Dish network is stretching standard def

I can see the point that the interior may degrade because of more use
than the edges, but leaving a static image on a screen while in use
burns in at an incredibly faster rate than the dimming issue of the
middle 4x3 with black bars.

I have been over peoples house that had older plasmas and LCDs and had
the gray bars on for a few hours. Even when the TV was only a few
weeks old we could see bars on the side after watching something for a
few hours. If they watched a 16x9 show for an hour or so it would
clear it up. Still not sure about how much damage it caused for the
long haul, but it is clear gray bars are bad and are much worse.

Gray bar effects are notice after several hours while the "dimming"
issue of the center area takes years of use to notice depending on
usage. On my Panasonic Plasma I figured out that the half life was
almost 18 years based on only 30,000 hours to half life instead of the
spec of 60,000 that they say which would mean 36 years for me. Give
that I watch mostly HD and in a year most everything I watch will be
in HD anyway, the dimming effect is a non-issue.

Also, most of the consesus out there seems to be that the burn-in on
plasmas has been addressed pretty well by the quality units, but the
pre-2002 units stunk. Basically, if it gets really hot, you have a
POS that is going to burn in.



On Jun 3, 10:23Â*am, "www.locoworks.com" wrote:
On Jun 3, 7:19�am, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:





On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 07:24:22 -0400, "Tantalust"

wrote:
"Jordan" wrote
Side Question - I notice that the Dish reciever had "Normal" and "Grey
Bars" mode. �I believe that on Plasma and LCD TVs you are not supposed to
have a static image on the screen for long periods of time. �Why would
there be a grey bar mode when that is supposed to be bad for the TV, not
to mention crappy to look at?

I forget what those options are in my 622 menus, but FWIW, �any gray bars
are much less prone to cause burn-in than black bars (if you're given the
option to choose between the two....)

LCDs, DLP and most LCOS/SXRD are usually quite immune to burn-in, as a rule.

Hmm, I'm wondering how black bars can cause "burn-in" since black
seems to be the lack of anything on the screen.

That would be because that black area (in a plasma display) does not
deteriorate over time, therefore when a screen-fillling image occurs,
the areas that were black would be brighter than the center. Â*Just
another reason to avoid plasma.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:10:41 -0400 Neil - Salem, MA USA wrote:
| "Jordan" wrote in message
| . ..
|
|[snip]...
|
| ...I believe that on Plasma and LCD TVs you are not supposed to have a
| static image on the screen for long periods of time. Why would there be a
| grey bar mode when that is supposed to be bad for the TV, not to mention
| crappy to look at?
|
| Plasma TVs and front and rear projection CRT TVs can experience "burn-in".
| (LCD, DLP and LCoS TVs don't have this problem.)
|
| If you watch a lot of 4:3 images on a 16:9 plasma or CRT projection TV, the
| 4:3 center portion of the screen will slowly become dimmer while the bars on
| the right and left will remain brighter. (This is due to aging of the used
| pixels - they experience fatigue. The more the center pixels are used, the
| poorer they perform.) Then, after a while, any time you watch a full 16:9
| image, the burn-in will be all too obvious. You will see a bar effect on
| the right side and left side of whatever you are watching.
|
| If you watch a lot of 4:3 content on your 16:9 plasma or CRT TV, it's better
| to have grey bars than black bars on the sides of the screen so that the
| pixels there will age at about the same rate as the pixels in the center of
| the screen.

WTOV-DT puts dark gray bars on their 4:3 newscast. But they do it badly.
There is a narrow black bar in between the gray and picture on each side.
It's only a few pixels wide. It would probably end up being more annoying
for those with displays vulnerable to burn-in.

Broadcasters should transmit programs using a format made that matches the
program. That will let the viewer and/or his/her display decide how best
to display it (anamorphic-like stretch, pillarbox with black, or pillarbox
with gray).

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:43 -0500 Jer wrote:

| OTOH, some other channels, like History, stretch whatever they send, and
| it sucks. I like the programs, but the image sucks.
|
| It's not Dish, they send whatever they get.

