My latest reply to BBC3 about the DOG

wrote in message
...
On 13 Mar, 22:52, Monsieur Tabernac
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:39:20 -0000, "Agamemnon"





wrote:
Since you have completely ignored the main issue of my complaint which
was
that the new DOG has made BBC3 totally unwatchable I will not be watching
anything on BBC3 again that contains a DOG, and I expect most other
viewers
will do the same thing. Your claim that the brightness has been reduced
to
70% transparency is completely disingenuous since the DOG looks exactly
the
same brightness and as distracting as it was before and during dark
scenes
in a program still looks as bright as the sun. On top of that the fact
that
it is coloured bright purple makes it impossible to ignore it and ruins
the
programmes it is on.

Stop insulting the intelligence of your viewers who know perfectly well
which channel they are watching and what is coming up next by pressing
the
Info or EPG button on their remote control and stop trying to copy
commercial television.

YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE DOES NOT WANT DOGS POLLUTING THEIR SCREENS. If you
claim otherwise then produce the evidence that more people have written
in
requesting DOGs to be placed on BBC3 programmes than have written in
asking
for them to be removed. Produce the evidence that when asked the simple
question "do you want programmes including Drama, Comedy and Films
transmitted with DOGs on the screen or would you prefer the programmes to
be
transmitted without DOGs" that they supported the former and not the
later.
If you cannot produce the evidence and publish it then your claim is
clearly
a BLATANT LIE!

If DOGs were about helping people to identify the channel they are
watching
by branding them then why aren't they broadcast during commercial breaks
or
during trailers for programmes on other channels which confuse people
into
they are thinking that they have accidentally tuned into a different
channel
from the one they picked from their EPG?

Why can't you make the DOG optional by using an MHEG overlay instead
which
can be deactivated by pressing the Green button like the "press red"
overlays on News24?

If DOGs are the norm for youth programming then why aren't they placed on
the same programmes when they are released on DVD? I'll tell you why.
Because no one would buy them or rent them. Would you want DOGs placed
all
over your favourite photographs and pictures of your wedding and your
children? Do your children want that? If not then why are they being
inflicted on viewers of BBC3?

Finally I noticed that the DOG was left out of yesterdays (12/3/2008)
BBC3
episode of Torchwood. I hope this will continued that way and was not a
mistake, otherwise I will not be watching it again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

Great stuff, Aggy. You should have thrown an "IMBECILE!" in there,
though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Frighteningly, this is apparently Aggy's idea of a reasoned, formal
letter of complaint.

Phil



Also notice how his spellchecker suddenly seems to work right...

The Real Zarbiface wrote:
On 14 Mar, 01:45, "Broadway Blue" wrote:
Agamemnon wrote:

Why spend thousands of pounds on a large HD screen and STB when it
will have DOG **** plastered all over it forcing you to watch the
SD or Terrestrial analogue version instead.

That is actually a good point.

Hmmm... not sure about that. The picture would be enlarged in
proportion on a bigger screen so the logo would be no more distracting
than it is now. It'd still take up the same percentage of screen, if
you see what I mean.

I don't like them. Some I notice more than others, but even so I
would rather we had none on any channel at all. But I live in the real
world and accept that they are here for the duration or until something
else takes over our screens. That's the way TV is these days. I don't
watch much of it myself and just buy what I like on DVD where possible.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:20:19 +0000, Kay Robinson
wrote:

As an exercise try reading a
novel at the same time as building a computer. You can do a bit of one
and then a bit of the other but not both at the same time. Unless you
are some sort of alien creature your eyes cannot focus on the written
page and on the tip of your soldering iron at the same time.

What do you use a soldering iron for when building a computer?

To stop your software from flopping around

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:20:19 +0000, Kay Robinson
wrote:

As an exercise try reading a
novel at the same time as building a computer. You can do a bit of one
and then a bit of the other but not both at the same time. Unless you
are some sort of alien creature your eyes cannot focus on the written
page and on the tip of your soldering iron at the same time.

What do you use a soldering iron for when building a computer?

On Mar 15, 5:23*pm, solar penguin
wrote:
On 15 Mar, 16:41, "Agamemnon" wrote:



Playing with the cats... Playing with the cats! The hypocrisy.

Aggy, I know you might find this a bit hard to believe, but it _is_
possible to own pets _without_ fantasising about raping them.

