What made 1% of Freeview boxes "stop working"?

On 2008-08-12, David wrote:


"BJH" wrote in message

I tried to talk to Sony customer service (?) and gave up!


Daewoo do not want to know either, not Argos.
I've e-mailed Ofcom

You can pick different name off their web site if you wish.
Suggest all effected complain to Ofcom

Remember what other changes going to be made to effect more boxes.

The problem seems to be that you were sold equipment that is (only
recently) unfit for purpose. That looks like a trading standards matter.
In this respect your contract is with whoever sold the kit to you.

However the box has (I assume) worked well for a number of years and
that may well fall within a reasonable expectation for its lifetime.

In any case the cost of replacing the box (even assuming that covers 1%
of the population as in the thread's title) is moderately small for
most people. As a result I expect you may get some small amount of
polite sympathy from TS but nothing more. I doubt you would get any
more from Ofcom.

--
John Phillips

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Mark Carver
writes
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Is there any way of telling - ideally without opening - whether one has
an 8k-compatible OnDigital box or not?

Didn't you read all the contributions to the thread you started on July
11th,
in uk.tech.broadcast titled "obsolescent Freeview STBs on Y&Y".

I think I did.

Possible clues lie within that.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk...._frm/thread/3f
3928505bf64dfc?hl=en#

Ah, you mean the ...

" Is there a list of OnDigital boxes that can't handle 8k?
Never seen one, and any support died along with ITV Digital.
I'm guessing, but perhaps the later 8k models (if they exist at all)
might have an ITV Digital logo on the front rather than the OnD one.
(Don't be fooled by that silly ITV Digital front panel sticker that was
sent out to all the customers shortly after the rebranding :-) )"

... section. With "AFAIK the only ones which were 2K-only used a Motorola
chip set. Whip the top off and have a look... " a few posts later. I was
wondering if there was a way of telling without the whipping, as it were -
and/or if anyone else can confirm the suggestion (that if it isn't
Motorola it's OK). Someone also posted a pointer to the BBC white paper at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp...les/WHP029.pdf, which was
mostly about trying out different 2K modes, though a footnote on page 2 (5
in the .pdf) says "A brief test...the 9 STBs changing...to the equivalent
8K mode. None of the STB's was able to recognise the 8K variant."

I see my ...

"How do I replace my box?
Owners of Daewoo, Portland and Bush branded digital boxes should call
the appropriate number below for further assistance:"
Has anyone here done so, and if so what do they say?

... section only got one ("Would be very interested to know.") answer. [I
agree with the end of that post, but of course it isn't going to happen
(-:!]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985
MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on
PCs. **

At least with a British car, you know that everything that falls off it is
a
product of true British workmanship. (Lord somethingorother on Robin Day's
programme, 1980-1-15.)

I can add that my Echostar Freeview box bought in 2006 won't work correctly
after a retune. My region, (Anglia) did the upgrade on 5th August). Now BBC1
is on 815, BBC2 on 802 and many other channels in crazy places. Nothing is
set to appear from channels 1-4 at all.

Graham

"John Phillips" wrote in message
As a result I expect you may get some small amount of
polite sympathy from TS but nothing more. I doubt you would get any
more from Ofcom.


No TS have responded and given me instructions on what to do next.
Which I have now done. IE Make an offical not fit for purpose claim to my
suppliers Head Office.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

"David" wrote in message
...


"John Phillips" wrote in message
As a result I expect you may get some small amount of
polite sympathy from TS but nothing more. I doubt you would get any
more from Ofcom.


No TS have responded and given me instructions on what to do next.
Which I have now done. IE Make an offical not fit for purpose claim to
my suppliers Head Office.

Just playing devil's advocate here but,
In that case couldn't people say that analogue TVs are not fit for purpose
after the digital switchover?
Surely once the boxes are out of warranty they've served their purpose?

Still its worth a try.

Z

"Zimmy" wrote in message

Just playing devil's advocate here but,
In that case couldn't people say that analogue TVs are not fit for purpose
after the digital switchover?
Surely once the boxes are out of warranty they've served their purpose?


I think the comparable situation would be if a within spec. change was made
at the transmitter for analogue was made and put some TV set tuners off.

Many of us have been given 7 years notice of switch off, a great many
replacing TV sets within this time. Would we say a TV set should last 5
maybe 7 years, to be fit for purpose.
Anyway the present analogue TV set can still be used with some sort of add
on box, in my case I bought a Freeview box.

In the first region to switch it was reported here that the people reluctant
to convert were being offered boxes at very cheap less than shop prices.
Last I read was that under 150 holding out, maybe the last ones given a free
box?

