Digital AV cables rip-off

"Or, in plain English, a standard HDMI cable should cost no more than $50.
===============================================
Brands tested:
HDMI cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Monster 700HD
c.. Concord
d.. Phillips
e.. Concord
f.. Panasonic
g.. Monster 1000HD
h.. Monster 500HD
i.. Sony
j.. Audioquest
Toslink Digital audio cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Foxtel
c.. DSE (Titanium series)
d.. Audioquest
e.. Neotech
f.. Monster (Interlink)
================================================== ====================
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle...cables+rip-off

"Kalarama" wrote in message
...
"Or, in plain English, a standard HDMI cable should cost no more
than $50.
===============================================

That would be about $35 to $40 too much.

Brands tested:
HDMI cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Monster 700HD
c.. Concord
d.. Phillips
e.. Concord
f.. Panasonic
g.. Monster 1000HD
h.. Monster 500HD
i.. Sony
j.. Audioquest
Toslink Digital audio cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Foxtel
c.. DSE (Titanium series)
d.. Audioquest
e.. Neotech
f.. Monster (Interlink)
================================================== ====================
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle...cables+rip-off

Kalarama wrote:

"Or, in plain English, a standard HDMI cable should cost no more than $50.
===============================================
Brands tested:
HDMI cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Monster 700HD
c.. Concord
d.. Phillips
e.. Concord
f.. Panasonic
g.. Monster 1000HD
h.. Monster 500HD
i.. Sony
j.. Audioquest
Toslink Digital audio cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Foxtel
c.. DSE (Titanium series)
d.. Audioquest
e.. Neotech
f.. Monster (Interlink)
================================================== ====================
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle...cables+rip-off

I use $15 Beldon HDMI cables in my installations. Never a problem. Can't say
the same about $3-$5 "monoprice" type cables. Yeah, they work...most of the
time.

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
Kalarama wrote:

"Or, in plain English, a standard HDMI cable should cost no more than
$50.
===============================================
Brands tested:
HDMI cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Monster 700HD
c.. Concord
d.. Phillips
e.. Concord
f.. Panasonic
g.. Monster 1000HD
h.. Monster 500HD
i.. Sony
j.. Audioquest
Toslink Digital audio cables
a.. Belkin PureAV
b.. Foxtel
c.. DSE (Titanium series)
d.. Audioquest
e.. Neotech
f.. Monster (Interlink)
================================================== ====================
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle...cables+rip-off

I use $15 Beldon HDMI cables in my installations. Never a problem. Can't
say
the same about $3-$5 "monoprice" type cables. Yeah, they work...most of
the
time.


I've had ZERO problems with $5 monoprice.com HDMI cables. Since all their
cables have a lifetime Warranty, your covered if one for whatever reason
goes bad. Normally if a cable works to start out with, it's not going to
just stop working a few months or years later unless something, CAT, MOUSE,
whatever chew on it. I have large piles of cables used over the years and
none that I can recall have ever gone BAD. I can get 3 monoprice cables for
your single Beldon cable, not that it's a HUGE price difference. There's
really nothing wrong with paying $15 for a HDMI cable. At least that's
reasonable. MONSTER cables can get up there to pretty high crazy prices,
but there's a few other brands that are just out of this world price wise.
You'd think the cable was made out of solid Gold!!!

That high price your paying for that MONSTER cables, well most of it is
markup. Stores get little in the HDTV and make up some money on these over
priced cables. That's how large a markup they get. I hear in store
Employee's get them at Half price which is still a lot. Part of what your
also spending on the cables is Advertising, Pushing their cables out to all
these stores, and of course the Lawyers that will go after anyone trying to
use the Monster name or Bad Mouth them. If you really have money to throw
away on MONSTER cables, send most of your money my way and the rest spend at
monoprice.com!!!

HDMI is DIGITAL. That means all it sends over the cable is ZERO and ONE, or
Voltage, No Voltage. That's IT!!! It's not like a Analog cable. HDMI
Licensing, which oversees the HDMI spec and ensures that companies comply
with it, requires that no more than one pixel per billion be lost in
transmission. Even if you lost one out of a thousand pixels, you wouldn't
notice it. So anyone that says they can SEE THE DIFFERENCE is under the
Placebo effect. Because there is ZERO difference from a $5 cable and a
$100+ MONSTER cable, sometimes you'll see in store Demonstrations that are a
complete SCAM. Sure the one with the great picture has that expensive HDMI
cable hooked up, but the other display has a no name Composite cable that
can't even output a HD picture!!! Or the other way, they adjust the HDTV to
give a poor picture with the Generic HDMI cable. Don't fall for it.