OK I apologise, if Aggy objects to DOGS then they must actually be OK

Regards

Ged

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:40:37 -0700 (PDT), solar penguin
wrote:

No. You would be _wrong_ to claim the _same_ people want both DOGs
and compressed credits. I want DOGS but I don't want compressed
credits. Therefore it cannot be the same group of people who want
both. (There may be some people who belong to both groups, but that
doesn't change the _fact_ that they are two seperate groups.)


If those responsible for delivering programmes think I need a DOG to
tell me what channel I am on, then I think that they think I am less
intelligent than I am (I think!)

Why? It's _very_ easy to get confused. Here's one real example of a
time when I got muddled up:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....3429dfdeb275ef
or http://tinyurl.com/2lu2ae

The programme had only just started, so I must have seen the BBC1
continuity ident, and heard the announcer say something like "Now on
BBC1, David Tennant on 'Who Do You Think You Are?'" Despite that, I
was somehow convinced I was watching BBC2, and made a fool of myself
in public over it!

I don't understand. Why would it matter which channel you are
watching? Surely it's the program that is important.

I guess that might be something to do with the way I watch telly. I
one of those people who can't give it my full attention. Well,
programmes nowadays are so dumbed down that there's not enough
substance to need your full attention. So I'll be playing with the
cats, or flicking through a book, or checking radw, while the TV is in
the background.

So to translate - you find the DOGs useful because you are not really
watching the TV?

M.

In message
,
solar penguin Proclaimed from the tallest
tower:


And for having-on-in-the background entertainment there they're
turning to iPods and MP3 players. I've tried them, but I can't enjoy
them myself because the earpieces always feel so irritating. They
just cause me to build up lots and lots of earwax.


Have you considered trying a different pair of headphones?

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

In message ,
Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com Proclaimed from the tallest
tower:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:20:19 +0000, Kay Robinson
wrote:

As an exercise try reading a
novel at the same time as building a computer. You can do a bit of
one and then a bit of the other but not both at the same time.
Unless you are some sort of alien creature your eyes cannot focus on
the written page and on the tip of your soldering iron at the same
time.

What do you use a soldering iron for when building a computer?

Duh! Isn't that obvious? For soldering the processor and memory chips onto
the motherboard!! Tsk, some people!!

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

Agamemnon wrote:
Since you have completely ignored the main issue of my complaint which was
that the new DOG has made BBC3 totally unwatchable I will not be watching
anything on BBC3 again that contains a DOG, and I expect most other viewers
will do the same thing. Your claim that the brightness has been reduced to
70% transparency is completely disingenuous since the DOG looks exactly the
same brightness and as distracting as it was before and during dark scenes
in a program still looks as bright as the sun. On top of that the fact that
it is coloured bright purple makes it impossible to ignore it and ruins the
programmes it is on.

Stop insulting the intelligence of your viewers who know perfectly well
which channel they are watching and what is coming up next by pressing the
Info or EPG button on their remote control and stop trying to copy
commercial television.

YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE DOES NOT WANT DOGS POLLUTING THEIR SCREENS. If you
claim otherwise then produce the evidence that more people have written in
requesting DOGs to be placed on BBC3 programmes than have written in asking
for them to be removed. Produce the evidence that when asked the simple
question "do you want programmes including Drama, Comedy and Films
transmitted with DOGs on the screen or would you prefer the programmes to be
transmitted without DOGs" that they supported the former and not the later.
If you cannot produce the evidence and publish it then your claim is clearly
a BLATANT LIE!

If DOGs were about helping people to identify the channel they are watching
by branding them then why aren't they broadcast during commercial breaks or
during trailers for programmes on other channels which confuse people into
they are thinking that they have accidentally tuned into a different channel
from the one they picked from their EPG?

Why can't you make the DOG optional by using an MHEG overlay instead which
can be deactivated by pressing the Green button like the "press red"
overlays on News24?

If DOGs are the norm for youth programming then why aren't they placed on
the same programmes when they are released on DVD? I'll tell you why.
Because no one would buy them or rent them. Would you want DOGs placed all
over your favourite photographs and pictures of your wedding and your
children? Do your children want that? If not then why are they being
inflicted on viewers of BBC3?

Finally I noticed that the DOG was left out of yesterdays (12/3/2008) BBC3
episode of Torchwood. I hope this will continued that way and was not a
mistake, otherwise I will not be watching it again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/


For grins, I complained to the BBC about the BBC Three DOG. Here's the
responses that I got.

----- begin insert -----

Dear Mr Dye

Thank you for your email regarding 'Gavin & Stacey' on BBC Three.

