photographs of scant relevance

On Nov 30, 12:22*am, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

Speaking hypothetically, suppose a young fellow was to join an established
social group,

Suppose this "established social group" was really just a few random
people on the internet who had never even met and who barely knew each
other.

which consisted mostly of men. The men are of all ages.

But mostly old buggers. By the way, you changed from the past to the
present tense just there - tut tut.

Maybe he starts work in a hospital, a university, or some similar institution, in
the Works Department. Maybe he joins the staff of a large private boys'
school.

Or maybe he just reads a third-rate internet forum (aka newsgroup)
which very few people subscribe to, spots a few people on there with
delusions of grandeur and lack of clue, and trolls them a bit.

The social groupings that have developed amongst the other men are
at their most obvious in the canteen or staffroom, and it's in that venue
where our young man wants to make his mark.

Now, these social groupings, they're a bit funny, because although the
staffroom is full of broadcast engineers, control room operators and
the like, it's always this lowly aerial rigger chap who sits at the
head of the table and acts like he owns the place!

He's a bit insecure generally, and is desperate to get on with his new
colleagues, and to win their respect.

Indeed, if he gets any more insecure and desperate for attention,
he'll be forced to start making up funny stories about times past and
present.
I guess he could call it "Student's Diary".

He contributes quite sensibly and helpfully to some of the
discussions that arise,

In fact some of the older chaps have learned things from him, although
some are loathe to admit it.

but such is his desperation to win friends he also
embarks on a course of action that proves to be counter-productive, to say
the least. With no knowledge of the network of relationships, alliances, and
mutual respect that exists under the surface in that works canteen

This complex network, with all those relationship, respect and
alliance arrows pointing to the chap who thinks he owns the place,
could take an age for this poor child to work out.

he starts to snipe at a few of the older men, in the hope that it will make him 'look
good'. The sniping being largely ignored -- out of embarrassment -- he
escalates it to the point of direct attacks and personal abuse. This could
best be likened to walking into a lions' den blindfolded and poking about
with a sharp stick to see what happens.

This -horrific- snipe, which involved our poor, clueless child
disagreeing with a few of the older men's political views, caused
outrage and disgust, and then to make matters worse he launched a
devastating attack - he suggested that the chap who thinks he owns the
place might actually have been wrong on a minor technical point!
Well, the head of the canteen table was suddenly awash with "Ignore
what that young whipper-snapper says - the fool dares to question me -
he's only doing this because I'm old and he feels inferior to me
really - after all I am fantastic and perfect in every way - him with
his fancy degree and all that, thinks he knows better - I've been
doing this job since his mother was in nappies - I wish the little
****er had never been born - when will young people ever learn to be
decent like us...". There was a round of applause from the "decent"
folk.

Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

In other words, he must find out which people's boots to lick in order
to survive. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why society never moves
on.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:27:51 -0800, Jamie_p84 wrote:

By the way, you changed from the past to the present tense just
there - tut tut.

That is perfectly acceptable in story telling -- you obviously have
never heard of the historic present tense.

Or maybe he just reads a third-rate internet forum (aka newsgroup)

Therein lies the enigma.

Why would such a brilliant young thing waste his time reading and
posting to an alleged bunch of deadbeats in a third rate forum?

Indeed, if he gets any more insecure and desperate for attention

Maybe he should seek counseling from his student advisory service
to deal with these behavioral issues.

it's always this lowly aerial rigger chap

Arrogance has already been demonstrated, now snobbery rears its ugly head.

In fact some of the older chaps have learned things from him, although
some are loathe to admit it.

There is much wisdom in the saying

"Do no try to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs."

In other words, he must find out which people's boots to lick in
order to survive.

You are a fool not to realize that this sad state of affairs is
inevitable and exists in all societies, be they communist,
bourgeois liberal democratic, or fascist.

In article , Bill Wright
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Bill Wright
writes

Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself
in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

Marky P has come a long way hasn't he . . .

Haven't we all?

But anyway you aren't fair to Marky. He's never behaved in an anti-social
way.

I thought the outside picture of the loft spike in the rawlplug was
pretty rude.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

wrote in message
...
On Nov 30, 12:22 am, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

Speaking hypothetically, suppose a young fellow was to join an established
social group,

Suppose this "established social group" was really just a few random
people on the internet who had never even met and who barely knew each
other.

which consisted mostly of men. The men are of all ages.

