hd picture resolution

I am a recent upgrader to hdtv. I have a subscription to Cablevision
HD. My Samsung tv is 1080i capable. I live on eastern Long Island
about 100' above sea level. As such Connecticut stations boom in
here. I can watch over the air or cable signals. Two stations in
Connecticut, NBC 30 out of Hartford, and CPTV (PBS) 24 broadcast in
1080i. Channel 8 in New Haven broadcasts 720. The rest are 480.

When I change a station over the air, the tv tells me what the signal
resolution is. Not so with cable.

I was watching the NBC broadcast of the innauguration and toggling
back and forth between "air" and "cable". The 1080i signal incredible
by comparison.

Are cable signals typically 720 or less? Is that also true for
satellite? I thought the Channel 8 signal looked like cable quality.

Is this going to improve going forward?

All replies appreciated. Ron

On Jan 22, 7:03*am, Ronald Rickenbach wrote:
I am a recent upgrader to hdtv. *I have a subscription to Cablevision
HD. *My Samsung tv is 1080i capable. *I live on eastern Long Island
about 100' above sea level. *As such Connecticut stations boom in
here. *I can watch over the air or cable signals. *Two stations in
Connecticut, NBC 30 out of Hartford, and CPTV (PBS) 24 broadcast in
1080i. *Channel 8 in New Haven broadcasts 720. *The rest are 480.

When I change a station over the air, the tv tells me what the signal
resolution is. *Not so with cable.

I was watching the NBC broadcast of the innauguration and toggling
back and forth between "air" and "cable". *The 1080i signal incredible
by comparison.

Are cable signals typically 720 or less? *Is that also true for
satellite? *I thought the Channel 8 signal looked like cable quality.

Is this going to improve going forward?

All replies appreciated. *Ron

What kind of set top box do you have and how is it connected to your
TV?, (HDMI,component).
You might have your set top box configured wrong. It might be set to
output fixed, say like 720P or 480P.
On the 8300 box, it tells you the resolution on the front display.

Ronald Rickenbach wrote:
I am a recent upgrader to hdtv. I have a subscription to Cablevision
HD. My Samsung tv is 1080i capable. I live on eastern Long Island
about 100' above sea level. As such Connecticut stations boom in
here. I can watch over the air or cable signals. Two stations in
Connecticut, NBC 30 out of Hartford, and CPTV (PBS) 24 broadcast in
1080i. Channel 8 in New Haven broadcasts 720. The rest are 480.

When I change a station over the air, the tv tells me what the signal
resolution is. Not so with cable.

I was watching the NBC broadcast of the innauguration and toggling
back and forth between "air" and "cable". The 1080i signal incredible
by comparison.

Are cable signals typically 720 or less? Is that also true for
satellite? I thought the Channel 8 signal looked like cable quality.


Ron:
Cable boxes can come in 3 performance versions:
Cable boxes that process only Analog TV signals
Cable Boxes that process both Analog & Digital stations in Std Def
Boxes that process Analog & Digital Stations in both Std Def & Hi Def

Item 1 above is 480i, Item 2 480i & 480p, Item 3 480i,480p,720p, & 1080i



Is this going to improve going forward?

All replies appreciated. Ron

"Ronald Rickenbach" wrote in message
...
I am a recent upgrader to hdtv. I have a subscription to Cablevision
HD. My Samsung tv is 1080i capable. I live on eastern Long Island
about 100' above sea level. As such Connecticut stations boom in
here. I can watch over the air or cable signals. Two stations in
Connecticut, NBC 30 out of Hartford, and CPTV (PBS) 24 broadcast in
1080i. Channel 8 in New Haven broadcasts 720. The rest are 480.

When I change a station over the air, the tv tells me what the signal
resolution is. Not so with cable.

I was watching the NBC broadcast of the innauguration and toggling
back and forth between "air" and "cable". The 1080i signal incredible
by comparison.

Are cable signals typically 720 or less? Is that also true for
satellite? I thought the Channel 8 signal looked like cable quality.

