DTV Reception

Alan F wrote:
Jer wrote:
Dianne K wrote:
Thanks Chip. I'm sorry, I thought that I mentioned it was only the
antenna that came on the tv. I tried moving the antenna and it didn't
make any difference on the stations that the scan picked up. I live in
an apartment building and the landlord doesn't want an antenna on the
roof.

I had cable for years but didn't watch their stations enough to warrant
the cost, so I got rid of it. I have 3 tv's with rabbit ears....I
haven't tried the converter box on the other 2 because they're more
difficult to access.


I don't recall the FCC offering your landlord a choice about you
having a rooftop antenna. I do recall the FCC removing your
landlord's choice about whether you have a rooftop antenna.

I lost that bookmark a while back - anybody got a link to that?

The problem is the word "landlord". The FCC has rules that apply to
condos and houses that restrict over zealous Homeowners associations
from saying no antennas on property you own, but for rental apartments,
the landlord has more power. You can't put an antenna on property or a
roof you don't own w/o permission. But she is 20 miles from the
broadcast towers. A good indoor antenna, although it may have to go in
the window, may do the job.

Alan F


You're right, here it is...

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/New.../nrcb8023.html

Pay particular attention to the phrasing relevant to 'exclusive use'. I
knew there was something about renters in apartments. As I understand
this, the roof is off limits, but the balcony, terrace, or patio is an
option. Of course, if the renter is 'on the wrong side of the building'
I suppose they're just SOL. And yes, this document was originally
drafted for dish antennae, but OTA VHF/UHF antennae would be included
within the size restrictions noted.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Jer wrote:
Cinder Lane wrote:
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008, 9:59pm (EDT-3) said:

You may also need to set your stations manually. You will need to use
the dash button, followed by a1 to select the main subchannel (the
one you're familiar with from analog).

For example, to get Ch. 2 KDKA, your CBS affiliate, try entering 25-1.

I was under the impression that the VIRTUAL channel had to be selected.
KDKA-DT, although on REAL channel 25, would be found by searching for
2-1, not 25-1. That means that the tuner would have to examine every
station's PSIP until it found it.

I think that's true. The re-mapping of real to virtual can't happen
until a lock condition is obtained and the PSIP is decoded. To tune a
digital signal directly without PSIP, one would tune to the real
channel, no?


Question for Alan F: If a station is missing its PSIP information, does
the tuner then assign the REAL channel number as the main part of the
virtual channel number?

As far as I have seen, yes. Stations have computer equipment that
provides the PSIP data that is added to the broadcast signal. The PSIP
data is not just the mapped channel #, but the station call sign, and
program listings. If the PSIP data is messed up, you may see your tuner
change to displaying the physical channel #. I recall a post from a
local station engineer on avsforum explaining that the PSIP generator
for his station crashed and that is why for several hours anyone tuning
to the station would get the physical channel # displayed and no program
listings.

If will get a little simpler next year when some 600 stations change
their digital broadcast channel to their current analog channel so their
physical channel will be the same as their assigned channel # (which is
the analog channel # for existing stations). The other 1100+ full power
stations will still have a physical channel which is different than
their current analog channel, so they will keep the mapping.

Alan F

"Jer" wrote in message
news:[email protected] ica...
Cinder Lane wrote:
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008, 9:59pm (EDT-3) said:

You may also need to set your stations manually. You will need to use
the dash button, followed by a1 to select the main subchannel (the one
you're familiar with from analog).

For example, to get Ch. 2 KDKA, your CBS affiliate, try entering 25-1.

I was under the impression that the VIRTUAL channel had to be selected.
KDKA-DT, although on REAL channel 25, would be found by searching for
2-1, not 25-1. That means that the tuner would have to examine every
station's PSIP until it found it.

I think that's true. The re-mapping of real to virtual can't happen until
a lock condition is obtained and the PSIP is decoded. To tune a digital
signal directly without PSIP, one would tune to the real channel, no?

Yes. If the station is not in the scan memory you need to punch in the real
RF channel number, for instance 28 instead of 4.1. If it locks on, and your
TV shows the received channel number you will see it change from 28 or 28.1
to 4.1. On some TVs you need to also do this if you use an antenna rotator.
I have also seen cases where the TV gets enough of a signal to decode the
PSIP, but not enough to enable sound or video.

Tam

Question for Alan F: If a station is missing its PSIP information, does
the tuner then assign the REAL channel number as the main part of the
virtual channel number?



--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Wow!! You guys are great...now I'm suffering from information
overload....lol.

Ok, am I correct in assuming that I should at LEAST get the same
stations as I do now, possibly with better reception?

The antenna that came with this tv, is one long telescoping rod...no
loop. But, I still get a UHF station fairly well.

I tried adding stations manually. I used the 4.1, 4.2 format....I wasnt
even aware of 25-1......there's no dash on the box's remote.

I live in a brick building, and the antenna is near a window facing
west....the antenna itself is facing more north (for best reception now)

This is a fairly "hilly" region that may be the problem? Then
again....I'm about midway up one of the hills.

Geez....right now I'm having problems with the little tv in my
kitchen.....I dread trying to hook up the tv in my living room and
bedroom...they aren't even close to a window.

First things first though...I'm determined to get this darn thing to
work!