But mostly old buggers. By the way, you changed from the past to the
present tense just there - tut tut.

Maybe he starts work in a hospital, a university, or some similar
institution, in
the Works Department. Maybe he joins the staff of a large private boys'
school.

Or maybe he just reads a third-rate internet forum (aka newsgroup)
which very few people subscribe to, spots a few people on there with
delusions of grandeur and lack of clue, and trolls them a bit.

The social groupings that have developed amongst the other men are
at their most obvious in the canteen or staffroom, and it's in that venue
where our young man wants to make his mark.

Now, these social groupings, they're a bit funny, because although the
staffroom is full of broadcast engineers, control room operators and
the like, it's always this lowly aerial rigger chap who sits at the
head of the table and acts like he owns the place!

He's a bit insecure generally, and is desperate to get on with his new
colleagues, and to win their respect.

Indeed, if he gets any more insecure and desperate for attention,
he'll be forced to start making up funny stories about times past and
present.
I guess he could call it "Student's Diary".

He contributes quite sensibly and helpfully to some of the
discussions that arise,

In fact some of the older chaps have learned things from him, although
some are loathe to admit it.

but such is his desperation to win friends he also
embarks on a course of action that proves to be counter-productive, to say
the least. With no knowledge of the network of relationships, alliances,
and
mutual respect that exists under the surface in that works canteen

This complex network, with all those relationship, respect and
alliance arrows pointing to the chap who thinks he owns the place,
could take an age for this poor child to work out.

he starts to snipe at a few of the older men, in the hope that it will
make him 'look
good'. The sniping being largely ignored -- out of embarrassment -- he
escalates it to the point of direct attacks and personal abuse. This could
best be likened to walking into a lions' den blindfolded and poking about
with a sharp stick to see what happens.

This -horrific- snipe, which involved our poor, clueless child
disagreeing with a few of the older men's political views, caused
outrage and disgust, and then to make matters worse he launched a
devastating attack - he suggested that the chap who thinks he owns the
place might actually have been wrong on a minor technical point!
Well, the head of the canteen table was suddenly awash with "Ignore
what that young whipper-snapper says - the fool dares to question me -
he's only doing this because I'm old and he feels inferior to me
really - after all I am fantastic and perfect in every way - him with
his fancy degree and all that, thinks he knows better - I've been
doing this job since his mother was in nappies - I wish the little
****er had never been born - when will young people ever learn to be
decent like us...". There was a round of applause from the "decent"
folk.

Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself
in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

In other words, he must find out which people's boots to lick in order
to survive. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why society never moves
on.

I think Jamie has passed the initiation ceremony and
I for one vote he be admitted to the Lodge... er I mean
Group.


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

wrote in message
...
On Nov 29, 7:40 pm, "Bill Wright"
wrote:
"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message

Is that you with your tube of no-more-nails?

It is indeed. I'd just used it to fix a 3 metre dish to its mount.

Have you heard of 'screws'? They're quite handy for things like that


Don't you Diss "No-more-nails" you looking for trouble?

Steve Terry

Bill Wright wrote:
"JohnT" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Nov 29, 7:40 pm, "Bill Wright"
wrote:
"Ron Lowe" ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote in message
Is that you with your tube of no-more-nails?
It is indeed. I'd just used it to fix a 3 metre dish to its mount.
Have you heard of 'screws'? They're quite handy for things like that


You ARE new here!

I have Billy Conelley's World Tour of Australia on in the background and
just as I read Jamie's comment, Billy's anecdote included the words, 'You
stupid little prick!'

Speaking hypothetically, suppose a young fellow was to join an established
social group, which consisted mostly of men. The men are of all ages. Maybe
he starts work in a hospital, a university, or some similar institution, in
the Works Department. Maybe he joins the staff of a large private boys'
school. The social groupings that have developed amongst the other men are
at their most obvious in the canteen or staffroom, and it's in that venue
where our young man wants to make his mark. He's a bit insecure generally,
and is desperate to get on with his new colleagues, and to win their
respect. He contributes quite sensibly and helpfully to some of the
discussions that arise, but such is his desperation to win friends he also
embarks on a course of action that proves to be counter-productive, to say
the least. With no knowledge of the network of relationships, alliances, and
mutual respect that exists under the surface in that works canteen he starts
to snipe at a few of the older men, in the hope that it will make him 'look
good'. The sniping being largely ignored -- out of embarrassment -- he
escalates it to the point of direct attacks and personal abuse. This could
best be likened to walking into a lions' den blindfolded and poking about
with a sharp stick to see what happens.

