Surge / Ground / Lightning

In alt.engineering.electrical Michael A. Terrell wrote:
|
| Tony Hwang wrote:
|
| Hmmm,
| Prpbably wannabee ham came from CB crowd when Morse code requirement was
| dropped.
|
|
| Who knows? Wherever he came from, I don't see him on this computer.
| All I know is that I finally kill filed him on this computer after I got
| tired of reading his 'twilight zone' electrical & electronics babble. I
| am a former radio & TV broadcast engineer, and if I followed his or

Google for Michael A. Terrell's past posts and you will see he is more of
a person with social problems that prefers to find ways to attack people
at a personal level, rather that make his "disputes" with the specific
points being presented. I don't cave in to such attacks and he apparently
eventually realized that and figured that if he didn't read my posts at all,
he would not be tempted to make more personal attacks.

What he can't know is what would happen if he followed _any_ advice given on
the net. Since he didn't, there was no such test. He is merely speculating.
And he didn't seem to fully grasp all that was said, since his responses were
sometimes in reference to things not actually said. Whether he misread what
was said in those instances, or lacked the understanding needed, I do not
know.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical Timothy Daniels wrote:

| Would you please sum up what you believe to be prudent
| protection (for electronic equipment) from nearby lightning strikes?
| I'm thinking of both in single-family homes and in condo/apartment
| buildings. What would you do to protect from in-house (or in-building)
| surges, such as elevator motors suddenly shorting out, or welding
| equipment in use?

How much money are you willing to spend?

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical VWWall wrote:

| Actually, a real current will flow until the line's capacitance is
| charged to the source voltage. When the source is removed, the energy
| involved will remain until it is leaked off through the inter-wire
| resistance. If the source is AC, no net energy will "flow", except that
| lost in the inter-wire resistance. If the line length is long enough at
| the frequency involved, reflections from the end of an incorrectly
| terminated transmission line will return to dissipate energy in the
| source resistance.

That reflection even happens with DC. When the switch closes, you have a
rising wavefront leading the chargeup of the line. Unless the far end has
a perfectly matched load, that wavefront will reflect back. This is in
fact how a lot of very early radio transmissions were tuned, with the
"switch" being a noisy spark gap, and the "line" being a long wire antenna
cut to a specific length. You don't even need to have 2 conductors.


| --
| Virg Wall, P.E.
| K6EVE

They seem to not believe me because I am a "mere amateur". You might suffer
the same fate from some of them (I won't name names; it's not hard to figure
out who they are).

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical Timothy Daniels wrote:
| "Tony Hwang" wrote:
| You seem to be confused between current flow(energy) and voltage(poential)
| Nothing flows in an open circuit. If not we
| have to rewrite Ohm's law. Show your credential to make a
| stamement like that.
|
|
| You're forgetting RF frequencies - which can flow (back
| and forth) quite readily in an open circuit such as a transmitter
| tower, whip antenna, or transmission line, or building power
| wiring, steel frame, etc.

I think they intentionally ignored it. Well, maybe Mr. Terrell actually
forgot.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical Tantalust wrote:
| wrote in message
| ...
| In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Tantalust wrote:
| | wrote in message
| | ...
| | In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Tantalust wrote:
| | |
| | | wrote
| | |
| | |Maybe he taken a hiatus after the right propper whopping he got here
| | |last week. I thought it was hillarious after he derided the makers
| | |of plug-in surge protectors and then gave us his list of "real
| | |companies", like Intermatic, GE, Leviton, etc., that were experts at
| | |it. Only problem was, all of the companies on his list sell
| plug-in
| | |ones too.
| | |
| | | Huh, so according to all of w_'s sermons, Bud must be working
| overtime
| | as a
| | | salesman for all of those companies too? Busy guy!
| |
| | Both do not appear to be wrong to me. They appear more to be arguing
| | about
| | entirely different issues. But I can't be entirely sure because their
| | rants
| | are hard to read and I skip a lot of it, including any post where the
| | first
| | screenful is all quoted text. And my googlegroups filter is killing
| off
| | the
| | posts from w_tom that don't have any threading where I have posted.
| |
| | Is googlegroups filtering possible using Outlook Express?
|
| Not that I know of. But my reader is configured to filter out
| Googlegroups
| due to Google's lack of action to deal with the massive spam floods they
| let
| reach Usenet. Not only is there many times as much spam from Googlegroups
| as legitimate posts in the groups I read, but in many, the level of normal
| posts has fallen, suggesting that this issue is causing some to abandon
| Usenet
| because of this.
|
| Thanks for the info.