When the 405 VHF transmitters turned off the last few were given 625 UHF Tv
sets, it was kept a secret for 40 years! Came out a while back on one of
those 40 years have past releases I read.

Your last point no the warranty period nothing to do with the life one
expects from a product.


--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

On 2008-08-13, David wrote:


"John Phillips" wrote in message
As a result I expect you may get some small amount of
polite sympathy from TS but nothing more. I doubt you would get any
more from Ofcom.

No TS have responded and given me instructions on what to do next.
Which I have now done. IE Make an offical not fit for purpose claim to my
suppliers Head Office.

Very interesting. Please do keep us informed.

--
John Phillips

In article , David
wrote:


When the 405 VHF transmitters turned off the last few were given 625 UHF
Tv sets, it was kept a secret for 40 years! Came out a while back on
one of those 40 years have past releases I read.

very unlikely. Since transmissions did not stop until 1984 (generally), it
can hardly be a 40 year old secret. I was at the fairly sharp end - no sets
were given out on a national basis, but there was nothing to stop some
local charities buying sets for those who couldn't afford them. I think
they did.

Most of those left with 405 sets couldn't get 625 anyway. But I did visit
someone in Devon who wonder why he had to replace a perfectly good set
which was only turned on for the BBC 9 O'Clock News. It was still working
perfectly.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Aug 14, 10:19 am, "David" wrote:
"Zimmy" wrote in

Just playing devil's advocate here but,
In that case couldn't people say that analogue TVs are not fit for purpose
after the digital switchover?
Surely once the boxes are out of warranty they've served their purpose?

I think the comparable situation would be if a within spec. change was made
at the transmitter for analogue was made and put some TV set tuners off.

When colour TV came in the PAL system had to be designed so that old
kit - ie B&W TV still worked. It should be the same with digital
whether it be old ON-digital boxes or some of these cut price newer
ones. Joe Public is not an engineer - how is he supposed to know
whether his STB didn't meet the spec? The TV companies kept telling
him to go out and buy one. Well now he has they should bloody well
make sure his box works until it dies. Its their fault if they didn't
insist on boxes meeting certain minimum specs , not the general
publics and if some boxes will soon stop working they should bloody
well sort it out instead of pretending its not their problem and just
assuming people will buy new kit whenever the need arises. I realise
Britain is a throwaway society but this just taking the ****.

B2003

In article
, Boltar
wrote:
On Aug 14, 10:19 am, "David" wrote:
"Zimmy" wrote in


Just playing devil's advocate here but, In that case couldn't people
say that analogue TVs are not fit for purpose after the digital
switchover? Surely once the boxes are out of warranty they've served
their purpose?

I think the comparable situation would be if a within spec. change was
made at the transmitter for analogue was made and put some TV set
tuners off.

When colour TV came in the PAL system had to be designed so that old kit
- ie B&W TV still worked. It should be the same with digital whether it
be old ON-digital boxes or some of these cut price newer ones. Joe Public
is not an engineer - how is he supposed to know whether his STB didn't
meet the spec? The TV companies kept telling him to go out and buy one.
Well now he has they should bloody well make sure his box works until it
dies. Its their fault if they didn't insist on boxes meeting certain
minimum specs ,

the tv companies have no control over what is sold in the shops. You'd be
amongst the first to complain if they did. Once upon a time, all the
products for tv reception were made in this country by British firms. They
were members of BREMA and made sure things abided by the spec. Nowadays
its a "free" market.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

charles wrote:


the tv companies have no control over what is sold in the shops. You'd be
amongst the first to complain if they did. Once upon a time, all the
products for tv reception were made in this country by British firms. They
were members of BREMA and made sure things abided by the spec. Nowadays
its a "free" market.


Major vendors like Argos and DSG need to be properly made aware of this
fiasco, and the reasons behind it, and be fined for selling unfit for
purpose kit.
Then, and only then, might they be inclined to get the DTT receivers
they intend to sell properly benchmarked and tested by the DTG.

It's certainly not Joe Public's fault, and it's not really the
broadcasters'. I do feel though that organisations like Ofcom and the
DTG need to have a much closer dialogue with this country's retailers.
Argos, DSG, Amazon etc. It won't stop junk being sold through other
channels, but it will help.

Quite honestly the Freeview platform is showing the first signs of
turning into a useless mess. It's festooned with '+1' and shopping
****e, while at the same time the quality of SD mainstream channels is
being eroded to squeeze in HD channels, that themselves will operate
with less than optimum parameters.

If you possibly can, go with D-Sat for any hope of technical quality.
Medium/long term DTT will only be good for bedroom tellies, and portable
devices.