EPG implementation

Can someone please bring me up to speed on the implementation of various
EPGs for Freesat, Sky and Freeview.

My questions a

Is the the EPG is transmitted as a separate data channel or included within
each of those channels included in it?

Does the EPG have the same implementation and features on all three
platforms and are the HD channels on satellite included in the same manner?
--

The Wikepedia entry appears to mainly describe the situation in North
America with sparse reference to it's application in the uk.

Roger R

Roger R wrote:
: Is the the EPG is transmitted as a separate data channel or included within
: each of those channels included in it?

I cannot comment on Freeview but know something about the Sky and Freesat EPGs!
The Freesat EPG is based on providing similar facilities to those on Sky - so
its implementation is very similar.

For both Sky and Freesat there are (one each) dedicated (but independent)
"EPG transponders" which carry the full EPG for all channels in each system
for the next 7 days. To receive this the STB has to retune its receiver (or
one in the case of dual-tuner PVRs) to this transponder.

In addition to the full-EPG each satellite transponder in the Sky or Freesat
system carries (in addition to several (SD or HD) TV channels and/or radio)
limited EPG data for the next few hours on hidden data streams. This allows
users to browse the names and times of programmes on all channels (using
the remote cursor keys) - while still viewing the existing programme.

In the case of transponders COMMON to both Sky and Freesat (BBC, ITV etc.)
(different) limited EPG data is present on TWO streams - one each for the Sky
and Freesat EPGs. Both these data streams are physically added to the
transponder multiplex data stream using Sky equipment (an "adaption hub")
- which Freesat shares by arrangement)

: Does the EPG have the same implementation and features on all three
: platforms and are the HD channels on satellite included in the same manner?

The Freesat system is based on Skys to provide the same (or better) features
("red" button etc.) - but has been developed independently. Both EPGs are
proprietary.

HD channels are treated identically to SD ones.

Roger R wrote:

Is the the EPG is transmitted as a separate data channel or included
within each of those channels included in it?

Freeview is an implementation of DVB-T, which is covered by international
specifications published by ETSI. The EPG is described in ETSI 300-468
(available from etsi.org after free registration). It is broadcast in the
SI tables of the multiplex and each multiplex has data for all of the
other multiplexes.

"Freeview Plus" (which adds series link functionality to freeview PVRs) is
a simplified version of an ETSI protocol called "TVAnytime" (ETSI
102-323) and again each multiplex has data for all the other multiplexes.
--
Dave

"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message
...
Roger R wrote:
: Is the the EPG is transmitted as a separate data channel or included
: within each of those channels included in it?

I cannot comment on Freeview but know something about the Sky and Freesat
EPGs! The Freesat EPG is based on providing similar facilities to those on
Sky - so its implementation is very similar.

For both Sky and Freesat there are (one each) dedicated (but independent)
"EPG transponders" which carry the full EPG for all channels in each
system for the next 7 days. To receive this the STB has to retune its
receiver (or one in the case of dual-tuner PVRs) to this transponder.

In addition to the full-EPG each satellite transponder in the Sky or
Freesat system carries (in addition to several (SD or HD) TV channels
and/or radio) limited EPG data for the next few hours on hidden data
streams. This allows users to browse the names and times of programmes on
all channels (using the remote cursor keys) - while still viewing the
existing programme.

In the case of transponders COMMON to both Sky and Freesat (BBC, ITV etc.)
(different) limited EPG data is present on TWO streams - one each for the
Sky and Freesat EPGs. Both these data streams are physically added to the
transponder multiplex data stream using Sky equipment (an "adaption hub")
- which Freesat shares by arrangement)

: Does the EPG have the same implementation and features on all three
: platforms and are the HD channels on satellite included in the same
manner?

The Freesat system is based on Skys to provide the same (or better)
features ("red" button etc.) - but has been developed independently. Both
EPGs are proprietary.

HD channels are treated identically to SD ones.

Thanks for your informative reply. It sounds as if you know rather a lot
about it.

I'm wondering how the receiver calls up the EPG transponder when the viewer
selects full EPG. Presumably the receiver stores the present viewed
channel so it can return there afterwards, retunes to the full EPG
transponder, and afterwards retunes the viewer to the previously stored
channel? The viewer being unaware of this retuning action? This would
prevent the viewer continuing to watch via a semi transparent overlay?

Referring to the Lyngsat chart, is the full EPG channel tp38 12441 V ?

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say transponders COMMON to both
Sky and FreeSat (BBC, ITV etc) as I don't see any transponders that have
both Sky and BBC channels on the same transponder except the one mentioned
above (tp38 on Astra 2B). Perhaps I have not understood this point.

