Analog vs. digital - people look fatter

Andy Burns wrote:

Using the built-in DVB, the channels display correctly.

So why not just use that then instead of the analogue tuner?

Problem is that given a choice between using a freeview EPG or 2/3
button entry, or just presing 1 for BBC1, 5 for five - some users will
prefer the latter. And that tends to be the default setup for TV sets
that support both analog and digital tuners.

The answer is to detune (or not set) the analog tuner channels and train
the user that "only the digital works - switchover is now". Give them a
choice, and only channels 1 to 5 will be watched when you are not around....

--
Adrian C

Peter Lynch wrote:

Comparing the TV, on an analog channel, with my properly set-
up digital TV, showed that indeed the picture had both sides
clipped, while still keeping the 16:9 aspect ratio. The result
is that circles are flatter and wider than they should be, and
the edges have been lost.
Using the built-in DVB, the channels display correctly.

Yes. Analogue doesn't do widescreen so the sides are clipped, and then
maybe your TV will stretch it to fit. That's the way it is. This
problem will only last as long as analogue transmissions, which isn't
long at all now.

--
Dave Farrance

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:47:19 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
On 31/07/2008 13:32, Peter Lynch wrote:

Using the built-in DVB, the channels display correctly.

So why not just use that then instead of the analogue tuner?

Yes, that's what I'm doing. Apart from the anecdote about how
the set responded differently between analog & digital (which
is what most people have picked up on) and as you say, has a
simple solution which I'm using, my main theme was to observe
that poorly configured sets seems quite common (among the 60+s,
at least) and that very few of them either notice, care or think
anything can be done to fix it.
Maybe there's a service industry waiting to be opened up:
"funny telly fixer" :-)

--
.. Pete Lynch I have learned from my mistakes and
.. Marlow ... I am sure I can repeat them exactly
.. www.pete-lynch.com --- Peter Cooke.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:04:03 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:
Peter Lynch wrote:

Comparing the TV, on an analog channel, with my properly set-
up digital TV, showed that indeed the picture had both sides
clipped, while still keeping the 16:9 aspect ratio. The result
is that circles are flatter and wider than they should be, and
the edges have been lost.
Using the built-in DVB, the channels display correctly.

The screen is 16:9.

The only source of 16:9 broadcasts is from DVB.

Analogue sourced pictures will be 4:3, either full screen, or (in most cases)
14:9 letter box within a 4:3 raster.

You will not be able to fill your 16:9 screen with an analogue sourced picture
and not have black bands and/or cropped sides and/or geometric distortion.

The only correct way to view analogue broadcasts is with black side bars, and
also narrow bands top and bottom (in the case of 14:9 letterbox as broadcast)

Yes, it's just a shame that the "auto" mode doesn't have the smarts
to realise this - and mangles what could be a perfectly normal picture.


--
.. Pete Lynch I have learned from my mistakes and
.. Marlow ... I am sure I can repeat them exactly
.. www.pete-lynch.com --- Peter Cooke.

On 31/07/2008 15:16, Peter Lynch wrote:

my main theme was to observe
that poorly configured sets seems quite common (among the 60+s,
at least) and that very few of them either notice, care or think
anything can be done to fix it.

Oh I don't think the advanced years are a requirement ...

Quite a few of my friends have Sky connected via the RF modulator
instead of RGB scart, or watch everything in stretchyvision, or fail to
use the zoom when shows are "postage stamped" with black bars all round
from analogue STBs.

Yes, it's just a shame that the "auto" mode doesn't have the smarts
to realise this - and mangles what could be a perfectly normal picture.


On my Philips set, and others I have seen, the only way to get it 'proper'
is to manually set 4:3 aspect ratio whilst viewing an analogue channel or
4:3 digital signal. It then stays on 4:3 UNTIL is receives a 16:9 flag (it
is part of the transmission). It then correctly switches to 16:9 as it
should, but as soon as the flag is gone - by switching back to analogue for
example - it goes back to your preferred AR.
So two things needed - set your preferred AR for 4:3 broadcasts, and leave
it to switch itself to 16:9 when it should do.

"Peter Lynch" wrote in message
...
I've just been setting up an HD-ready TV for my Mum. In the
past she's noticed that friends' HD-ready TVs have "distorted"
pictures. The one we selected in the shop (to check it wasn't
too dire) showed a normal picture.
However, while I was setting it up, I noticed that the analog
channels showed peoples' faces as being fatter - literally, they
looked like they'd put on a couple of stone. Mum reckoned this
was the same as on her friends' sets.

Comparing the TV, on an analog channel, with my properly set-
up digital TV, showed that indeed the picture had both sides
clipped, while still keeping the 16:9 aspect ratio. The result
is that circles are flatter and wider than they should be, and
the edges have been lost.
Using the built-in DVB, the channels display correctly.