Is this going to improve going forward?

All replies appreciated. Ron

Not all stations broadcast at the same resolution or in HD for that matter.
ABC tends to broadcast in 720P, where as NBC and CBS in 1080i. Some of the
independent stations, who don't have any HD programs to show, will broadcast
in 480i/p. You have to keep in mind, just because it's Digital, it may not
necessarily be in HD.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:03:40 -0500, Ronald Rickenbach
wrote:

When I change a station over the air, the tv tells me what the signal
resolution is. Not so with cable.

I was watching the NBC broadcast of the innauguration and toggling
back and forth between "air" and "cable". The 1080i signal incredible
by comparison.

Are you sure your toggleing between the HD cable feed and the antenna?
Here our local cable company has both an SD and HD feed (on different
channels) of the local networks. Most of the time I can't see a
difference between the HD cable feed and the OTA signal.
YMMV.

Mike O.

"Ronald Rickenbach" wrote in message
...
I am a recent upgrader to hdtv. I have a subscription to Cablevision
HD. My Samsung tv is 1080i capable. I live on eastern Long Island
about 100' above sea level. As such Connecticut stations boom in
here. I can watch over the air or cable signals. Two stations in
Connecticut, NBC 30 out of Hartford, and CPTV (PBS) 24 broadcast in
1080i. Channel 8 in New Haven broadcasts 720. The rest are 480.

When I change a station over the air, the tv tells me what the signal
resolution is. Not so with cable.

I was watching the NBC broadcast of the innauguration and toggling
back and forth between "air" and "cable". The 1080i signal incredible
by comparison.

Are cable signals typically 720 or less? Is that also true for
satellite? I thought the Channel 8 signal looked like cable quality.

Is this going to improve going forward?

All replies appreciated. Ron

Most Channels are in 1080i format with a few exceptions like ESPN is 720P
and I think FOX is also, and a few others, but most are 1080i. This is for
a couple of reasons, #1 1080i shows more Detail then 720P. Secondly
because transmitting 1080i is less Data then 720P!! Means it doesn't have
to be compressed as much as 720P to fit in the same amount of space. It
seems like this wouldn't be true, but it is.

Normally your watching TV in the U.S. at 60 frames per Second. That's 60
720 Progressive frames per Second. On the other Hand with 1080i, it's
really 60 540 Interlaced Frames. It takes 2 Frames, one 540 Odd frames and
1 540 Even frame INTERLACED to make a whole 1080i picture, So in Reality
your getting 30 full frames per second with 1080i. This is how your old
SDTV worked, but with 240 odd and 240 even lines for a 480i picture. 540
lines per second is LESS then 720 lines per second!!!

So yes, it's tricking your eye's, and for most people it's fine. Some
people can see more of a flickering then others with this effect. As for
YOUR HDTV, I'm pretty sure it's NOT 1080i!!! No such thing as a Interlaced
Plasma or LCD Display. They are Progressive type displays. Your ONLY going
to get true Interlace is from a CRT(TUBE) type display. A Direct View, Rear
Projection, or Front Projection display. My last HDTV was a 1080i display.
A Mitsubishi 42" CRT Rear Projection display. THAT was a true 1080i HDTV!!!

Now LCD's and Plasma's can accept Multiple Input formats and then Scale the
Image to fit the Display on it's own. If your saying 1080i, I'm guessing
it's really a 720P Display, and as most 720P displays these days are REALLY
768P Displays, that's what you really have!!! Sure you can use a 1080i
Input and your HDTV will scale that image down and De-Interlace it on it's
own. Unlike CRT display's, a LCD or Plasma will Display whatever input you
give it at it's Natural Video Resolution. Even if your watching a DVD and
it's outputting 480i to your HDTV, your HDTV will Scale the image UP and
De-Interlace it to be displayed. Doesn't matter if you have a Up converting
DVD player or not!!!

