"better than tivo" dish network ad?

Chris Adams wrote:
I had it installed and recording TV in under 30
minutes from the time the UPS delivery guy rang the doorbell.

Wow, your UPS guy rings the bell? mine just leaves stuff on the porch (and
at my old house, he left stuff on the table on the front porch)

On 2008-03-25, Wes Newell wrote:
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:20:21 -0500, Spider Dawg wrote:

On 2008-03-25, Wes Newell wrote:
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:38:07 +0000, Bill's News wrote:

Nice effort, Jim! I was unable to discern any "total points"
regarding your conclusion, but your point about initial setup is a
biggie, highly favoring TiVo over DIY MythTv.

Except for one small detail. It's mostly BS.

Thanks Wes! I've always wondered why so many around here consider you an
ass. Thanks for the clarification!

It's not just here. Many people everywhere consider me an ass. There's one
simple reason for that. I speak clearly and to the point. When it's BS, I
call it BS. That part of your post was BS.

Well, let's just go step-by-step:

You claimed that there is no need to configure MySQL. Perhaps you should
consult the "configuring MySQL" section of MythTV.org
http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html
In my case, after I'd installed Myth and tried to run it, I kept getting
error messages saying "Can't connect to the MySQL database." After
checking the Myth settings several times I finally Googled MySQL and
figured out how to set up accounts for individual users. That was the
problem all along, I hadn't given permission for my user account.

You claimed there were no dependencies to resolve. Perhaps
"dependencies" wasn't the correct word, but according to
http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html
there are several pieces of software that must be installed in addition
to Myth:
"In order to compile MythTV, we need to make sure that the software it
needs is installed. This list includes mysql, gcc, freetype2-devel,
xorg-xserver-devel, qt-devel and lame. If you're going to use a remote
control with MythTV, you're going to need the cdialog package in order
to compile lircd if your distribution doesn't have a pre-packaged lirc.
If you are using XMLTV as a grabber, you will need perl."

You claimed that you don't need a static IP. This may be true if one is
running Myth on only a single machine, because in this case it is
sufficient to simply list "localhost" as the name of the maching running
the backend. However, once a second machine is used "localhost" is no
longer sufficient, one must list the IP address of the machine running
the backend. If a static IP is not set, once the router assigns a
different IP to that machine with DHCP, *none* of the machines will
connect, you will instead get an error message like "Can't connect to
192.168.1.xxx"

You claimed that tuner cards don't require firmware drivers. In my case
I needed to load the ivtv-fb framebuffer driver in order to use TV out.
My only other options were to either settle for watching TV on the
monitor, or go out and buy a video card with TV out. I also had to add
the "fbcon=vc:0-0" kernel option to grub to keep the console from using
the framebuffer, per the "How to prevent the console from using the
framebuffer" section of the README file included in the
xf86-video-ivtv-1.0.1 source directory.

If there are easier ways of installing MythTV, I certainly never came
across them prior to installing it, which only reinforces my opinion
that MythTV is not for everyone.

I posted my experience, every word is true. Now I find that *maybe* if
I'd used a different distro things *may* have gone easier. Just more
proof that dealing with the hassle of MythTV is not for everybody. I can
just imagine my mom installing Myth and getting it to work, whereas with
TiVo it's little more than plugging the box in and following the
onscreen instructions.


My first box was also compiled from source. And I don't recall any of the
problems you claim to have experienced. Today, and that's what this should
be about, not 4 years ago, building a MythTV box is a piece of cake.
That's just the way it is. I recently upgraded my main server box with a
complete new Linux install. The whole process took less than a few hours.
That included re-installing mythtv and getting all my servers, including
mythtbackend, working again. And I didn't use a myth specific distro. I
used mandriva 2008 and just loaded the mythtv rpm's from the plf
repository. To completely install using a mythtv disro take less than an
hour. Now your that's pretty damn easy. Any normal person reading your
post would think there's no way they could do it. And that's so far from
the truth it's pathetic. Now that's the problem I have with your post.
It's pure FUD. At least the part I replied to.

What's pathetic is that you're such a Myth-illogical fanboy that you
don't know the truth when you see it.

Wes, the asshole

At least we agree on something.

Jim

Once upon a time, Peter Pan said:
Chris Adams wrote:
I had it installed and recording TV in under 30
minutes from the time the UPS delivery guy rang the doorbell.

Wow, your UPS guy rings the bell? mine just leaves stuff on the porch (and
at my old house, he left stuff on the table on the front porch)


Well, he was back in the truck before I could open the door! :-)
--
Chris Adams
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Peter Pan said:
Chris Adams wrote:
I had it installed and recording TV in under 30
minutes from the time the UPS delivery guy rang the doorbell.

