north stations. Now, manually program what you had facing north, and
then during subsequent antenna aimings you will not have to keep
reprogramming the converter.

On May 2, 5:24*am, robinlos wrote:
On May 2, 1:09*am, sorry-spammers ""w9wi\"@(sorry-spammers)" wrote:



whosbest54 wrote:
Dave, some additional options to consider:

- Separate antennas and an A/B switch, with a rescan whenever you switch.

I would suggest the rescan shouldn't be necessary on most receivers --
usually you can manually enable channels that don't come in on a scan.
So you do a scan on one antenna, then make a list of the RF channels
that should come in on the other antenna and manually enable those
channels. *In most cases it will automatically program in the correct
virtual channels the first time you punch up those RF channels.

--

Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View, TN *EM66

The "shoulds" can be very difficult with modern electronics. *In years
past, there were plenty of TVs and VCRs that could take direct entry
of a channel, but had remotes with no keypad, so, you had to get a
keypad remote *to allow direct entry. My DTV reciever has a keypad,
and it allows direct entry, but only on analog; at least according to
instructions. However, I accidentally discovered the procedure for
direct entry of DTV channels. One may enter either RF or Virtual
channel number, and, if there is signal sufficient to process, the
picture comes up under the Virtual number; one can even enter sub-
channel designations. The manufacturer has nothing in its litterature
about this, possibly because the procedure is complicated and the set
was clearly intended for transition period use, with analog maybe as
the more used . Anyway, I rarely go to a a station using up and down
anymore, as direct entry is much faster. I thought this might be
useful for anybody that hasn't fully "explored" *possibilities.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With my converter box I can manually program the main channels, and
the sub-channels will automatically be available by using the up arrow
while on the main channel.

MACK DADDY wrote:
On May 1, 6:01 pm, swangdb wrote:
On Apr 30, 2:15 pm, swangdb wrote:

I bought a Channel Master 4228HD antenna this week and tested it some
today. I connected it to a short pole and put the pole in an umbrella
mount on the deck.
The antenna is still on my deck.

Today I spent time rotating it slightly and rescanning for channels
each time. Small changes make huge differences.

There are two channels that come in no matter what. One is from
Columbus, GA and the other is from Montgomery, AL. These are 14 and
15. I guess the lower the better on UHF, though for all I know they
may have the strongest signals in the area.

There is one spot where I get ABC from Columbus (Channel 47, though it
claims to be 9) and CW somewhere nearby on 22. However, the
subchannel for 22 is ABC from Montgomery. Weird. A degree or two in
either direction and they vanish.

I went through the channels one at a time and checked their
strengths. There are 11 channels that have weak signals that I can't
receive. Time to raise the antenna.

This is a really high hill near my house and there is a house on top
of the hill. I've visited a few times and it's way above the tree
line. I bet the reception up there would be great.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You do not have to rescan every time you move or switch antennas.
Once you find which stations will come in you can manual program them
in and they will be there regardless of antenna position. Say, for
example, you auto-scan with your antenna facing north. Those stations
will be programmed in. Then you want stations from the west. Aim the
antenna, and autoscan to find whats available. Then you lose the
north stations. Now, manually program what you had facing north, and
then during subsequent antenna aimings you will not have to keep
reprogramming the converter.

Many converters have an "update" scan feature, where the converter scans
for new channels while retaining the old ones.

TJ

On May 2, 12:52*am, sorry-spammers ""w9wi\"@(sorry-spammers)" wrote:
swangdb wrote:

There is one spot where I get ABC from Columbus (Channel 47, though it
claims to be 9) and CW somewhere nearby on 22. *However, the
subchannel for 22 is ABC from Montgomery. *Weird. *A degree or two in
either direction and they vanish.

I would bet the ABC subchannel is being simulcast on the same
transmitter as CW. *The ABC station's own transmitter is the least
powerful digital in Montgomery.

That's it. The two transmitters are about 40 miles apart, the CW
tower is much closer to my house than the ABC tower. It appears these
two stations (CW and ABC) are "sister" stations in this area. Maybe
they are owned by the same company.

I went through the channels one at a time and checked their
strengths. *There are 11 channels that have weak signals that I can't
receive. *Time to raise the antenna.

The FCC believes 36dBu is enough signal for a high-VHF station to
deliver DTV service; 41dBu is required for UHF. *Judging from your
"auburn.edu" email address (and the rest of context) I presume you're in
Auburn, Alabama. *

I am.