Most Cable HD channels are also in 1080i!!! The problem is that to fit all
the HD channels on, they are compressed more then what you would pick up
using your Antenna. In fact you would get even a better picture watching a
Blu-Ray Movie!!! Some HD channels are compressed more then others also.
Also adjusting your HDTV will help with the picture if you haven't touched
the setting yet. I suggest you go here and enter what HDTV you have and see
if they have some Specs posted. It should get you pretty good. Not like a
Real Calibration job from a Pro, but will be better then leaving it stock!!!
http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/

Make sure your Cable Box is set to the Right Resolution!!! Because I'm
guessing you really have a 768P display and there's no settings for that,
you can use either 720P or 1080i and see what looks better to you. I know
on my Cable Box, I have to turn it OFF and then I can hit the Menu button
for the cable Box settings, where I set what Resolution I want for example.
You may want to check this. This is also why your HDTV is not going to
change what it Displays as a Resolution for the different channels, if you
set the Box to 720P, that's what the Box will Output. Same with 1080i. The
Box is Scaling the Channels to what you set it for. So No matter if it's
1080i or 720P the cable Box will Output them all to what you have the Box
set to. You do have a HD cable Box and are watching the HD channels and not
the SD versions?!?! I can get both and like 7 is SD for me while 707 is HD
for me on my cable Box. My HD channels start at 701 (HD On Demand) and go
up. All the channels below that and there are many more SD channels are
lower and I don't even bother looking at them anymore.

On Jan 22, 11:50*pm, "JBDragon" wrote:

Most Channels are in 1080i format with a few exceptions like ESPN
is 720P
and I think FOX is also, and a few others, but most are 1080i.
*This is for
a couple of reasons, #1 1080i shows more Detail then 720P.
*Secondly
because transmitting 1080i is less Data then 720P!! *Means it
doesn't have
to be compressed as much as 720P to fit in the same amount of
space. *It
seems like this wouldn't be true, but it is.

Data rate is the same. 1/2 the pixels, twice the frames for 720P

Fox _is_ 720P along with ABC as well as ESPN which you noted.

Normally your watching TV in the U.S. *at 60 frames per Second.
*That's 60
720 Progressive frames per Second. * On the other Hand with 1080i,
it's
really 60 540 Interlaced Frames. *It takes 2 Frames, one 540 Odd
frames and
1 540 Even frame INTERLACED to make a whole 1080i picture, So in
Reality
your getting 30 full frames per second with 1080i. * This is how
your old
SDTV worked, but with 240 odd and 240 even lines for a 480i
picture. * 540
lines per second is LESS then 720 lines per second!!!

You don't seem to grasp how interlacing is actually done. For _film_
transfer, the film is scanned 1 time per frame and stored in a
framestore. Field 1 reads out the odd numbered lines while field 2 is
even. You imply that the same data is sent 2 times but that is
definitely not the case. The 3:2 sequencing is done by repeating
fields so that the 24 FRAMES maps into the 60 FIELDS. This is not
ideal in that there is a motion discontinuity called 'judder' but it's
been that way since the dawn of TV so it's nothing new. 120 frame sets
should be able display 5 frames per film frame and not have the
judder. Note that 720P has the same 3:2 issue.

With 1080 cameras that scan interlaced, it gets much more messy since
motion between fields will be captured but de-interlacing for the
progressive displays is more difficult

So yes, it's tricking your eye's, and for most people it's fine.
*Some
people can see more of a flickering then others with this effect.
*As for
YOUR HDTV, I'm pretty sure it's NOT 1080i!!! *No such thing as a
Interlaced
Plasma or LCD Display. *They are Progressive type displays. *Your
ONLY going
to get true Interlace is from a CRT(TUBE) type display. A Direct
View, Rear
Projection, or Front Projection display. *My last HDTV was a 1080i
display.
A Mitsubishi 42" CRT Rear Projection display. *THAT was a true
1080i HDTV!!!

But is was so blurry who could tell?