On Mar 29, 5:46*pm, "JBDragon" wrote:
snip
I've had ZERO problems with $5 monoprice.com HDMI cables. * Since
all their
cables have a lifetime Warranty, your covered if one for whatever
reason
goes bad. *Normally if a cable works to start out with, it's not
going to
just stop working a few months or years later unless something,
CAT, MOUSE,
whatever chew on it. *I have large piles of cables used over the
years and
none that I can recall have ever gone BAD. *I can get 3 monoprice
cables for
your single Beldon cable, not that it's a HUGE price difference.
*There's
really nothing wrong with paying $15 for a HDMI cable. *At least
that's
reasonable. * MONSTER cables can get up there to pretty high crazy
prices,
but there's a few other brands that are just out of this world
price wise.
You'd think the cable was made out of solid Gold!!!

That high price your paying for that MONSTER cables, well most of
it is
markup. *Stores get little in the HDTV and make up some money on
these over
priced cables. *That's how large a markup they get. *I hear in
store
Employee's get them at Half price which is still a lot. *Part of
what your
also spending on the cables is Advertising, Pushing their cables
out to all
these stores, and of course the Lawyers that will go after anyone
trying to
use the Monster name or Bad Mouth them. * *If you really have money
to throw
away on MONSTER cables, send most of your money my way and the rest
spend at
monoprice.com!!!

HDMI is DIGITAL. *That means all it sends over the cable is ZERO
and ONE, or
Voltage, No Voltage. *That's IT!!! * It's not like a Analog cable.
* HDMI
Licensing, which oversees the HDMI spec and ensures that companies
comply
with it, requires that no more than one pixel per billion be lost
in
transmission. Even if you lost one out of a thousand pixels, you
wouldn't
notice it. *So anyone that says they can SEE THE DIFFERENCE is
under the
Placebo effect. * Because there is ZERO difference from a $5 cable
and a
$100+ MONSTER cable, sometimes you'll see in store Demonstrations
that are a
complete SCAM. *Sure the one with the great picture has that
expensive HDMI
cable hooked up, but the other display has a no name Composite
cable that
can't even output a HD picture!!! *Or the other way, they adjust
the HDTV to
give a poor picture with the Generic HDMI cable. * Don't fall for
it.

I suggetst you read this before you make statements of 'certainty'
about how digital works.

http://www.audioquest.com/resource_t...d_rev_1_03.pdf

HDMI most certainly is an _analog_ representation of digital going
through the cable and consequently suffers from analog degradations -
high frequency rolloff, termination errors (reflections), attenuation
vs length , noise pickup, group delay. When it degrades far enough
you'll have problems and some cables ARE better than others though for
short hops it's generally not a problem even for lesser quality
cables.

G²

wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 5:46 pm, "JBDragon" wrote:
snip
I've had ZERO problems with $5 monoprice.com HDMI cables. Since
all their
cables have a lifetime Warranty, your covered if one for whatever
reason
goes bad. Normally if a cable works to start out with, it's not
going to
just stop working a few months or years later unless something,
CAT, MOUSE,
whatever chew on it. I have large piles of cables used over the
years and
none that I can recall have ever gone BAD. I can get 3 monoprice
cables for
your single Beldon cable, not that it's a HUGE price difference.
There's
really nothing wrong with paying $15 for a HDMI cable. At least
that's
reasonable. MONSTER cables can get up there to pretty high crazy
prices,
but there's a few other brands that are just out of this world
price wise.
You'd think the cable was made out of solid Gold!!!

That high price your paying for that MONSTER cables, well most of
it is
markup. Stores get little in the HDTV and make up some money on
these over
priced cables. That's how large a markup they get. I hear in
store
Employee's get them at Half price which is still a lot. Part of
what your
also spending on the cables is Advertising, Pushing their cables
out to all
these stores, and of course the Lawyers that will go after anyone
trying to
use the Monster name or Bad Mouth them. If you really have money
to throw
away on MONSTER cables, send most of your money my way and the rest
spend at
monoprice.com!!!