Thanks again all!

On Apr 3, 12:22*pm, "Tam" wrote:

Yes. If the station is not in the scan memory you need to punch in the real
RF channel number, for instance 28 instead of 4.1. If it locks on, and your
TV shows the received channel number you will see it change from 28 or 28.1
to 4.1.

And you need the dash because otherwise, the converter may think
you're trying to tune into the analog channel. (Having three digital
tuners set by different methods helped figure that one out).

Once that channel information changes from actual to virtual (25-1 to
2-1), the tuner should remember the digital info, and you can probably
skip entering the subchannel, but not always.

On Apr 3, 12:29 pm, (Dianne K) wrote:

I tried adding stations manually. I used the 4.1, 4.2 format....I wasnt
even aware of 25-1......there's no dash on the box's remote.

Look for the .dot button then-- same thing, different name. It should
be in the lower left like the # key on a telephone. 51.1, 48.1, 38.1,
50.1, and 43.1

Cliff effect shouldn't be a factor with the stations you receive very
well. And whatever you get should come in beautifully.

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:29:43 -0400, Dianne K wrote:

Wow!! You guys are great...now I'm suffering from information
overload....lol.

Ok, am I correct in assuming that I should at LEAST get the same
stations as I do now, possibly with better reception?

The antenna that came with this tv, is one long telescoping rod...no
loop. But, I still get a UHF station fairly well.

I tried adding stations manually. I used the 4.1, 4.2 format....I wasnt
even aware of 25-1......there's no dash on the box's remote.

I live in a brick building, and the antenna is near a window facing
west....the antenna itself is facing more north (for best reception now)

This is a fairly "hilly" region that may be the problem? Then
again....I'm about midway up one of the hills.

Geez....right now I'm having problems with the little tv in my
kitchen.....I dread trying to hook up the tv in my living room and
bedroom...they aren't even close to a window.

First things first though...I'm determined to get this darn thing to
work!

Thanks again all!

It seems pretty obvious to me that your antenna situation is the problem.
There's several different ways to solve it but in the end all will involve
at least one new antenna and some cable. The ideal solution would be to
mount a good antenna outside that westward facing window pointed at 335
degrees and feed all your Tv's from it. If that's not possible then you
could try some indoor antennas on each TV, or use something like the
CM4228 inside at a central location where reception is good to feed all
the TV's, which would work better than individual smaller indoor antennas
for each TV. I got excellent reception with the CM4228 in the attic. One
thing you might consider is using the cable that was run for the cable
system. If there's a distribution box in your apartment, connecting the
antenna to it should feed every location where you had it before. This is
very difficult without actually seeing your apartment. Good luck.

--
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On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 10:13:11 -0700, remysun2000 wrote:

And you need the dash because otherwise, the converter may think you're
trying to tune into the analog channel. (Having three digital tuners set
by different methods helped figure that one out).

Just FYI, The RCA converter box I bought would select the main .1 sub
channel if no other input was given. IOW's pushing only the button 8 would
tune to 8.1, etc. I would hope they would all do that, but I don't know. I
don't think any of the boxes actually have an active analog (NTSC) tuner
in them.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Apr 3, 5:05*pm, Wes Newell wrote:

It seems pretty obvious to me that your antenna situation is the problem.

I have to disagree. She got a weather channel-- maybe NBC Weather
Plus. So one full channel has gotten through. This reminds me of three
years ago when I first got my set. I immediately tried to get the
Michigan game in HD, but got analog 7 instead. It wasn't until after a
DVD movie marathon that I accidentally stumbled onto PBS HD and Austin
City Limits.

It was only by figuring out the DT scheme that I unlocked the OTA HD
capability of my TV. Same thing happened at Christmas. So I'm feeling
pretty lucky that entering the actual analog+digital subchannel is all
we need in Dianne's case, although the subchannel might not be 1, but
2,3,4,5, or even 6. Anyway, once she locks on, the PSIP should provide
the corrections to make this a one time process.

The most important thing is referring to the digital channel in terms
of where it is in analog terms, since the PSIP hasn't found it.

On Apr 3, 5:12*pm, Wes Newell wrote:

Just FYI, The RCA converter box I bought would select the main .1 sub
channel if no other input was given. IOW's pushing only the button 8 would
tune to 8.1, etc. I would hope they would all do that, but I don't know. I
don't think any of the boxes actually have an active analog (NTSC) tuner
in them.

My TV has two tuners-- one set with digital channel info, one without.
The without depends solely on tuning to the analog equivalent. If
there's a digital signal there, it uses it. The digital will tune to
the analog channel unless a subchannel is specified. If, however, I
enter the analog equiv. of a DT channel, like 41, it will pull up 7-1.
The analog will pull up 41-3.

The DVR has its own tuner, it keeps digital channels together, then
goes through the band in another pass for analog. It prefers digital
first, lists analog as x-0, and will only accept the analog equivalent
as digital if it is followed by a dash.

So I surf digital with either my A tuner (without DT-info), or the
DVR, because it keeps my channels closer together, and I surf analog
mostly from my TV with either tune. I use the analog equivalent when
controlling my TV, and keep it simple (2,4,7) with my DVR, hitting 62
when I want to surf down from the high end.