Now LCD's and Plasma's can accept Multiple Input formats and then
Scale the
Image to fit the Display on it's own. *If your saying 1080i, I'm
guessing
it's really a 720P Display, and as most 720P displays these days
are REALLY
768P Displays, that's what you really have!!! *Sure you can use a
1080i
Input and your HDTV will scale that image down and De-Interlace it
on it's
own. * Unlike CRT display's, a LCD or Plasma will Display whatever
input you
give it at it's Natural Video Resolution. *Even if your watching a
DVD and
it's outputting 480i to your HDTV, your HDTV will Scale the image
UP and
De-Interlace it to be displayed. *Doesn't matter if you have a Up
converting
DVD player or not!!!

Most Cable HD channels are also in 1080i!!! *The problem is that to
fit all
the HD channels on, they are compressed more then what you would
pick up
using your Antenna. * In fact you would get even a better picture
watching a
Blu-Ray Movie!!! * Some HD channels are compressed more then others
also.
Also adjusting your HDTV will help with the picture if you haven't
touched
the setting yet. *I suggest you go here and enter what HDTV you
have and see
if they have some Specs posted. *It should get you pretty good.
*Not like a
Real Calibration job from a Pro, but will be better then leaving it
stock!!!http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/

Make sure your Cable Box is set to the Right Resolution!!! *Because
I'm
guessing you really have a 768P display and there's no settings for
that,
you can use either 720P or 1080i and see what looks better to you.
*I know
on my Cable Box, I have to turn it OFF and then I can hit the Menu
button
for the cable Box settings, where I set what Resolution I want for
example.
You may want to check this. *This is also why your HDTV is not
going to
change what it Displays as a Resolution for the different channels,
if you
set the Box to 720P, that's what the Box will Output. *Same with
1080i. *The
Box is Scaling the Channels to what you set it for. *So No matter
if it's
1080i or 720P the cable Box will Output them all to what you have
the Box
set to. *You do have a HD cable Box and are watching the HD
channels and not
the SD versions?!?! *I can get both and like 7 is SD for me while
707 is HD
for me on my cable Box. My HD channels start at 701 (HD On Demand)
and go
up. *All the channels below that and there are many more SD
channels are
lower and I don't even bother looking at them anymore.

G²

"G-squared" wrote in message
...
On Jan 22, 11:50 pm, "JBDragon" wrote:

Most Channels are in 1080i format with a few exceptions like ESPN
is 720P
and I think FOX is also, and a few others, but most are 1080i.
This is for
a couple of reasons, #1 1080i shows more Detail then 720P.
Secondly
because transmitting 1080i is less Data then 720P!! Means it
doesn't have
to be compressed as much as 720P to fit in the same amount of
space. It
seems like this wouldn't be true, but it is.

Data rate is the same. 1/2 the pixels, twice the frames for 720P

Fox _is_ 720P along with ABC as well as ESPN which you noted.

Normally your watching TV in the U.S. at 60 frames per Second.
That's 60
720 Progressive frames per Second. On the other Hand with 1080i,
it's
really 60 540 Interlaced Frames. It takes 2 Frames, one 540 Odd
frames and
1 540 Even frame INTERLACED to make a whole 1080i picture, So in
Reality
your getting 30 full frames per second with 1080i. This is how
your old
SDTV worked, but with 240 odd and 240 even lines for a 480i
picture. 540
lines per second is LESS then 720 lines per second!!!

You don't seem to grasp how interlacing is actually done. For _film_
transfer, the film is scanned 1 time per frame and stored in a
framestore. Field 1 reads out the odd numbered lines while field 2 is
even. You imply that the same data is sent 2 times but that is
definitely not the case. The 3:2 sequencing is done by repeating
fields so that the 24 FRAMES maps into the 60 FIELDS. This is not
ideal in that there is a motion discontinuity called 'judder' but it's
been that way since the dawn of TV so it's nothing new. 120 frame sets
should be able display 5 frames per film frame and not have the
judder. Note that 720P has the same 3:2 issue.

