Blu-Ray

"Howard Brazee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:44:48 -0700, "Cubit" wrote:

I've been finding that a percentage of Blu-Ray disks don't play right on
my
player.

I've found alignment problems with disks on computers and TVs way
before Blu-Ray. If they are a little mis-aligned, they can read
some disks, but not others. This was especially a problem when I
burned a DvD or CD one place and read it elsewhere.

It's a bigger problem with Blu-Ray with the Data packed so close together.
One tiny imperfection can screw it up.

FYI, We use Sony XD-CAM re-writable discs at work. They are from what I am
told Blu-Ray. We just slip the disc caddy into the deck, record and play
1080I clips on them, then erase the disks and start all over again. It's
been totally flawless recording nd playback since we got them, and we
haven't destroyed a disc yet. Haven't see one yet either becuase they are
hiding inside the pretty much bullet proof caddys. Hail the broadcasters and
screw the consumers. Maybe Sony's Blu-Ray victory will turn around and bite
the in the ass.



"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
. ..

"Cubit" wrote in message
...

"Norm" wrote in message
...
The data for DVDs and the now abandoned HD DVDS sit up within the disc
towards the lable edge. There is a sizable protecive layer between the
disc surface and the data. This lets the laser focus through scratches
and finger prints to get at the data. Blu -Ray discs have the data
sitting pretty much at the disc surface. There is a very thin protective
layer. This makes the laser have to focus very close to the playing
surface. It's the main reason I don't like them. This may be the cause
of a good amount of your rental playout problems.


That makes sense. I read that originally they were going to sell BD
disks in a cartridge, but they decided to sell bare disks.

The special coating they put on the discs was suppose to protect them and
make it far, far superior to DVD and HD DVD Discs, at least all the
Blu-Ray fanboys said so!!! I always thought that was a load of B.S.
Having Disc's in Cartridges isn't really practical, but the way some
people treat discs makes you wonder sometimes. If you scratch your
Blu-Ray even though the fanboys say you can't, the disc is destroyed, you
can't fix it unlike a CD, DVD,or HD DVD just because of the way Blu-Ray
discs are. You toss the disc. It makes me wonder if this was a part of
the Idea when Blu-Ray was created. Yet another way to get you to buy
another copy of the same movie. They have been doing that with DVD for
years now. Release the Movie with not much extra content, and 6 months to
a year later when sales have slowed down, they release a new version with
lots of extra content, and so people once again buy that new version. For
some they then release a Extended movie version, unrated of course with
lots of content and get you a 3rd time for the same movie. Of course they
already got you replacing your VHS collection to DVD, now they got you
with DVD to Blu-Ray, and to top that off, now they have you with disc's
that can get screwed up no matter what the fanboys say, and instead of
fixing it, you just have to replace it with a new copy. How many copy's
of the SAME MOVIE can they get you for? Think about some you have that
you really like and how many times you've already replaced it!

"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
...

"Cubit" wrote in message
...

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Cubit wrote:

I've been finding that a percentage of Blu-Ray disks don't play right
on my player. I have been going through Netflix Blu-Ray disks. I
didn't keep a log, but while the first ten or so played fine, I have
now gone through about 5 or 6 that either won't play, or have trouble
at some point. I clean the disks. I did the Sony firmware update.

This morning, the movie "Stargate" went fine for about half an hour,
then it stopped. After a long pause it started playing in fast
forward. I could pause the player, but when I hit "play" it would go
back into fast forward. After about 5 minutes of the movie zipped by,
it started playing normally again.

Last night the movie "Perfect Stranger" played perfectly.

Most of the Netflix Blu-Ray disks are not as scratched and
fingerprinted-up as the regular Netflix DVDs.

I'm very unclear at this point if I have a player problem, if rental
disks have damage that cannot be observed by eyeball, or if the
manufacturers of the disks are making a faulty product. My player
still has factory warrantee, so, if it is the player, I need to act
soon.

Are Blu-Ray problems common?

I had heard that the newest disks are sometimes not compatible with a
given player, but the firmware update should have resolved something
like that.





I have a three-month-old SOny BluRay player with all firmware updates.

I, too, am a Netflix subscriber.

I see exactly what you describe in perhaps 1 out of 10 BluRay disks.

It could be a dirty disk, except I can mess with the player and get
through the rough spot. That technique usually didn't work with dirty
conventional DVDs.

Don't try to get Sony to admit to anything, though. They are one giane
WHORE of a company.

10 to 1 seems about right. I guess the disks are getting damaged.