HDMI is DIGITAL. That means all it sends over the cable is ZERO
and ONE, or
Voltage, No Voltage. That's IT!!! It's not like a Analog cable.
HDMI
Licensing, which oversees the HDMI spec and ensures that companies
comply
with it, requires that no more than one pixel per billion be lost
in
transmission. Even if you lost one out of a thousand pixels, you
wouldn't
notice it. So anyone that says they can SEE THE DIFFERENCE is
under the
Placebo effect. Because there is ZERO difference from a $5 cable
and a
$100+ MONSTER cable, sometimes you'll see in store Demonstrations
that are a
complete SCAM. Sure the one with the great picture has that
expensive HDMI
cable hooked up, but the other display has a no name Composite
cable that
can't even output a HD picture!!! Or the other way, they adjust
the HDTV to
give a poor picture with the Generic HDMI cable. Don't fall for
it.

I suggetst you read this before you make statements of 'certainty'
about how digital works.

http://www.audioquest.com/resource_t...d_rev_1_03.pdf

HDMI most certainly is an _analog_ representation of digital going
through the cable and consequently suffers from analog degradations -
high frequency rolloff, termination errors (reflections), attenuation
vs length , noise pickup, group delay. When it degrades far enough
you'll have problems and some cables ARE better than others though for
short hops it's generally not a problem even for lesser quality
cables.


Well you can go and read THIS LINK!!!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/12177...able_game.html

Most important is this,...

Digital technology promises to transmit a perfect signal nearly all the
time, thanks to the exacting standards incorporated in the HDMI
specification. HDMI Licensing, which oversees the HDMI spec and ensures that
companies comply with it, requires that no more than one pixel per billion
be lost in transmission. "Even if you lost one out of a thousand pixels, you
wouldn't notice it," says Leslie Chard, HDMI Licensing president.

and this,....

Once you get a good HDMI connection, our tests indicate, you can expect
flawless performance from any 4-meter cable, regardless of price. "That is
what I would expect from the HDMI cables," says Maxim's Nelson. "It is not
too difficult to make them work perfectly at 4 meters."

4 meters is just over 13 feet!!! Far longer them most people will be using.
I'm currently using 6 foot cables and would like to get shorter 3 foot long
HDMI cables. If your going to need a longer HDMI cable then 13 feet, then
a better quality cable may help you out. Still doesn't mean you need to pay
MONSTER or others crazy prices!!! I'm guessing you work for Audioquest as
they are one that have nice HIGH crazy prices. You want some prices. I
have the Price list from them. Since Quality cables are more Important and
longer sizes, lets start at 4.5 meter HDMI cable. There seems to be 5
different ones that range in price from a low of $65, to a High of $625!!!
I'm not saying these aren't good cables because they are. It's just
overkill for most people's needs. You can get a HDMI cable from them
that's 20 meters LONG. They have a pick of 2. Once costs $1,125.00, the
other, $2,175. Of course that's 65 feet 7 inches long. If you need a cable
that long, I'm guessing your doing some type of Front Projector setup in a
Large room with all your hardware way off someplace. I'm sure this cost
wouldn't be much compared to everything else. Which your only going to buy
1, and the rest would be short cables where MONOPRICE $5 cables would work
just fine, though of course your going to get all the same brand anyway.

On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:46:17 -0700, "JBDragon"
wrote:


That high price your paying for that MONSTER cables, well most of it is
markup.

Many years ago, I worked for a large company that had negotiated aa
urchasing agreement with the then new Compusa store that had just
moved into town. Employees could buy equipment at cost + 5%.

Usually, the discount didnt amount to much, especially on computers
and accessories. but what a gold mine it was when buying cables. A
$25 serial port cable would ring up at the cash register as $1.25.
The markup was tremendous.

Later the deal was renegoiated to shelf price - %5 and the savings
werent quite so spectacular. But while it lasted, it was an awsome
deal.

So yes, Monster and other high priced cables are a complete and total
ripoff.

-dickm

JBDragon wrote:

I use $15 Beldon HDMI cables in my installations. Never a problem.
Can't say the same about $3-$5 "monoprice" type cables. Yeah, they
work...most of the time.

That high price your paying for that MONSTER cables, well most of it is
markup.

[you're]

Why is it I write that I use $15 Belden cables, and you reply that I'm
paying a high price for MONSTER cables?

As far as your "they are all the same" mantra, I suggest you educate
yourself with HDMI specifications and about some of the things that
might go wrong with cheaply made HDMI cables. I read the horror stories
in various forums.

For starters, read *all* of:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...o.htm?hdmiinfo

Pay careful attention to the "eye-pattern" testing sections.