No I said it takes 2 frames, One with the Odd Lines and one with the EVEN
lines, which get put togeather to make a whole Picture. Well they would be
but togeather on a Progressive display, on a Interlaced Display, you see the
Odd Lines on one frame and then the Even lines in the Next frame, but since
it's going fast enough to trick your eye's, it looks like it's togather. I
wasn't even getting into DVD's and BLu-Ray's and their 24 frames per Second
Rate and 3:2 pulldown. That's a whole nother matter. Of course 720P has
the same 3:2 pulldown problem, though I think it's Minor and most people
don't notice it. Whatever the Resolution on MOST TV's, SD or HD, they're
60 frames per scond. You got to get the 24 frames from a MOVIE to 60 frames
somehow. The whole 120 Hz HDTV's I think is a Marketing thing to help with
LCD's Lack of good motion flow. From what I hear, most people turn it OFF
because it just doesn't look right. My Panasonic Plasma picture looks
great. Nice moving, Flowing, Natural looking picture.

Again though, 540 Odd Lines in 1 frame, then 540 Even lines in the next
frame, 2 frames make a complete 1080i Picture. Since it takes 2 frames,
your really getting 30 full picture frames per second. Yes your getting 60,
but it takes 2 passes for each full Frame. At least full frame to your
eye's. The Screen is Drawn from Top to bottom, Odd lines, and then it Starts
back on the top and goes top to bottom on the Even lines. It does this so
fast you see a whole picture. You can also see this effect done at a
Concert for example using a single Lazer to Draw a complex Picture. It's
moving so fast it looks like a solid Image. That's also still faster then
24 frames on DVD's and Blu-Ray's. The Diifferance from 1080i to 1080P is
small. It's more so the type of display being used. CRT is TUBE, that
means 1080i, LCD/Plasma is 1080P Even the older cheaper Plasma's a few
years ago were 480P. A Progressive Display is going to look a bit better
then Interlaced, more so with some people then other's. It will generally
look a bit Smoother, Sharper, because your seeing 60 FULL Complete frames
with 1080P, while with 1080i your seeing 60 Half 540 line Frames, or 30 Full
Interlaced Frames if you want to look at it like that. You can see this
effect on PC's with Graphic Cards, Getting Faster and Faster and bumping up
the Frame rates faster and faster, even though 30 would be good, 60 is
better, and even faster then that is better yet. Even though your Eye sight
can't possibly see that many frames per second, it just looks better.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:22:13 -0800, "JBDragon"
wrote:


"G-squared" wrote in message
...
On Jan 22, 11:50 pm, "JBDragon" wrote:

Most Channels are in 1080i format with a few exceptions like ESPN
is 720P
and I think FOX is also, and a few others, but most are 1080i.
This is for
a couple of reasons, #1 1080i shows more Detail then 720P.
Secondly
because transmitting 1080i is less Data then 720P!! Means it
doesn't have
to be compressed as much as 720P to fit in the same amount of
space. It
seems like this wouldn't be true, but it is.

Data rate is the same. 1/2 the pixels, twice the frames for 720P
....

The raw data rate for the number of pixels per second is 12% higher
for the 1080i/30 (half frames in 60Hz) than 720p/60.

The real data rate used in the broadcast is a parameter that somebody
has to choose (and divide among the different channels that share the
same multiplex.)

Some say that the 720p survives the MPEG data reduction better (better
perceived quality) than 1080i at the same chosen data rate.

For moving pictures, the number of pixels is not all that is
important. The resolution in time domain (frame rate of the material)
and the real transfered data rate (MPEG data reduction) is of high
importance.

Then, of course, if the source material is in 30 (or 25) frames per
second, the time domain resolution does not increase by broadcasting
the same frame again to broadcast 720p/60 Hz. But it removes the
trouble for the TV to analyse (and potentially) do mistakes when
trying to de-interlace the signal. Appearantly there are many TV
models that have problems to do this right.

Mikepier wrote:
On the 8300 box, it tells you the resolution on the front display.


My cable box always displays 1080i, even if the broadcaster (e.g.,
WABC) is transmitting 720p.

Art Harris