I should clarify that where I said "many times as much spam from Googlegroups
as legitimate posts in the groups I read" I was referring to legitimate posts
ALSO FROM Googlegroups (the ones I would lose by blocking). In some cases the
spam truly was in excess of ALL legitimate posts. As it turns out, my newsreader
will still show the killed posts with a "K" in the threading displays. So if
someone followed them, or they followed one of mine, I can at least pick it.
But the normal tabbing through new posts still skips them.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical VWWall wrote:

| Actually, a real current will flow until the line's capacitance is
| charged to the source voltage. When the source is removed, the energy
| involved will remain until it is leaked off through the inter-wire
| resistance. If the source is AC, no net energy will "flow", except that
| lost in the inter-wire resistance. If the line length is long enough at
| the frequency involved, reflections from the end of an incorrectly
| terminated transmission line will return to dissipate energy in the
| source resistance.

That reflection even happens with DC. When the switch closes, you have a
rising wavefront leading the chargeup of the line. Unless the far end has
a perfectly matched load, that wavefront will reflect back. This is in
fact how a lot of very early radio transmissions were tuned, with the
"switch" being a noisy spark gap, and the "line" being a long wire antenna
cut to a specific length. You don't even need to have 2 conductors.

That's because a switch closure is not really DC. Resolve a step
function into a Fourier series, and it has an infinite number of AC
components. In the case of a single wire, you do need to consider EM
theory.

--
Virg Wall, P.E.
K6EVE
P1-11-49835
T2-11-49835

wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical Timothy Daniels wrote:

| Would you please sum up what you believe to be prudent
| protection (for electronic equipment) from nearby lightning strikes?
| I'm thinking of both in single-family homes and in condo/apartment
| buildings. What would you do to protect from in-house (or in-building)
| surges, such as elevator motors suddenly shorting out, or welding
| equipment in use?

How much money are you willing to spend?


The only thing I can think of that comes close is to have a heavy
motor/generator set with a HUGE flywheel sitting in the basement.

wrote in message
...
In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Franc Zabkar wrote:


The MOVs will act like conductors when they are clamping. The surge will
take both paths ... the path through the MOVs, and the path going past the
MOVs. In general, about 50% will go each way. That can vary at higher
frequencies.

Why would you assume that 50% will go each way when you don't know the
impedance of each direction? When conducting, or at failure, the MOV has a
very low impedance.

Leonard

wrote:
In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Tony Hwang wrote:
| Michael A. Terrell wrote:
| Tony Hwang wrote:
|
|Hi,
|Is he a ham? What is his call sign?
|Mine is VE6CGX.
|
|
|
| It's in his sig file: KA9WGN
|
|
| Hmmm,
| That is sign format of novice class.

Which means my first ticket was novice. I upgraded a month after that.

Don't forget to renew it before June 16. From FCC:

KA9WGN Radio Service HA - Amateur
Status Active Auth Type Regular
Dates
Grant 06/16/1998 Expiration 06/16/2008
Effective 11/13/2003

snip personal info

--
Virg Wall

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Tony Hwang wrote:

Hmmm,
Prpbably wannabee ham came from CB crowd when Morse code requirement was
dropped.



Who knows? Wherever he came from, I don't see him on this computer.
All I know is that I finally kill filed him on this computer after I got
tired of reading his 'twilight zone' electrical & electronics babble. I
am a former radio & TV broadcast engineer, and if I followed his or
_wacko_tom's warped ideas, I would have had millions of dollars worth of
damage. I had a studio building and STL tower in Leesburg Florida hit
by a direct strike. It blew chunks of concrete from the building where
the rebar and threaded rods ran vertical. It WAS an excellent example
of _wacko_tom's UFER ground, before the steel vaporized inside damp
concrete. 95% of the damage was caused by the EMP. I lost the 11 GHz
Cars band STL, the 1A2 type phone system, all the computer terminals,
and had some minor problems with other electronics. It turned out that
the dead terminals all had high ESR electrolytics, and that they were
working because they were all on UPS before the strike took out all the
electricity. The power 1A2 supply needed some of the weird WE fuses,
one KTU card and was back in service. The STL was mounted on the tower
in a steel NEMA box, and lost the LO module. It was 20 years old, and
at least 10 years obsolete, so it needed that module updated, anyway.

I started with the phones, then arranged a twice a day courier form
the studio to the transmitter site with U-matic tapes. We rented a STL
transmitter and shipped the damaged system to the OEM for repair &
upgrading. The terminals were down for a day, while I waited for the
new electrolytics. Or viewers didn't even know we had been hit. Then I
moved the microwave racks to a closet in the corner of the building, and
used 4" EMT between the rack and the tower. That was 20 years ago. They
have had strikes since then, but no problems.


Hi,
Qucik check on Buckmaster shows he was born in '55. Technician
plus(novice) holder. For his age, does not seem to have corresponding
wisdom.