Wait 1 darn Minute!!! What was all that B.S. about Disc Coating and how
it was so much better then DVD and HD DVD format. That you can go over it
with sandpaper and it wouldn't scratch it. Yet here we are, 1 in 10
discs you can't read??? Rental disc shouldn't matter, clean the gunk off
of it and it should be fine. I mean all the Blu-Ran fanboys are saying
these things, so I just don't understand how this can be?? I'd be ****ed
if one in 10 discs I had problems with. That's just not acceptable to me.
I don't know, I guess I have higher standards. I expect far, far better
then that.



There is no question these BD disks scratch. I Windex each one and eyeball
it before playing. Most rental Blu-Ray disks have visible (often small)
scratches. However, one particular disk appeared perfectly smooth but would
not load.

I just don't think Consumers would like dealing with caddies. I remember
doe a short time having them for my CD drive on the PC I think, or maybe it
was my Amiga, I can't remember. Even in a Caddy you can still get dust on
the disc and have problems reading. You'll end up with dust in the drive
after a while and eventually that dust will get thrown up onto the Disc. I
still think people would manage to screw the discs up anyway. Step on it,
throw something heavy on it. Nothing would surprise me. I've have ZERO
problems with DVD's over the years. I was a early Adopter, and now have over
400 movies on DVD's and not a problem reading any of them. They don't get
scratch as they stay in the cases. It's never been a problem for me.


"Norm" wrote in message
...
FYI, We use Sony XD-CAM re-writable discs at work. They are from what I am
told Blu-Ray. We just slip the disc caddy into the deck, record and play
1080I clips on them, then erase the disks and start all over again. It's
been totally flawless recording nd playback since we got them, and we
haven't destroyed a disc yet. Haven't see one yet either becuase they are
hiding inside the pretty much bullet proof caddys. Hail the broadcasters
and screw the consumers. Maybe Sony's Blu-Ray victory will turn around and
bite the in the ass.



"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
. ..

"Cubit" wrote in message
...

"Norm" wrote in message
...
The data for DVDs and the now abandoned HD DVDS sit up within the disc
towards the lable edge. There is a sizable protecive layer between the
disc surface and the data. This lets the laser focus through scratches
and finger prints to get at the data. Blu -Ray discs have the data
sitting pretty much at the disc surface. There is a very thin
protective layer. This makes the laser have to focus very close to the
playing surface. It's the main reason I don't like them. This may be
the cause of a good amount of your rental playout problems.


That makes sense. I read that originally they were going to sell BD
disks in a cartridge, but they decided to sell bare disks.

The special coating they put on the discs was suppose to protect them and
make it far, far superior to DVD and HD DVD Discs, at least all the
Blu-Ray fanboys said so!!! I always thought that was a load of B.S.
Having Disc's in Cartridges isn't really practical, but the way some
people treat discs makes you wonder sometimes. If you scratch your
Blu-Ray even though the fanboys say you can't, the disc is destroyed, you
can't fix it unlike a CD, DVD,or HD DVD just because of the way Blu-Ray
discs are. You toss the disc. It makes me wonder if this was a part of
the Idea when Blu-Ray was created. Yet another way to get you to buy
another copy of the same movie. They have been doing that with DVD for
years now. Release the Movie with not much extra content, and 6 months
to a year later when sales have slowed down, they release a new version
with lots of extra content, and so people once again buy that new
version. For some they then release a Extended movie version, unrated of
course with lots of content and get you a 3rd time for the same movie.
Of course they already got you replacing your VHS collection to DVD, now
they got you with DVD to Blu-Ray, and to top that off, now they have you
with disc's that can get screwed up no matter what the fanboys say, and
instead of fixing it, you just have to replace it with a new copy. How
many copy's of the SAME MOVIE can they get you for? Think about some you
have that you really like and how many times you've already replaced it!

"Cubit" wrote in message
. ..

"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
...

"Cubit" wrote in message
...

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Cubit wrote:

I've been finding that a percentage of Blu-Ray disks don't play right
on my player. I have been going through Netflix Blu-Ray disks. I
didn't keep a log, but while the first ten or so played fine, I have
now gone through about 5 or 6 that either won't play, or have trouble
at some point. I clean the disks. I did the Sony firmware update.

This morning, the movie "Stargate" went fine for about half an hour,
then it stopped. After a long pause it started playing in fast
forward. I could pause the player, but when I hit "play" it would go
back into fast forward. After about 5 minutes of the movie zipped by,
it started playing normally again.

Last night the movie "Perfect Stranger" played perfectly.

Most of the Netflix Blu-Ray disks are not as scratched and
fingerprinted-up as the regular Netflix DVDs.

I'm very unclear at this point if I have a player problem, if rental
disks have damage that cannot be observed by eyeball, or if the
manufacturers of the disks are making a faulty product. My player
still has factory warrantee, so, if it is the player, I need to act
soon.

Are Blu-Ray problems common?

I had heard that the newest disks are sometimes not compatible with a
given player, but the firmware update should have resolved something
like that.