The FCC's "curves" program predicts these channels
should provide that much signal to the "reference coordinates" of Auburn:

RF-7 * 7 WCIQ Mt. Cheaha * * PBS * *45.82dBu, post-transition [1]
RF-11 *9 WTVM Columbus, Ga. *ABC * *61.30dBu, post-transition
RF-12 12 WSFA Montgomery * * NBC * *50.58dBu, post-transition
RF-14 12 WSFA Montgomery * * NBC * *48.67dBu, pre-transition
RF-15 *3 WRBL Columbus, Ga. *CBS * *64.22dBu, pre and post
RF-16 16 WYBU Columbus, Ga. *ind * *56.15dBu, permit
RF-18 18 WQMK Opelika * * * *TBN * *103.8dBu, permit [5]
RF-20 20 WCOV Montgomery * * Fox * *47.97dBu, post-transition
RF-22 22 WBMM Tuskegee * * * CW * * 45.44dBu, post-transition [2]
RF-23 28 WJSP Columbus, Ga. *PBS * *51.19dBu, pre and post
RF-24 22 WBMM Tuskegee * * * CW * * 46.37dBu, pre-transition [3]
RF-35 38 WLTZ Columbus, Ga. *NBC * *57.41dBu, pre and post
RF-46 45 WMCF Montgomery * * TBN * *44.86dBu, pre and post
RF-47 *9 WTVM Columbus, Ga. *ABC * *51.05dBu, pre-transition [4]
RF-47 66 WLGA Opelika * * * *CW * * 51.05dBu, post-transition [4]
RF-48 67 WRJM Troy * * * * * My * * 43.84dBu, pre and post
RF-49 54 WXTX Columbus, Ga. *Fox * *64.00dBu, pre and post

RF- is actual frequency, second number is what channel the station will
claim to be on.

Thanks, I appreciate this listing.

[1] pre-transition ch. 56 facility not predicted to provide a useful
signal in Auburn.
[2] sounds like this one has already moved to their post-transition
facility - I presume there is no analog signal on RF 22 anymore?

Not that I can see. There are only a few analog signals left in this
area.

[3] presumably off the air on ch. 24 if operating on RF 22.
[4] moving to RF-11 in June, at which time WLGA will take over the RF-47
digital transmitter.
[5] relay of WMCF 46.

Aside from mounting the antenna on the roof, I guess I need to wait
until June 12 and see how well I can receive the channels that move
then. It looks like three of the channels I can receive are moving
then. The one that concerns me the most is CBS from Columbus which is
on 15 now but will move back to 3. Despite being a mostly UHF
antenna, it sort of picks up the analog 3 now but not well. I suppose
if I lost this channel after the switch, I could try mounting the
cheapo Winegard on my roof and combining it with the new antenna. The
Winegard does pick up channel 3 fairly well from my deck.

Back in early 1970s I didn't live in this area but I visited some
relatives here and they had an antenna on the roof. They received a
few channels but not that well. At the time I lived about 40 miles
from Birmingham, AL and my family received the Birmingham channels
fairly well with a rooftop antenna and I couldn't understand why my
relatives couldn't pick up the same stations we received. These
stations were over 100 miles from Auburn! I didn't understand how
distance affected reception..

In the mid-1980s I tried using a rooftop antenna in Auburn and the
picture quality was mostly terrible. This antenna came with the house
I was renting and it didn't have an amplifier. I spoke with some
friends who had similar results. I went back to cable.

Then in the early 90s I moved into this house and tried using a pretty
good rooftop antenna, amplifier and rotor. It worked okay but just
okay. Having to rotate the antenna drove me nuts and some channels
were never as sharp as I wanted. Still, it kind of worked, well
enough to use. Eventually storms destroyed this setup and I didn't
replace it until now.

Last night I realized that with this new antenna (still sitting on my
deck) and the new digital technology, this is far and away the best
OTA TV reception I've ever received here. I don't receive some of the
blurry channels I used to receive, but of course every channel I do
receive (Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, CW) is sharp. I hope to pick up PBS and
maybe a few more after mounting the antenna on the roof.

I took the old telescoping pole from the salvage pile this weekend and
it's rusted enough that I couldn't telescope it to it's full length.
Maybe a pipe wrench will help. Or some WD-40.

Anyway, thanks Doug!

swangdb wrote:
That's it. The two transmitters are about 40 miles apart, the CW
tower is much closer to my house than the ABC tower. It appears these
two stations (CW and ABC) are "sister" stations in this area. Maybe
they are owned by the same company.

They don't literally have the same name on their licenses but there may
well be holding companies or management agreements involved.

Aside from mounting the antenna on the roof, I guess I need to wait
until June 12 and see how well I can receive the channels that move
then. It looks like three of the channels I can receive are moving
then. The one that concerns me the most is CBS from Columbus which is
on 15 now but will move back to 3. Despite being a mostly UHF
antenna, it sort of picks up the analog 3 now but not well. I suppose
if I lost this channel after the switch, I could try mounting the
cheapo Winegard on my roof and combining it with the new antenna. The
Winegard does pick up channel 3 fairly well from my deck.