Wow, your UPS guy rings the bell? mine just leaves stuff on the
porch (and at my old house, he left stuff on the table on the front
porch)

Well, he was back in the truck before I could open the door! :-)


Got a dog? We don't need no steenking bell, we have a barking dog to alert
us that someone is walking up the drive, works when the power is out
too.....

Peter Pan wrote:


Chris Adams wrote:
I had it installed and recording TV in under 30
minutes from the time the UPS delivery guy rang the doorbell.

Wow, your UPS guy rings the bell? mine just leaves stuff on the porch (and
at my old house, he left stuff on the table on the front porch)


Mine not only rings the bell, but he leaves stuff on the porch

In article , "Peter Pan" wrote:
Chris Adams wrote:
I had it installed and recording TV in under 30
minutes from the time the UPS delivery guy rang the doorbell.

Wow, your UPS guy rings the bell? mine just leaves stuff on the porch (and
at my old house, he left stuff on the table on the front porch)



Well FedExjust dropped off a huge box with a rack mount TBC in it down my 4
foot deep window well. Damn near killed me trying to fish that one out. It
weighs 35 pounds and in a huge box.

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:40:59 -0700, zafdor wrote:

On Mar 25, 4:56Â*pm, Wes Newell wrote: The
only major
problem I had was not knowing that one of the cards I was using
required a firmware file to work. And that took a few weeks to dicover.
But the other ATSC card worked right from the start. The nice thing
about ATSC cards is that there's no encoding to deal with. Within a
month or so I had 4 of them recording HDTV at the same as watching it
on the same box.

It's nice to see you reinforce what is now a unanimous opinion, that
Myth can be a pain to set up; unless of corse you think a couple of
weeks to a month is a reasonable time to set up a DVR.

And it's nice to see you still can't read. It took me that long to add the
other tuners. MythTV worked from day one.


--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:20:07 +0000, nigel wrote:

To be honest, I downloaded MythTV ages ago and even went looking for
video cards, but all this pushing of it has really put me off and I'm
not even bothered about giving it a try any more. Whatever you're trying
to do, Wes, has had the opposite result on me.

That's fine with me. Your loss.

I guess most people are like that, the more you push, the more they
resist.

Yeah, I'm really a Tivo rep.:-)

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:58:39 -0500, Spider Dawg wrote:

On 2008-03-25, Wes Newell wrote:
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:20:21 -0500, Spider Dawg wrote:

On 2008-03-25, Wes Newell wrote:
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:38:07 +0000, Bill's News wrote:

Nice effort, Jim! I was unable to discern any "total points"
regarding your conclusion, but your point about initial setup is a
biggie, highly favoring TiVo over DIY MythTv.

Except for one small detail. It's mostly BS.

Thanks Wes! I've always wondered why so many around here consider you
an ass. Thanks for the clarification!

It's not just here. Many people everywhere consider me an ass. There's
one simple reason for that. I speak clearly and to the point. When it's
BS, I call it BS. That part of your post was BS.

Well, let's just go step-by-step:

You claimed that there is no need to configure MySQL. Perhaps you should
consult the "configuring MySQL" section of MythTV.org
http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html In my case, after I'd
installed Myth and tried to run it, I kept getting error messages saying
"Can't connect to the MySQL database." After checking the Myth settings
several times I finally Googled MySQL and figured out how to set up
accounts for individual users. That was the problem all along, I hadn't
given permission for my user account.

I don't need to read the docs, I know how it works. You chose a manual
install, rather than a specific MythTV distro, which handles all that crap
for you automatically. I did too the first time about 4 years ago. And I
followed the simple instructions that took a few minutes to do.

You claimed there were no dependencies to resolve. Perhaps
"dependencies" wasn't the correct word, but according to
http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html there are several pieces
of software that must be installed in addition to Myth:
"In order to compile MythTV, we need to make sure that the software it
needs is installed. This list includes mysql, gcc, freetype2-devel,
xorg-xserver-devel, qt-devel and lame. If you're going to use a remote
control with MythTV, you're going to need the cdialog package in order
to compile lircd if your distribution doesn't have a pre-packaged lirc.
If you are using XMLTV as a grabber, you will need perl."

Those are not dependencies (which is something totally different), they
are prerequisites. The OS is also a prerequisite. And this only applies if
you are doing a manual install. All I did was install the rpm's just like
you would any other piece of software. Again, you don't have to screw with
this if you use, you guessed it, a MythTV distro.