I have a three-month-old SOny BluRay player with all firmware updates.

I, too, am a Netflix subscriber.

I see exactly what you describe in perhaps 1 out of 10 BluRay disks.

It could be a dirty disk, except I can mess with the player and get
through the rough spot. That technique usually didn't work with dirty
conventional DVDs.

Don't try to get Sony to admit to anything, though. They are one giane
WHORE of a company.

10 to 1 seems about right. I guess the disks are getting damaged.

Wait 1 darn Minute!!! What was all that B.S. about Disc Coating and how
it was so much better then DVD and HD DVD format. That you can go over
it with sandpaper and it wouldn't scratch it. Yet here we are, 1 in 10
discs you can't read??? Rental disc shouldn't matter, clean the gunk off
of it and it should be fine. I mean all the Blu-Ran fanboys are saying
these things, so I just don't understand how this can be?? I'd be
****ed if one in 10 discs I had problems with. That's just not
acceptable to me. I don't know, I guess I have higher standards. I
expect far, far better then that.



There is no question these BD disks scratch. I Windex each one and
eyeball it before playing. Most rental Blu-Ray disks have visible (often
small) scratches. However, one particular disk appeared perfectly smooth
but would not load.

There has been problems with the coating when it's applied to the Discs.
Maybe in a couple years they will have it more perfected. I'd be P.O.ed if
1 in 10 discs I had problems reading! I have a few (20 or so)HD DVD movies
and they all play just fine. I'll keep buying DVD's, I'm really in no rush
to go out and get a Blu-Ray player. Really the only one worth still getting
at this time is the PS3, which is really pretty LAME after all this time.
Maybe in a year or so I'll change my mind.

I've never had any problms with DVD's either. I've rented one or two that
looked like people threw a party on them They played just fine. Of course I
do get out the dish washing detergent and give them a bath before I try to
play them. Gets all the food and finger prints off of them. I am betting
HD-DVDs were about as robust. I would think thats it's more a manufacturing
issue (cheaper) to market a naked BR disc, rather than put them inside a
caddie. The discs we buy are not cheap. They come already in the cartridge.
You can't get them out of there. Its a great system. We think nothing of
leaving them laying around anywhere. They are quite bullet proof. You can't
even see the disk surface. The decks open up a sliding Star Treck type door
underneeth when you load the disc.

"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
. ..
I just don't think Consumers would like dealing with caddies. I remember
doe a short time having them for my CD drive on the PC I think, or maybe it
was my Amiga, I can't remember. Even in a Caddy you can still get dust on
the disc and have problems reading. You'll end up with dust in the drive
after a while and eventually that dust will get thrown up onto the Disc. I
still think people would manage to screw the discs up anyway. Step on it,
throw something heavy on it. Nothing would surprise me. I've have ZERO
problems with DVD's over the years. I was a early Adopter, and now have
over 400 movies on DVD's and not a problem reading any of them. They don't
get scratch as they stay in the cases. It's never been a problem for me.


"Norm" wrote in message
...
FYI, We use Sony XD-CAM re-writable discs at work. They are from what I
am told Blu-Ray. We just slip the disc caddy into the deck, record and
play 1080I clips on them, then erase the disks and start all over again.
It's been totally flawless recording nd playback since we got them, and
we haven't destroyed a disc yet. Haven't see one yet either becuase they
are hiding inside the pretty much bullet proof caddys. Hail the
broadcasters and screw the consumers. Maybe Sony's Blu-Ray victory will
turn around and bite the in the ass.



"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
. ..

"Cubit" wrote in message
...

"Norm" wrote in message
...
The data for DVDs and the now abandoned HD DVDS sit up within the
disc towards the lable edge. There is a sizable protecive layer
between the disc surface and the data. This lets the laser focus
through scratches and finger prints to get at the data. Blu -Ray discs
have the data sitting pretty much at the disc surface. There is a very
thin protective layer. This makes the laser have to focus very close
to the playing surface. It's the main reason I don't like them. This
may be the cause of a good amount of your rental playout problems.


That makes sense. I read that originally they were going to sell BD
disks in a cartridge, but they decided to sell bare disks.

The special coating they put on the discs was suppose to protect them
and make it far, far superior to DVD and HD DVD Discs, at least all the
Blu-Ray fanboys said so!!! I always thought that was a load of B.S.
Having Disc's in Cartridges isn't really practical, but the way some
people treat discs makes you wonder sometimes. If you scratch your
Blu-Ray even though the fanboys say you can't, the disc is destroyed,
you can't fix it unlike a CD, DVD,or HD DVD just because of the way
Blu-Ray discs are. You toss the disc. It makes me wonder if this was a
part of the Idea when Blu-Ray was created. Yet another way to get you to
buy another copy of the same movie. They have been doing that with DVD
for years now. Release the Movie with not much extra content, and 6
months to a year later when sales have slowed down, they release a new
version with lots of extra content, and so people once again buy that
new version. For some they then release a Extended movie version,
unrated of course with lots of content and get you a 3rd time for the
same movie. Of course they already got you replacing your VHS collection
to DVD, now they got you with DVD to Blu-Ray, and to top that off, now
they have you with disc's that can get screwed up no matter what the
fanboys say, and instead of fixing it, you just have to replace it with
a new copy. How many copy's of the SAME MOVIE can they get you for?
Think about some you have that you really like and how many times you've
already replaced it!