No, WRBL (CBS Columbus) is *not* moving back to channel 3 -- their
channel 15 facility is their permanent digital facility. There will be
VERY few digital stations below channel 7, the closest will be channel 6
in Tuscaloosa.

I guess I should make clear, in that table I posted, the second channel
number is NOT an actual frequency. Each digital station sends out a
signal that tells your TV what channel that station wants you to *think*
they're on. That may or may not be the channel the station is actually
using. (it is nearly always the channel the station's old analog signal
was on)

See the last column in the table, where it says "pre-transition",
"post-transition", or "pre and post". If a line says "pre and post", it
means that station is *not* moving to a new channel -- that this line
will be in use both before and after their analog is shut down.

If it says "pre-transition" that means they will abandon this channel
after their analog shuts down and move to their "post-transition" channel.

In some cases (notably WCIQ) you'll only find a post-transition channel;
that means the pre-transition signal doesn't reach Auburn.

Last night I realized that with this new antenna (still sitting on my
deck) and the new digital technology, this is far and away the best
OTA TV reception I've ever received here. I don't receive some of the
blurry channels I used to receive, but of course every channel I do
receive (Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, CW) is sharp. I hope to pick up PBS and
maybe a few more after mounting the antenna on the roof.

For a long time, most Montgomery channels had pretty wimpy towers.
Channel 12 was the only one that had much of a signal. That gradually
changed in the 1980s. (though channels 20 and 26 analog signals
remained somewhat wimpy through the end of analog)

I took the old telescoping pole from the salvage pile this weekend and
it's rusted enough that I couldn't telescope it to it's full length.
Maybe a pipe wrench will help. Or some WD-40.

Good luck! (do be darned sure you're clear of power lines!)

--

Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View, TN EM66

On May 4, 9:48*am, sorry-spammers ""w9wi\"@(sorry-spammers)" wrote:
swangdb wrote:
That's it. *The two transmitters are about 40 miles apart, the CW

No, WRBL (CBS Columbus) is *not* moving back to channel 3 -- their
channel 15 facility is their permanent digital facility. *There will be
VERY few digital stations below channel 7, the closest will be channel 6
in Tuscaloosa.

Oops, I get it now! This is good news for me.

In some cases (notably WCIQ) you'll only find a post-transition channel;
that means the pre-transition signal doesn't reach Auburn.

I used to receive a weak analog version of this channel with my
previous antenna. It's a long way from here, though the transmitter
is on a fairly tall mountain. Actually, I already receive this
channel via DISH but if I could receive it OTA I'd save a buck or so
each month! ;-)

For a long time, most Montgomery channels had pretty wimpy towers.

I believe this.

I took the old telescoping pole from the salvage pile this weekend and
it's rusted enough that I couldn't telescope it to it's full length.
Maybe a pipe wrench will help. *Or some WD-40.

Good luck! *(do be darned sure you're clear of power lines!)

Thanks, I think they're all on the other side of the house, but I'll
check again to be sure.

"swangdb" wrote in message
...

snip

I could try mounting the
cheapo Winegard on my roof and combining it with
the new antenna. The Winegard does pick up channel
3 fairly well from my deck.

There is some risk of combining antennas. If the signals arrive
out-of-phase at the combiner, the combined signal will be weaker than either
of the originals. Only way to tell is to experiment. If it happens, there
are some tricks to do, like moving one antenna toward or away from the
station (which is often hard to do if it's on a mast) or by changing the
length of one cable a few inches at a time (tedious). Possibly a better
approach if you need more than one antenna to get all your stations is a
switch or switches. At one house, I had several such switches in use; I
have just one now.

"Sal"

In article , "Sal M. Onella" wrote:

"swangdb" wrote in message
...

snip

I could try mounting the
cheapo Winegard on my roof and combining it with
the new antenna. The Winegard does pick up channel
3 fairly well from my deck.

There is some risk of combining antennas. If the signals arrive
out-of-phase at the combiner, the combined signal will be weaker than either
of the originals. Only way to tell is to experiment. If it happens, there
are some tricks to do, like moving one antenna toward or away from the
station (which is often hard to do if it's on a mast) or by changing the
length of one cable a few inches at a time (tedious). Possibly a better
approach if you need more than one antenna to get all your stations is a
switch or switches. At one house, I had several such switches in use; I
have just one now.

"Sal"


When i meant to combine, I meant by using a seperate UHF and a separate VHF
antenna. That shouldnt cause any out of phase issues.

GMAN wrote:
When i meant to combine, I meant by using a seperate UHF and a separate VHF
antenna. That shouldnt cause any out of phase issues.

Wouldn't necessarily bet on that. UHF antennas will pick up some VHF
signal and vice-versa.

--

Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View, TN EM66