There are no controls for fine-tuning the horizontal size of
the picture.

Have other people noticed this? I'm surprised that the effect
seems to be common (well, among her friends, anyway) and that
the owners are either unaware or dont care about the poor setup.



For ****s Sake! There are causes and solutions to this issue with
the mysterious HD-ready TFT that you're reluctant to mention the
name of. This is just one example of how to find support, FAQ, and
solutions to any problem with your mysterious flatscreen.
I chose to use Philips as an example.
I typed "Philips support" into google and selected to search UK only:
http://www.support.philips.com/suppo...dex_gb_en.html

You will then see you have the choice to search either by model number
or keyword, or scroll down and select TV and it's sub headings.
This will be similar with the mysterious brand of TV you have and
it's home site.

I chose to view plasma and LCD, the subsequent link listed models
so I just chose one at the top and clicked it's link
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/d...LARGE_30_40_SU

You'll see it has sub headings dealing with various issues,
so I clicked on:
Picture/display/screen/video
Then I clicked on:
How can I make the picture exactly fit to my TV screen?

Then that link details what to do with that specific Philips model,
there are further links with more options.
It's ****ing simple innit, type the brand of your TV into goggle
click the ****ing help or support link
Locate the FAQ/help for your model
Read the quick answers, and learn how to set up and install.
And why are you asking the ****ing dickheads of this froup?

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:14:29 +0100, YetAgain wrote:

"Peter Lynch" wrote in message
...
I've just been setting up an HD-ready TV for my Mum. In the
past she's noticed that friends' HD-ready TVs have "distorted"
pictures. The one we selected in the shop (to check it wasn't
too dire) showed a normal picture.
However, while I was setting it up, I noticed that the analog
channels showed peoples' faces as being fatter - literally, they
looked like they'd put on a couple of stone. Mum reckoned this
was the same as on her friends' sets.

Comparing the TV, on an analog channel, with my properly set-
up digital TV, showed that indeed the picture had both sides
clipped, while still keeping the 16:9 aspect ratio. The result
is that circles are flatter and wider than they should be, and
the edges have been lost.
Using the built-in DVB, the channels display correctly.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
- LOOK HERE! -


There are no controls for fine-tuning the horizontal size of
the picture.

Have other people noticed this? I'm surprised that the effect
seems to be common (well, among her friends, anyway) and that
the owners are either unaware or dont care about the poor setup.



For ****s Sake! There are causes and solutions to this issue with
the mysterious HD-ready TFT that you're reluctant to mention the
name of. This is just one example of how to find support, FAQ, and
solutions to any problem with your mysterious flatscreen.

Read the post. I never said I was having a problem - or needed support.
The highlighted line shows that I *did* get the set configured
correctly.
When you read the thread, you will see that apart from the anecdote, I
was reflecting on the number of other poorly configured sets that
people seem willing (or happy) to watch.

--
.. Pete Lynch I have learned from my mistakes and
.. Marlow ... I am sure I can repeat them exactly
.. www.pete-lynch.com --- Peter Cooke.

In article , Dave Farrance
wrote:
Yes. Analogue doesn't do widescreen so the sides are clipped, and then
maybe your TV will stretch it to fit. That's the way it is. This
problem will only last as long as analogue transmissions, which isn't
long at all now.

No, it will last until the digital channels stop showing 4:3 and 14:9
material, which probably means forever.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

This sounds bloody stupid to me. What is the point in getting tv with
supposedly superior performance, and then screwing it up with non linear
scanning?

Surely there ought to be a purists mode for these things. I mean, if there
are gaps I'm sure some enterprising designer could fill it with some nice
curtain effects or something!

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Marky P" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:59:14 +0100, bugbear
wrote:

Peter Lynch wrote:
I've just been setting up an HD-ready TV for my Mum. In the
past she's noticed that friends' HD-ready TVs have "distorted"
pictures. The one we selected in the shop (to check it wasn't
too dire) showed a normal picture.
However, while I was setting it up, I noticed that the analog
channels showed peoples' faces as being fatter - literally, they
looked like they'd put on a couple of stone. Mum reckoned this
was the same as on her friends' sets.

My Toshiba has an option to stretch a 4:3 picture out
in a NON-LINEAR fashion, where the centre isn't stretched
much, but the edges are stretched more.

The notion (I assume) is to have the distortion caused
be stretching restricted to "unimportant" parts of
the image.

I've never used this option...

BugBear

Analogue stations tend to use 14:9 for broadcast which isn't as wide
as 16:9, so most TV's will stretch the picture to fill the frame.

Marky P.