This pretty much has no relevance to any internet based forum / group-
they are a differnt beast- and part of their amusement value is young
fresh trolls making an arse of themselves- and sometime providing decent
input. It is not an old boys club and never should be.


Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

Bill

I've no idea why you took the bait on this one Bill - you too would have
looked a lot better by just leaving his comment to stand and pretty much
everyone woudl have though jamie's comments pretty lame and stupid.
Your rant above only serves to lower your own position.

cheers

David

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:35:22 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Bill Wright
writes

Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself
in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

Marky P has come a long way hasn't he . . .

Haven't we all?

But anyway you aren't fair to Marky. He's never behaved in an anti-social
way.

Bill

Only in the streets at night after kicking out time :-)


Marky P.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:19:16 +0000, fred wrote:

In article , Bill Wright
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , Bill Wright
writes

Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself
in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

Marky P has come a long way hasn't he . . .

Haven't we all?

But anyway you aren't fair to Marky. He's never behaved in an anti-social
way.

I thought the outside picture of the loft spike in the rawlplug was
pretty rude.

With all the controversy that gained, I should've put it in the Tate
gallery :-)

Unmade bed? Pah! Check out that loft lance in the wall!

Marky P.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:52:20 +0000, fred wrote:

In article , Bill Wright
writes

Years later the young man is to look back and cringe at his earlier
behaviour. He now knows that before you start to make a name for yourself in
any sort of group you must first sit quietly at the back for as long as it
takes to learn something about the people in the group. Otherwise you risk
looking like a total arse.

Marky P has come a long way hasn't he . . .

I'm just pleased you remember me. My brother forgot my birthday this
year. He won't forget the next one.

Marky P.

"DM" wrote in message
. uk...
This pretty much has no relevance to any internet based forum / group-
they are a differnt beast- and part of their amusement value is young
fresh trolls making an arse of themselves- and sometime providing decent
input. It is not an old boys club and never should be.

I deliberately made the point that the group includes people of all ages.
Likening it to a works canteen should have emphasised the point. How can a
newsgroup be an old boys' club? Surely in this medium all contributions are
valued by their intrinsic merit. If someone comes along and commits a series
of gauche, cringe-making faux pas, it might cause an 'ageist' reaction
though!

I've no idea why you took the bait on this one Bill - you too would have
looked a lot better by just leaving his comment to stand and pretty much
everyone woudl have though jamie's comments pretty lame and stupid. Your
rant above only serves to lower your own position.

Good heavens, do you call that a rant? I thought it was a calm and reasoned
response. It was written mainly for amusement -- my amusement, but I hope a
few other people saw the truth in it and smiled wryly. As for 'looking
better' and 'lowering my position' -- this is usenet, not real life! Who
cares! Many of us here adopt a persona more designed to elicit a response
than to enhance our own image. If I cared about my personal image here I
wouldn't say a lot that I do in fact come out with.

It was hardly a case of taking the bait. It merely gave me a chance to put
into words some thoughts I had on the subject.

I was rather touched by Jamie's assertion that I was some sort of godfather
figure in this group. Clearly he was a bit overawed when he said that,
finding himself in such esteemed and erudite company, from his perspective!
I can prove that he was wrong though. Look back to the periods when I have
been absent for weeks on end and you will see that I haven't been missed.
That, of course, is how it should be.

This particular newsgroup has a lot of very clever contributors. With the
decline of the trade and enthusiast press, newsgroups have become a vital
source of information. The main reason I'm here is because I learn a lot.
But I also write stuff here that amuses me -- writing as relaxation, just
for the hell of it -- and often I'm writing for the consumption of half a
dozen other contributors who I know will be amused or interested. I guess
many of us do that. It's also good to have a place where you can practice
the art of putting your thoughts into prose form.

Bill