Roger R

I just wish they were plain text and read out by a speech synth. The epgs
are the one thing we blind folk cannot get access to now, sadly. In the old
teletext days we had a relatively cheap talking teletext gubbins we could
get, but nobody seems to have thought of this this time, when it would be
much more use!
Well there is a device, but it cost the best part of a grand, and is
basically a dedicated windows computer for freeview reception.
I mean, with mass market gadgets now able to read text files it cannot be
rocket science, now can it?
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Roger R" wrote in message
...
Can someone please bring me up to speed on the implementation of various
EPGs for Freesat, Sky and Freeview.

My questions a

Is the the EPG is transmitted as a separate data channel or included
within
each of those channels included in it?

Does the EPG have the same implementation and features on all three
platforms and are the HD channels on satellite included in the same
manner?
--

The Wikepedia entry appears to mainly describe the situation in North
America with sparse reference to it's application in the uk.

Roger R

So if they have data for the others, does this make it awfully messy in
areas where fewer multiplexes are receivable?
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Pickles" wrote in message
...
Roger R wrote:

Is the the EPG is transmitted as a separate data channel or included
within each of those channels included in it?

Freeview is an implementation of DVB-T, which is covered by international
specifications published by ETSI. The EPG is described in ETSI 300-468
(available from etsi.org after free registration). It is broadcast in the
SI tables of the multiplex and each multiplex has data for all of the
other multiplexes.

"Freeview Plus" (which adds series link functionality to freeview PVRs) is
a simplified version of an ETSI protocol called "TVAnytime" (ETSI
102-323) and again each multiplex has data for all the other multiplexes.
--
Dave

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:29:43 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

So if they have data for the others, does this make it awfully messy in
areas where fewer multiplexes are receivable?
Brian
I don't know whether it is messy internally, but EPG information is only
displayed for the list of channels the set top box has found during a
scan. In fact if a user deletes a channel from the list that channel
will no longer appear in the displayed EPG.

I'd guess that the software stores incoming EPG data for only those
channels that it has found and listed.

The message
from "Brian Gaff" contains these words:

I just wish they were plain text and read out by a speech synth. The epgs
are the one thing we blind folk cannot get access to now, sadly. In the old
teletext days we had a relatively cheap talking teletext gubbins we could
get, but nobody seems to have thought of this this time, when it would be
much more use!
Well there is a device, but it cost the best part of a grand, and is
basically a dedicated windows computer for freeview reception.
I mean, with mass market gadgets now able to read text files it cannot be
rocket science, now can it?
Brian

Well, Brian, you're not wrong there! I, for the life of me, can't see
how you could invoke Newton's Third Law Of Motion into an EPG text to
speech converter. ;-)

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

Roger R wrote:

: I'm wondering how the receiver calls up the EPG transponder when the viewer
: selects full EPG. Presumably the receiver stores the present viewed
: channel so it can return there afterwards, retunes to the full EPG
: transponder, and afterwards retunes the viewer to the previously stored
: channel?

Sky receivers have a setup parameter "Default transponder" in the "Engineers
Menu" which is the EPG transponder. So they only have to remember where to
go back to!

For Sky the full EPG is on 11.778V.
Freesat use 11.428H on Eurobird 1 at 25.8E.

: I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say transponders COMMON to both
: Sky and FreeSat (BBC, ITV etc) as I don't see any transponders that have
: both Sky and BBC channels on the same transponder except the one mentioned
: above (tp38 on Astra 2B). Perhaps I have not understood this point.

How about the ITV transponders, the ones carrying "Movies for Men", QVC and
the like?

Basically if a channel has an entry in the Freesat EPG it is going to need
the "several hour" limited Freesat EPG data added on to its transponder!
All these transponders will be also carrying Sky EPG data as well (for the
Sky "search and scan" functionality)

"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message
...
Roger R wrote:

: I'm wondering how the receiver calls up the EPG transponder when the
: viewer
: selects full EPG. Presumably the receiver stores the present viewed
: channel so it can return there afterwards, retunes to the full EPG
: transponder, and afterwards retunes the viewer to the previously stored
: channel?

Sky receivers have a setup parameter "Default transponder" in the
"Engineers Menu" which is the EPG transponder. So they only have to
remember where to go back to!

For Sky the full EPG is on 11.778V.
Freesat use 11.428H on Eurobird 1 at 25.8E.

Thanks for those details. The service function is not mentioned on Lyngsat.

: I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say transponders COMMON to
: both
: Sky and FreeSat (BBC, ITV etc) as I don't see any transponders that have
: both Sky and BBC channels on the same transponder except the one
: mentioned above (tp38 on Astra 2B). Perhaps I have not understood
: this point.

How about the ITV transponders, the ones carrying "Movies for Men", QVC
and the like?

Basically if a channel has an entry in the Freesat EPG it is going to need
the "several hour" limited Freesat EPG data added on to its transponder!
All these transponders will be also carrying Sky EPG data as well (for the
Sky "search and scan" functionality)

Ok, with you now.

Roger R