I would think after time that Dust get's sucked into the drive over time,
and at some point in the future and when you place that disc that's in the
caddy in the drive and the door of the caddy is open that dust at that point
gets on the disc. Generally though I would think that would take a lot of
time, possible or not, I don't know for sure. I think it would have been a
better solution then the Disc Coating. The way some people treat their
discs at times is just amazing.


"Norm" wrote in message
news
I've never had any problms with DVD's either. I've rented one or two that
looked like people threw a party on them They played just fine. Of course
I do get out the dish washing detergent and give them a bath before I try
to play them. Gets all the food and finger prints off of them. I am
betting HD-DVDs were about as robust. I would think thats it's more a
manufacturing issue (cheaper) to market a naked BR disc, rather than put
them inside a caddie. The discs we buy are not cheap. They come already in
the cartridge. You can't get them out of there. Its a great system. We
think nothing of leaving them laying around anywhere. They are quite
bullet proof. You can't even see the disk surface. The decks open up a
sliding Star Treck type door underneeth when you load the disc.

"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
. ..
I just don't think Consumers would like dealing with caddies. I remember
doe a short time having them for my CD drive on the PC I think, or maybe
it was my Amiga, I can't remember. Even in a Caddy you can still get dust
on the disc and have problems reading. You'll end up with dust in the
drive after a while and eventually that dust will get thrown up onto the
Disc. I still think people would manage to screw the discs up anyway.
Step on it, throw something heavy on it. Nothing would surprise me. I've
have ZERO problems with DVD's over the years. I was a early Adopter, and
now have over 400 movies on DVD's and not a problem reading any of them.
They don't get scratch as they stay in the cases. It's never been a
problem for me.


"Norm" wrote in message
...
FYI, We use Sony XD-CAM re-writable discs at work. They are from what I
am told Blu-Ray. We just slip the disc caddy into the deck, record and
play 1080I clips on them, then erase the disks and start all over again.
It's been totally flawless recording nd playback since we got them, and
we haven't destroyed a disc yet. Haven't see one yet either becuase they
are hiding inside the pretty much bullet proof caddys. Hail the
broadcasters and screw the consumers. Maybe Sony's Blu-Ray victory will
turn around and bite the in the ass.



"JBDragon" JBDragon at someplace dot com wrote in message
. ..

"Cubit" wrote in message
...

"Norm" wrote in message
...
The data for DVDs and the now abandoned HD DVDS sit up within the
disc towards the lable edge. There is a sizable protecive layer
between the disc surface and the data. This lets the laser focus
through scratches and finger prints to get at the data. Blu -Ray
discs have the data sitting pretty much at the disc surface. There is
a very thin protective layer. This makes the laser have to focus very
close to the playing surface. It's the main reason I don't like them.
This may be the cause of a good amount of your rental playout
problems.


That makes sense. I read that originally they were going to sell BD
disks in a cartridge, but they decided to sell bare disks.

The special coating they put on the discs was suppose to protect them
and make it far, far superior to DVD and HD DVD Discs, at least all the
Blu-Ray fanboys said so!!! I always thought that was a load of B.S.
Having Disc's in Cartridges isn't really practical, but the way some
people treat discs makes you wonder sometimes. If you scratch your
Blu-Ray even though the fanboys say you can't, the disc is destroyed,
you can't fix it unlike a CD, DVD,or HD DVD just because of the way
Blu-Ray discs are. You toss the disc. It makes me wonder if this was a
part of the Idea when Blu-Ray was created. Yet another way to get you
to buy another copy of the same movie. They have been doing that with
DVD for years now. Release the Movie with not much extra content, and
6 months to a year later when sales have slowed down, they release a
new version with lots of extra content, and so people once again buy
that new version. For some they then release a Extended movie version,
unrated of course with lots of content and get you a 3rd time for the
same movie. Of course they already got you replacing your VHS
collection to DVD, now they got you with DVD to Blu-Ray, and to top
that off, now they have you with disc's that can get screwed up no
matter what the fanboys say, and instead of fixing it, you just have to
replace it with a new copy. How many copy's of the SAME MOVIE can
they get you for? Think about some you have that you really like and
how many times you've already replaced it!