If we can confirm that History-HD looks like that even on DirecTV or Comcast
or Verizon or others, then I'd believe it 100%. Otherwise I'm going to have
to just believe it 99.99%.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:43 -0500 Jer wrote:

| OTOH, some other channels, like History, stretch whatever they send, and
| it sucks. I like the programs, but the image sucks.
|
| It's not Dish, they send whatever they get.

If we can confirm that History-HD looks like that even on DirecTV or Comcast
or Verizon or others, then I'd believe it 100%. Otherwise I'm going to have
to just believe it 99.99%.



I have DirectTV at my southern nest and stretch-o-vision sucks there too.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

On Jun 4, 9:39�am, Jer wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:43 -0500 Jer wrote:

| OTOH, some other channels, like History, stretch whatever they send, and
| it sucks. �I like the programs, but the image sucks.
|
| It's not Dish, they send whatever they get.

If we can confirm that History-HD looks like that even on DirecTV or Comcast
or Verizon or others, then I'd believe it 100%. �Otherwise I'm going to have
to just believe it 99.99%.

I have DirectTV at my southern nest and stretch-o-vision sucks there too.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

I called DirecTv to complain about stretch-o-vision on History HD and
they said that they only pass along what they are delivered. Sounded
like BS to me.

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) www.locoworks.com wrote:
| On Jun 4, 9:39?am, Jer wrote:
| wrote:
| On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:43 -0500 Jer wrote:
|
| | OTOH, some other channels, like History, stretch whatever they send, and
| | it sucks. ?I like the programs, but the image sucks.
| |
| | It's not Dish, they send whatever they get.
|
| If we can confirm that History-HD looks like that even on DirecTV or Comcast
| or Verizon or others, then I'd believe it 100%. ?Otherwise I'm going to have
| to just believe it 99.99%.
|
| I have DirectTV at my southern nest and stretch-o-vision sucks there too.
|
| --
| jer
| email reply - I am not a 'ten'
|
| I called DirecTv to complain about stretch-o-vision on History HD and
| they said that they only pass along what they are delivered. Sounded
| like BS to me.

It's quite likely true. They may recompress. But if the program provider
sends them a signal that is always in one of the 16:9 HD formats, it is very
unlikely that DirecTV or DishNet or Comcast or Verizon or anyone else is going
to detect that _some_ programs are coming across pillarboxed in that 16:9
format mode and modify it to be stretched. If there are any other programs
in real genuine HD (and I would think at least some would be for a channel
named "History HD") then it almost certain to be the History HD control room
where the stretching is happening. The "decision" to stretch would have to
be done in the device that is converting from SD to HD ahead of their master
control switcher (probably automated).

Write your letter of complaint to:

A & E Television Network
235 E 45TH ST
New York, NY 10017-3305

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) www.locoworks.com wrote:
| On Jun 4, 9:39?am, Jer wrote:
| wrote:
| On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:43 -0500 Jer wrote:
|
| | OTOH, some other channels, like History, stretch whatever they send, and
| | it sucks. ?I like the programs, but the image sucks.
| |
| | It's not Dish, they send whatever they get.
|
| If we can confirm that History-HD looks like that even on DirecTV or Comcast
| or Verizon or others, then I'd believe it 100%. ?Otherwise I'm going to have
| to just believe it 99.99%.
|
| I have DirectTV at my southern nest and stretch-o-vision sucks there too.
|
| --
| jer
| email reply - I am not a 'ten'
|
| I called DirecTv to complain about stretch-o-vision on History HD and
| they said that they only pass along what they are delivered. Sounded
| like BS to me.

It's quite likely true. They may recompress. But if the program provider
sends them a signal that is always in one of the 16:9 HD formats, it is very
unlikely that DirecTV or DishNet or Comcast or Verizon or anyone else is going
to detect that _some_ programs are coming across pillarboxed in that 16:9
format mode and modify it to be stretched. If there are any other programs
in real genuine HD (and I would think at least some would be for a channel
named "History HD") then it almost certain to be the History HD control room
where the stretching is happening. The "decision" to stretch would have to
be done in the device that is converting from SD to HD ahead of their master
control switcher (probably automated).