Please don't cut out a sentence or two that looks like it supports your
position and paste it here. That's quite transparent.

On Mar 30, 1:40*pm, UCLAN wrote:
JBDragon wrote:
I use $15 Beldon HDMI cables in my installations. Never a problem.
Can't say *the same about $3-$5 "monoprice" type cables. Yeah, they
work...most of the time.
That high price your paying for that MONSTER cables, well most of it is
markup.

[you're]

Why is it I write that I use $15 Belden cables, and you reply that I'm
paying a high price for MONSTER cables?

As far as your "they are all the same" mantra, I suggest you educate
yourself with HDMI specifications and about some of the things that
might go wrong with cheaply made HDMI cables. I read the horror stories
in various forums.

For starters, read *all* of:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...o.htm?hdmiinfo

Pay careful attention to the "eye-pattern" testing sections.

Please don't cut out a sentence or two that looks like it supports your
position and paste it here. That's quite transparent.

UCLAN:

That's a nice article. One of the best I've seen about testing HDMI
cable, and it does show that there are indeed differences between
cables, which is exactly as I would expect. I do note that Belden is
emphasizing long cables using the highest bit rates, and potential
next generation applications. I would really like to see a sample of
cables tested for the more common 6 ft. and 12 ft. lengths. I would
guess that most cables will pass easily, even for 1080p data rates, at
6ft. Personally, if I pay $10 for a cable, I'm not too concerned if 5
years hence, some new application needs a better cable. I'll buy a
$20 cable then, when I need it. Of course, if I were running 50 ft.
cables today, I'd probably try to get better quality cables and I'd
test them before installing them.

For those who like to say "it's all ones and zeros so any cable will
do", that's really an oversimplification. Digital signaling maximizes
the margin for error, allowing a wider range of cables to deliver
reliable data. There is still a point where the cables get crappy
enough, or lengths get long enough, or data rates get high enough,
where some cables will fail and others will not.

Still, for most of us with 6 ft. cables and 1080p at best, most cables
will work.

Dan (Woj...)

dmaster wrote:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...o.htm?hdmiinfo

Pay careful attention to the "eye-pattern" testing sections.

Please don't cut out a sentence or two that looks like it supports your
position and paste it here. That's quite transparent.

UCLAN:

That's a nice article. One of the best I've seen about testing HDMI
cable, and it does show that there are indeed differences between
cables, which is exactly as I would expect. I do note that Belden is
emphasizing long cables using the highest bit rates, and potential
next generation applications. I would really like to see a sample of
cables tested for the more common 6 ft. and 12 ft. lengths. I would
guess that most cables will pass easily, even for 1080p data rates, at
6ft. Personally, if I pay $10 for a cable, I'm not too concerned if 5
years hence, some new application needs a better cable. I'll buy a
$20 cable then, when I need it. Of course, if I were running 50 ft.
cables today, I'd probably try to get better quality cables and I'd
test them before installing them.

For those who like to say "it's all ones and zeros so any cable will
do", that's really an oversimplification. Digital signaling maximizes
the margin for error, allowing a wider range of cables to deliver
reliable data. There is still a point where the cables get crappy
enough, or lengths get long enough, or data rates get high enough,
where some cables will fail and others will not.

Still, for most of us with 6 ft. cables and 1080p at best, most cables
will work.

One factor not mentioned in that article was the physical aspects of the
connector. The HDMI connector has nothing holding it in but the "snugness"
of the connector and the integrity of the pins. It takes just a little
vibration to loosen an HDMI connection over time, and those with pins that
loosen over time due to cheap metal or poor construction become headaches
over time. Initial successful operation doesn't reveal this.

Also (and only briefly discussed in the article) is the difference in
input/output levels of various HDMI devices. A cable that attenuates
too much signal may work fine (initially) in one application but not in
another. This is even more problematic when a switcher or AVR is in the
loop. This is like using a 6' cable *to* an AVR, a 6' cable *from* the
AVR *to* the TV, making the entire loop appear to be 12' or longer -
depending on the AVR. Replace the AVR and the loop may now appear too
long for the cables used.

Too much of a hassle. Spending a few extra dollars at first can save hassles
(and a service call) down the road. I can't see the logic in spending
$1000 for a TV, $500-$1000 for an AVR, and $300-$400 for a Blu-ray player -
and then trying to save a few bucks to connect it all together. Oh well...