You claimed that you don't need a static IP. This may be true if one is
running Myth on only a single machine, because in this case it is
sufficient to simply list "localhost" as the name of the maching running
the backend. However, once a second machine is used "localhost" is no
longer sufficient, one must list the IP address of the machine running
the backend. If a static IP is not set, once the router assigns a
different IP to that machine with DHCP, *none* of the machines will
connect, you will instead get an error message like "Can't connect to
192.168.1.xxx"

The router always gives the same dynamic IP on each port, so it's
perfectly fine to use dynamic IP's. The machines dynamic IP address won't
change unless you change some wiring. OTOH, I do prefer and use static
IP's most of the time. That's a personal choice and certainly not required
even in multiple box systems. But I never recommend using dynamic IP's on
desktop machines. Especially servers. So yeah, take the 30 seconds to a
minute it takes to chamge from dhcp to static if you want to.

You claimed that tuner cards don't require firmware drivers. In my case
I needed to load the ivtv-fb framebuffer driver in order to use TV out.
My only other options were to either settle for watching TV on the
monitor, or go out and buy a video card with TV out. I also had to add
the "fbcon=vc:0-0" kernel option to grub to keep the console from using
the framebuffer, per the "How to prevent the console from using the
framebuffer" section of the README file included in the
xf86-video-ivtv-1.0.1 source directory.

WTF is it about usenet. Can't anyone read? I claimed not ALL cards
required firmware files. And I can't help it if you chose a card you
couldn't get to work. Or you didn't have a video card with with a TV out
port. That has nothing to do with MythTV working. What that shows is that
you didn't do enough front end research. IOW's you created your own
problems. And now because you had such a rough time because of your own
mistakes, you deem it a hard thing to build. Well, that's just BS.

If there are easier ways of installing MythTV, I certainly never came
across them prior to installing it, which only reinforces my opinion
that MythTV is not for everyone.

You should have researched it more before starting. Knoppmyth has been out
for a number of years. You could have avoided most, if not all of your
problems with proper hardware and using Knoppmyth. If I weren't running
several servers on my machine back then I would have used Knoppmyth too.
As it turned out for me, I didn't have a problem compiling the source.
Later I found out there were precompiled MythTV packages for the Linux
version I was using. I've always used Myth distros for the other boxes in
my system. And each of those is running both frontend and slave backend
servers. MythBuntu is the easiest IMO. It also has the latest kernel of
the 3 I know of. All of the4m have a few problems if you are going to use
them for a slave backend server machine, or a serial remote, but for a
standalone or frontend only machine they work fine.



I posted my experience, every word is true. Now I find that *maybe* if
I'd used a different distro things *may* have gone easier. Just more
proof that dealing with the hassle of MythTV is not for everybody. I
can just imagine my mom installing Myth and getting it to work,
whereas with TiVo it's little more than plugging the box in and
following the onscreen instructions.


My first box was also compiled from source. And I don't recall any of
the problems you claim to have experienced. Today, and that's what this
should be about, not 4 years ago, building a MythTV box is a piece of
cake. That's just the way it is. I recently upgraded my main server box
with a complete new Linux install. The whole process took less than a
few hours. That included re-installing mythtv and getting all my
servers, including mythtbackend, working again. And I didn't use a myth
specific distro. I used mandriva 2008 and just loaded the mythtv rpm's
from the plf repository. To completely install using a mythtv disro
take less than an hour. Now your that's pretty damn easy. Any normal
person reading your post would think there's no way they could do it.
And that's so far from the truth it's pathetic. Now that's the problem
I have with your post. It's pure FUD. At least the part I replied to.

What's pathetic is that you're such a Myth-illogical fanboy that you
don't know the truth when you see it.

What's more pathetic is your attempt to make something so simple look so
hard by using your own pathetic attempt to build a box 4 years ago as an
example.

Now perhaps this should move to the mythtv newsgroup.



--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

In article
writes:

To be honest, I downloaded MythTV ages ago and even went looking for
video cards, but all this pushing of it has really put me off and I'm
not even bothered about giving it a try any more. Whatever you're trying
to do, Wes, has had the opposite result on me.

Wes is the DVR equivilent of all the gearheads who look at me like
I can't tie my shoes when I say that I take my car to an oil change
place. "What do you mean? All you have to do is[list of things
they like doing and I hate]. It's EASY." Their main effect on me
(other than learning to avoid them) has been putting off oil changes.

I *can* assemble a machine to do the stuff that MythTV does. I
happen to prefer spending my time elsewhere and I like the product
that TiVo offers.

Somehow that offends some people.

--
Drew Lawson | We were taking a vote when
| the ground came up and hit us.
http://www.furrfu.com/ | -- Cylon warrior