Write your letter of complaint to:

A & E Television Network
235 E 45TH ST
New York, NY 10017-3305



I complained to DishTV - they are my provider, I am their customer.
When they said it comes to them like that, I said "I don't care who you
get it from, it's on the wire I contract from my provider, the last time
I looked that was you, so you get the complaint. OTOH, if you provide
me with valid contact details for your upstream source, I'll gladly
include them in my future complaints. But, just so I'm clear, you're my
contract provider and you'll always be first on my list. You're welcome
to forward this to whomever you think is relevant, but trying to pass
the buck upstream with no further effort on your part won't work with me."

One can also participate in one or more forums at http://www.history.com

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:50:27 -0500 Jer wrote:
| wrote:
| On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) www.locoworks.com wrote:
| | On Jun 4, 9:39?am, Jer wrote:
| | wrote:
| | On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:01:43 -0500 Jer wrote:
| |
| | | OTOH, some other channels, like History, stretch whatever they send, and
| | | it sucks. ?I like the programs, but the image sucks.
| | |
| | | It's not Dish, they send whatever they get.
| |
| | If we can confirm that History-HD looks like that even on DirecTV or Comcast
| | or Verizon or others, then I'd believe it 100%. ?Otherwise I'm going to have
| | to just believe it 99.99%.
| |
| | I have DirectTV at my southern nest and stretch-o-vision sucks there too.
| |
| | --
| | jer
| | email reply - I am not a 'ten'
| |
| | I called DirecTv to complain about stretch-o-vision on History HD and
| | they said that they only pass along what they are delivered. Sounded
| | like BS to me.
|
| It's quite likely true. They may recompress. But if the program provider
| sends them a signal that is always in one of the 16:9 HD formats, it is very
| unlikely that DirecTV or DishNet or Comcast or Verizon or anyone else is going
| to detect that _some_ programs are coming across pillarboxed in that 16:9
| format mode and modify it to be stretched. If there are any other programs
| in real genuine HD (and I would think at least some would be for a channel
| named "History HD") then it almost certain to be the History HD control room
| where the stretching is happening. The "decision" to stretch would have to
| be done in the device that is converting from SD to HD ahead of their master
| control switcher (probably automated).
|
| Write your letter of complaint to:
|
| A & E Television Network
| 235 E 45TH ST
| New York, NY 10017-3305
|
|
|
| I complained to DishTV - they are my provider, I am their customer.
| When they said it comes to them like that, I said "I don't care who you
| get it from, it's on the wire I contract from my provider, the last time
| I looked that was you, so you get the complaint. OTOH, if you provide
| me with valid contact details for your upstream source, I'll gladly
| include them in my future complaints. But, just so I'm clear, you're my
| contract provider and you'll always be first on my list. You're welcome
| to forward this to whomever you think is relevant, but trying to pass
| the buck upstream with no further effort on your part won't work with me."

I agree you should complain to the provider as well. This is because your
business relationship is with your provider.

But, consider if this were an OTA TV station, and that TV station did this.
Would you think your complaint should be focused on your provider?

I presume History channel (I don't get it because I'm too cheap) includes
commercials. Take note of which companies sponsor the programs, especially
the stretched programs. Include letters to those sponsors as well.

It's not hard to find out who most of the TV program sources are. When it
is a problem with how they transmit the signals, there is no point in not
letting them know directly. Depending on a satellite or cable provider to
do something about it is only going to dilute your complaint at best.

Are you going to tell your provider that you will switch to another provider
in such a case? You know it will be the same with all of them.

You can also complaint to your TV manufacturer for failing to provide a
feature that "corrects picture problems created by incompetent programmers
like History HD".


| One can also participate in one or more forums at http://www.history.com

That, too. But the people that matter might not be reading it.

If AVSFORUM wasn't using such an awful web program (which, unfortunately,
most web forums use this or other programs like it), I'd suggest asking them
to add forums for each TV program there.

If I get around to it, I'll call the Dish sales department and ask them if
they have fixed History HD, yet.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

Here are some AVS "unsquash-o-vision" etc History HD threads I dug up:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:46:23 -0400 Tantalust wrote:

| Here are some AVS "unsquash-o-vision" etc History HD threads I dug up:
|
| http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history
| http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history
| http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history
| http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=history

Are any of them worth reading?

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |