"better than tivo" dish network ad?

Warning: long, and boring to anyone not interested in MythTV. Hopefully
it won't be considered a terrible waste of bandwidth.

Perhaps this might be a good time for me to chime in with my own MythTV
experience. First the short answers. Is Myth "better" than TiVo? It has
some features that I like better than TiVo, like automatically skipping
commercial breaks, but overall no IMO. Is it cheaper? Definitely cheaper
per month ($20/year for SchedulesDirect vs $12.95/month for TiVo), but
debateable for initial cost. My TiVo (SD-H400) cost me $150 after
rebate, the tuner card in my Myth box (Hauppage (sp?) PVR350) cost that
much alone. Please note that in my case both are analog cable, I've yet
to take the HD DVR plunge, although I have finally purchased an HDTV.

TiVo pros:
TiVo was easy to set up, and has worked *nearly* flawlessly ever since
(I did have to replace the hdd about 1.5 years ago). 3 weeks of guide
data vs 2 with SchedulesDirect. TiVo Suggestions, which I like because
it's pretty good at "knowing" what I like. Just plain easy to use,
plenty of info right on the screen when desired. Not terribly expensive
to purchase, my $150 unit included a DVD player. I like the Amazon Unbox
feature, but let's face it you can do that with any computer if you have
it connected to a tv like I do (dvi-to-hdmi). Automatic downloading of
video podcasts, which is a large part of my viewing these days (I miss
TechTV and like the techie podcasts). Ability to do basically everything
you want with the remote, although there are many times I'd rather use
this keyboard. Can download shows to any computer on my home network,
even though they are all running SuSE, via the (undocumented) web
interface. Ability to schedule recordings from *any* web device, I once
scheduled a recording of a football game with a demo iPhone at a local
AT&T store. Many more features that I'll think of later.

TiVo cons:
Monthly fee; archiving is slow due to encryption/decryption; "having" to
fast-forward to get past commercials (which is great except when
compared to Myth's automatic skipping). That's all I can come up with
since I'm not yet trying to record HD.

MythTV pros:
First a bit of info about my setup, my tuner card has hardware mpeg
encoding/decoding so it's not terribly taxing on the CPU, much like
TiVo. From what I've read tuners that lack hardware enc/dec require
much beefier systems. My system runs very smoothly, recording shows in
unencrypted mpeg, so archiving is easy and I can do just about anything
I want on the computer while it's recording shows. Like I've mentioned
twice already, it can be configured to automatically skip commercial
breaks altogether when playing back recorded shows, although this
feature doesn't work perfectly. Sometimes I still have to manually skip
past the breaks. I like the way the buffer records through channel
changes, unlike the way the buffer is lost when changing channels on
TiVo. Overall it works much like TiVo, examples include creation of
"bookmarks" when stopping playback, so that playback can resume where it
was stopped; scheduling options much like season pass, etc. I'm using
the tv-out cables from the tuner card, (my Myth box is in a different
room than the box connected to the HDTV), and can swithch consoles and
check email/usenet while watching tv (as I'm doing now). I have a Myth
frontend running on the box connected to the HDTV, so I can watch live
tv or recorded shows in either room. I have both boxes networked via
NFS, so transfering shows from one box to the other is quite easy.
Overall it's not much different from TiVo.

MythTV cons:
Very difficult for a novice to set up. "Have" to run a Linux OS (which I
prefer anyway, but most folks have no experience with at all). Just
resolving dependencies and installing the software would be too
difficult for most non-Linux people, but configuring and actually
getting it to work at all was difficult even for me. In addition to the
simple stuff a user would have to do to set up a TiVo box, I had to
figure out how to: set up a MySQL database and add user accounts;
configure the computer to use a static IP (simple really, but probably
not for the "average joe"); figure out how to load the ivtv-fb driver
to get the tv-out on the tuner card to work; I still haven't gotten X to run
on the tv-out, so no program info appears on the tv screen (not even
what channel it's on) although I can get the program guide on the
computer monitor while watching programs on the tv; I had to figure out
that I needed to add a boot option in Grub to keep the tv-out from
taking over the consoles, prior to that a console output would freeze on
the tv screen if I "screwed up" and switched consoles with the ivtv-fb
module loaded, and would have to reboot the box in order to be able to
watch tv again.

"Fortunately" for me, I have been unable to work for the last 5 weeks and
a project like this was just what I needed to keep me busy, but most people
wouldn't want to put this much time into this even if they have the know-how.
And overall my Myth box is just plain buggy, it occasionally freezes up
and won't do anything until I restart the X server. There's probably
some configuration or hardware setting etc that would fix some of that,
but these issues don't exist with my TiVo.

I'm glad to have a MythTV box to supplement my TiVo, and plan to
purchase an HD tuner card and give that a whirl, but I can't recommend
MythTV to anywhere near as many people as to whom I'd recommend TiVo. If
someone is having the issues the OP is having and feel up to tackling
what I've described above, Myth would be a very good way to record and
archive HD programs that the TiVo won't transfer, but IMO I'd still keep
the TiVo and perhaps only run Myth when wanting to record an HD program
that they want to archive (or of couse when wanting to simultaneously
record more shows than the number of tuners in the TiVo).

My 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

Jim

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:00:24 -0000, wrote:
On 2008-03-24, Wes Newell wrote:
I only see one lie here, and it's yours. So now that you've called me a
liar, why not prove it with something I've said about MythTV that isn't
true. I know you can't. Just want to see what kind of BS response you have.

You've stated several times that you do not push MythTV
in this newsgroup. I don't know of anybody other than
you that regards that as true.

Hell, most of the time, the topic never comes up AT ALL, unless Wes
brings it up.



--
16. I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one
thing I want to know."
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:00:24 +0000, chrisb wrote:

On 2008-03-24, Wes Newell wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:40:54 +0000, Ron wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:10:03 GMT, wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:
You're going to buy a Tivo-HD for recording OTA in DFW? There's a
much better and much cheaper way. I've been recording HDTV here for
years. I wouldn't use a Tivo-HD if it were given to me. It's just
too limiting. See Tivo HD/S3 compared below. Give me a call or email
if you have questions.

No, I didn't say that.

It would be nice if Wes took his Trolling Lies about Myth TV to a
newsgroup appropriate for those that have the time, money and patience
to mess with it.

I only see one lie here, and it's yours. So now that you've called me a
liar, why not prove it with something I've said about MythTV that isn't
true. I know you can't. Just want to see what kind of BS response you
have.

You've stated several times that you do not push MythTV in this
newsgroup. I don't know of anybody other than you that regards that as
true.

Then everyone you know is an idiot. I've also recommended Tivo's, so do I
push them too? If I wanted to push NythTV for some stupid reason even
though it doesn't benefit me in one single way, I'd flood the group with
postings listing the it's benefits every day. I only recommend a PC
recorder when it is the best equipment for the job. And with OTA HDTV, it
is. If you'd like, I'll show you what pushing a product is in a separate
post. Just let me know if you'd like to see it.:-)

You've been wrong on many occasions - I don't regard most of those as
lying, just wrong, like all of us are on occasion. You just happen to
be wrong here more often than most, since you have basically no
experience with a subscribed TiVo.

Chris

I've been wrong on a few occasions, but not near as much as anyone in this
group. I've never intentionally lied about anything. I've caught many a
Tivo fan boy in lies and proved it. And you know nothing about my
experience with the Tivo I had for about 5 years. I had a free
subscription for a limited time. I did not subscribe after it ran out.
With only a single tuner, I didn't see the point. It was easy just to set
manual season passes and forget it. I didn't care about the limited on
screen guide. The TV guide that came in the paper was easier to read.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:03:56 -0500, Peter H. Coffin wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:00:24 -0000, wrote:
On 2008-03-24, Wes Newell wrote:
I only see one lie here, and it's yours. So now that you've called me
a liar, why not prove it with something I've said about MythTV that
isn't true. I know you can't. Just want to see what kind of BS
response you have.

You've stated several times that you do not push MythTV in this
newsgroup. I don't know of anybody other than you that regards that as
true.

Hell, most of the time, the topic never comes up AT ALL, unless Wes
brings it up.

That wouldn't be because others are too afraid of the ridicule you dumbass
TivoNeros give anyone that doesn't praise Tivo now would it?:-)

I didn't even like this group when I first got my Tivo back in 2001. This
place was full of BS then. I don't suppose it will ever change.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:10:42 -0500, Spider Dawg wrote:

Warning: long, and boring to anyone not interested in MythTV. Hopefully
it won't be considered a terrible waste of bandwidth.

I'm only going to address the Myth cons. And I'll try and break them down
for better understanding.

MythTV cons:
Very difficult for a novice to set up. "Have" to run a Linux OS (which I
prefer anyway, but most folks have no experience with at all). Just
resolving dependencies and installing the software would be too
difficult for most non-Linux people, but configuring and actually
getting it to work at all was difficult even for me. In addition to the
simple stuff a user would have to do to set up a TiVo box, I had to
figure out how to: set up a MySQL database and add user accounts;
configure the computer to use a static IP (simple really, but probably
not for the "average joe");

First of all the OS is transparent to the installer. Using one of the
custom MythTV distros makes installing a snap. I've used Knoppmyth,
MythDora, and MythBuntu. Mythbuntu is by far the easiest IMO. You don't
need to know Linux at all, and you don't have to configure mysql at all.
You also don't have to screw with dependencies. What you do have to know
is how to insert and boot a CD. After that, you need to know how to read.
You do need to make sure your equipment is compatible before you start
installing. A quick trip to the mythtv newsgroup and you should be able to
find out what you need. And you don't have to use static IP's. Although I
prefer them for other reasons. Once you have your box built, it shouldn't
take more than an hour to install MythTV. I only recommend building an
ATSC box for several reasons. First and foremost, NTSC is crap and will
die in less than a year, except on cable. I would only recommend a myth
box on cable if you only have analog cable and want more than a couple of
tuners But for all practical purposes, with digital cable, you'd be better
off using the cable co. DVR or a Tivo-HD with cable cards.

figure out how to load the ivtv-fb driver to

many tuner cards don't require firmware drivers, and most that do will
automatically be configured if you use a MythTV distro like MythBuntu.

get the tv-out on the tuner card to work; I still haven't gotten X to
run on the tv-out, so no program info appears on the tv screen (not even
what channel it's on) although I can get the program guide on the
computer monitor while watching programs on the tv; I had to figure out
that I needed to add a boot option in Grub to keep the tv-out from
taking over the consoles, prior to that a console output would freeze on
the tv screen if I "screwed up" and switched consoles with the ivtv-fb
module loaded, and would have to reboot the box in order to be able to
watch tv again.

None of this should be an issue. You do not want to use the tuner cards TV
out. In fact, I don't know of any ATSC card that has a tuner out on it.
There is one that has a daughter board for it, but you would not want to
use it with MythTV.

"Fortunately" for me, I have been unable to work for the last 5 weeks
and a project like this was just what I needed to keep me busy, but most
people wouldn't want to put this much time into this even if they have
the know-how. And overall my Myth box is just plain buggy, it
occasionally freezes up and won't do anything until I restart the X
server. There's probably some configuration or hardware setting etc that
would fix some of that, but these issues don't exist with my TiVo.

And they've never existed in any Myth box I've ever done either. Wait a
minute. I do remember not long ago when it did. Traced the problem down to
the new ram I installed being set to 1.9v when it was rated for 2.1v. Only
caused problems under full load and would pass memtest. IOW's it had
nothing to do with MythTV. that's not to say it doesn't have bugs. I'm
sure it does, but it works very reliable for me.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On 2008-03-22, notme wrote:
Of course they would say "better than Tivo."

They have lost a multi-million $ lawsuit for pilfering Tivo technology. Like
50 mill or more.

Now they say they have their own technology.

A little late, guys.

What technology?

cat /dev/video myshow.mpg &
mplayer myshow.mpg

[deletia]

--

Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
affairs, government and business.


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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On 2008-03-22, Tony D. wrote:
Bill Kearney wrote:
And OTA digital is so good in most cities that folks will be dropping
cable or satellite, so they can pay for gasolene.

OTA still only gets you broadcast network programming. There's a lot
more to what people want to watch than just what's on OTA stations. I'm
sure there's a segment of subscribers that will have to make budget
choices, but variety of programming won't be their prime motivation.

Since I'm not a sports fan, I'd say 80% of what I watch is OTA. And
while SCI-FI, National Geographic and 1 or 2 others might be nice, I'm
not one of these nuts who absolutely die if they can't watch 50 year old
b/w films in HD on the History channel or the individual parsley flakes
on the Food Network. At least not for $30/mo more. And at that, if
SCI-FI shows something other than the grade Z direct to DVD stuff, I can

Even the good stuff that Sci-Fi shows is dominated by stuff that's
also available OTA (Dr. Who, Heroes, Stargate) or can often be found in
your local DVD bargain bin.

We're already to the point where we could tolerate a really long
cable outtage between the 1000 hours of recording space we have and
the collection of various DVDs in the virtual jukebox.

always d/l from Usenet and watch in HD.



--

Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
affairs, government and business.


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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On 2008-03-24, Spider Dawg wrote:

Warning: long, and boring to anyone not interested in MythTV. Hopefully
it won't be considered a terrible waste of bandwidth.

Perhaps this might be a good time for me to chime in with my own MythTV
experience. First the short answers. Is Myth "better" than TiVo? It has
some features that I like better than TiVo, like automatically skipping
commercial breaks, but overall no IMO. Is it cheaper? Definitely cheaper
per month ($20/year for SchedulesDirect vs $12.95/month for TiVo), but
debateable for initial cost. My TiVo (SD-H400) cost me $150 after
rebate, the tuner card in my Myth box (Hauppage (sp?) PVR350) cost that
much alone. Please note that in my case both are analog cable, I've yet
to take the HD DVR plunge, although I have finally purchased an HDTV.

TiVo pros:
TiVo was easy to set up, and has worked *nearly* flawlessly ever since
(I did have to replace the hdd about 1.5 years ago). 3 weeks of guide
[deletia]
TiVo cons:
Monthly fee; archiving is slow due to encryption/decryption; "having" to
fast-forward to get past commercials (which is great except when
compared to Myth's automatic skipping). That's all I can come up with
since I'm not yet trying to record HD.

MythTV pros:
First a bit of info about my setup, my tuner card has hardware mpeg
encoding/decoding so it's not terribly taxing on the CPU, much like
TiVo. From what I've read tuners that lack hardware enc/dec require
much beefier systems. My system runs very smoothly, recording shows in
unencrypted mpeg, so archiving is easy and I can do just about anything
[deletia]
MythTV cons:
Very difficult for a novice to set up. "Have" to run a Linux OS (which I
prefer anyway, but most folks have no experience with at all). Just
resolving dependencies and installing the software would be too
difficult for most non-Linux people, but configuring and actually
[deletia]

While Linux may scare many potential HTPC users, MythTV is not
the only media center solution. There are multiple options available
for all 3 platforms. The people that handle the tech end of things
at Forbes have been gushing over the Vista version of MCE for awhile
now.

--

Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
affairs, government and business.


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:38:07 +0000, Bill's News wrote:

Nice effort, Jim! I was unable to discern any "total points" regarding
your conclusion, but your point about initial setup is a biggie, highly
favoring TiVo over DIY MythTv.

Except for one small detail. It's mostly BS.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Mar 24, 9:38*pm, "Bill's News" wrote:
Spider Dawg wrote
TiVo cons:
Monthly fee; archiving is slow due to encryption/decryption;
"having" to fast-forward to get past commercials (which is
great except when compared to Myth's automatic skipping).

I've had mixed results with Myths commercial skipping. Yes, getting
stuff off the box is a pain in the a$$ with Tivo. Then again, even
with full bandwidth, it will take a few minutes to move a multigig
program, so planning is required it you want to go mobile with it.
Tivo desktop is the posterchild for bloatware as well.


MythTV pros:

I'm glad to have a MythTV box to supplement my TiVo, and plan
to purchase an HD tuner card and give that a whirl, but I
can't recommend MythTV to anywhere near as many people as to
whom I'd recommend TiVo.

There is but one thing I liked better about the Myth GUI; preview &
detailed description when selecting a show, unfortunately everthing
else was a minus. There is certainly a lot more flexibility, but I
never found the menus as logical as Tivo.



Nice effort, Jim! *I was unable to discern any "total points"
regarding your conclusion, but your point about initial setup is
a biggie, highly favoring TiVo over DIY MythTv.


I don't think total points comes into play here. Most people are just
not willing to 'deal with it' set up and maintence wise. If you're a
techie in search of adventure and does'nt want sattelite or cablecard
support, Myth is the way to go.

I had high hopes I would be able to use Myth as a media center. If
you thought there could be no worse way to serve MP3s then what the
tivo does, you're right, but Myth is not much better. Niether of the
development team owns an iPod apparently! I did not spend much time
on it, but I never got a game to run on it either. Surf the web on a
TV, hmmm was'nt there a company that tried that? No, I don't want to
use my TV for a phone, that you very much. When I migrate the home
theater to blue ray/high def, I may try another media PC, but it was
certainly a failure the first time with Myth. It may be time to send
money to redmond.

When I took my myth box out of service, I offered to a friend who is a
network admin and fluent in Unix; he did'nt want to deal with it
either! Anyone looking for a working (SD) myth box to play with, let
me know, you can have mine for cheap. And spidderdawg, I spent enough
hours reading through the internet that I got the TV out working on
the happague card. Like everthing in unix, a simple text editor and a
few keystrokes is all that is needed to fix it once the solution is
known.