I was sorry to read that your enjoyment of the programme was affected by
BBC Three's Digital On-screen Graphic. I understand you feel that it is
distracting, unnecessary and are concerned about screen damage as a
result of it.

The BBC, in common with other broadcasters, has adopted a policy of
inserting Channel Identifiers in the top left-hand corner of the screen
on its dedicated digital channels. This is because, in the current
competitive multi-channel environment, we feel that such identifiers are
an aid to viewer navigation.

The position of the Channel Identifier has been set at the top left-hand
part of the picture; it would not be easy to place it elsewhere (at the
bottom, for example) due to the fact that it might clash with subtitles
or captions. The top left part of the screen rarely contains sensitive
material which one might obscure or interfere with.

This policy has evolved over the last couple of years and is applied in
what we believe is a flexible manner which best reflects the needs of
the majority of our audience - for example, we broadcast films without a
DOG on both BBC Three and BBC Four and additionally performance, comedy
and longer drama on BBC Four. This is a flexible application of our
policy on Channel Identifiers and not a reflection on the quality of
individual programmes and covers those programmes which we believe
viewers tend to watch for longer periods of time. This decision takes
into account a wide range of issues, balancing all the relevant factors
in what we judge to be the best interest of the majority of licence fee
payers.

The re-vamp of BBC Three gave us the opportunity to refresh our image.
Our logo had not been changed since the channel's launch five years ago.
The logo and branding changes were part of a number of big changes to
the channel. Our BBC logos work to make sure our channels and services
stand out among media brands and are appealing to their target audiences
on TV and online.

The colour pink was chosen because it is warm, vibrant and an alive
colour to match the channel's image. The logo was then reduced to 70%
transparency, which was one of the levels previously used by BBC Three.
This level was agreed after consultations with BBC TV operations, as we
are aware of issues of screen burn to some sets caused by solid logos.
The BBC has also sought advice about this from manufacturers, and the
clear view from the industry is in normal use, screen-burn is not
expected to be a problem. Where it could possibly occur, the viewer can
take avoiding action. The advice given by one manufacturer in a TV
manual expresses the situation well, and is quoted with their permission:

"If still picture cannot be avoided, reduce the brightness and contrast
levels of the picture to minimise any damage that might occur."

We do value feedback of this kind as it is a useful part of the
monitoring process we constantly undertake and I would like to assure
you Mr Dye that we have registered your complaint on our audience log.
This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily
for all programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC,
and also their senior management. It ensures that your points, and all
other comments we receive, are circulated and considered across the BBC.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact the BBC.

Regards

Barry Graham
BBC Complaints

----- end insert -----

In other words, and as I'd largely already surmised before receiving the
reply, a pretty standard response making it quite clear that regardless
of what Joe Public might think, the DOG is staying - like it or lump it.

There's no getting away from the fact that this is a pretty intrusive
DOG, both by colour and position on-screen. Clearly, those drones at the
Beeb charged with making BBC Three look as much like E4 as possible
aren't going to listen to us licence payers, so you have to take view as
to whether you can tolerate the DOGs whilst watching the channel. For my
part, the only thing that I've watched on the channel for some time is
the new Gavin and Stacey series. I can't be arsed to wait for it to
surface on DVD just to avoid the DOG (why pay twice, after all) although
I suppose I could wait for it to appear on DOGless BBC2 at some point.
Life is too short however, but I certainly won't be going out of my way
to look at BBC Three for general entertainment (read: something to watch
whilst eating my dinner) whilst the DOG persists. Nice one, BBC.


Clem

"Clem Dye" wrote in message
...
Agamemnon wrote:
Since you have completely ignored the main issue of my complaint which
was that the new DOG has made BBC3 totally unwatchable I will not be
watching anything on BBC3 again that contains a DOG, and I expect most
other viewers will do the same thing. Your claim that the brightness has
been reduced to 70% transparency is completely disingenuous since the DOG
looks exactly the same brightness and as distracting as it was before and
during dark scenes in a program still looks as bright as the sun. On top
of that the fact that it is coloured bright purple makes it impossible to
ignore it and ruins the programmes it is on.

Stop insulting the intelligence of your viewers who know perfectly well
which channel they are watching and what is coming up next by pressing
the Info or EPG button on their remote control and stop trying to copy
commercial television.

YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE DOES NOT WANT DOGS POLLUTING THEIR SCREENS. If you
claim otherwise then produce the evidence that more people have written
in requesting DOGs to be placed on BBC3 programmes than have written in
asking for them to be removed. Produce the evidence that when asked the
simple question "do you want programmes including Drama, Comedy and Films
transmitted with DOGs on the screen or would you prefer the programmes to
be transmitted without DOGs" that they supported the former and not the
later. If you cannot produce the evidence and publish it then your claim
is clearly a BLATANT LIE!

If DOGs were about helping people to identify the channel they are
watching by branding them then why aren't they broadcast during
commercial breaks or during trailers for programmes on other channels
which confuse people into they are thinking that they have accidentally
tuned into a different channel from the one they picked from their EPG?

Why can't you make the DOG optional by using an MHEG overlay instead
which can be deactivated by pressing the Green button like the "press
red" overlays on News24?

If DOGs are the norm for youth programming then why aren't they placed on
the same programmes when they are released on DVD? I'll tell you why.
Because no one would buy them or rent them. Would you want DOGs placed
all over your favourite photographs and pictures of your wedding and your
children? Do your children want that? If not then why are they being
inflicted on viewers of BBC3?

Finally I noticed that the DOG was left out of yesterdays (12/3/2008)
BBC3 episode of Torchwood. I hope this will continued that way and was
not a mistake, otherwise I will not be watching it again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/
For grins, I complained to the BBC about the BBC Three DOG. Here's the
responses that I got.

----- begin insert -----

Dear Mr Dye

Thank you for your email regarding 'Gavin & Stacey' on BBC Three.

I was sorry to read that your enjoyment of the programme was affected by
BBC Three's Digital On-screen Graphic. I understand you feel that it is
distracting, unnecessary and are concerned about screen damage as a result
of it.

The BBC, in common with other broadcasters, has adopted a policy of
inserting Channel Identifiers in the top left-hand corner of the screen on
its dedicated digital channels. This is because, in the current
competitive multi-channel environment, we feel that such identifiers are
an aid to viewer navigation.

The position of the Channel Identifier has been set at the top left-hand
part of the picture; it would not be easy to place it elsewhere (at the
bottom, for example) due to the fact that it might clash with subtitles or
captions. The top left part of the screen rarely contains sensitive
material which one might obscure or interfere with.

This policy has evolved over the last couple of years and is applied in
what we believe is a flexible manner which best reflects the needs of the
majority of our audience - for example, we broadcast films without a DOG
on both BBC Three and BBC Four and additionally performance, comedy and
longer drama on BBC Four. This is a flexible application of our policy on
Channel Identifiers and not a reflection on the quality of individual
programmes and covers those programmes which we believe viewers tend to
watch for longer periods of time. This decision takes into account a wide
range of issues, balancing all the relevant factors in what we judge to be
the best interest of the majority of licence fee payers.

The re-vamp of BBC Three gave us the opportunity to refresh our image. Our
logo had not been changed since the channel's launch five years ago. The
logo and branding changes were part of a number of big changes to the
channel. Our BBC logos work to make sure our channels and services stand
out among media brands and are appealing to their target audiences on TV
and online.

The colour pink was chosen because it is warm, vibrant and an alive colour
to match the channel's image. The logo was then reduced to 70%
transparency, which was one of the levels previously used by BBC Three.
This level was agreed after consultations with BBC TV operations, as we
are aware of issues of screen burn to some sets caused by solid logos. The
BBC has also sought advice about this from manufacturers, and the clear
view from the industry is in normal use, screen-burn is not expected to be
a problem. Where it could possibly occur, the viewer can take avoiding
action. The advice given by one manufacturer in a TV manual expresses the
situation well, and is quoted with their permission:

"If still picture cannot be avoided, reduce the brightness and contrast
levels of the picture to minimise any damage that might occur."

We do value feedback of this kind as it is a useful part of the monitoring
process we constantly undertake and I would like to assure you Mr Dye that
we have registered your complaint on our audience log. This is the
internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all
programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC, and also
their senior management. It ensures that your points, and all other
comments we receive, are circulated and considered across the BBC.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact the BBC.

Regards

Barry Graham
BBC Complaints

----- end insert -----

In other words, and as I'd largely already surmised before receiving the
reply, a pretty standard response making it quite clear that regardless of
what Joe Public might think, the DOG is staying - like it or lump it.

There's no getting away from the fact that this is a pretty intrusive DOG,
both by colour and position on-screen. Clearly, those drones at the Beeb
charged with making BBC Three look as much like E4 as possible aren't
going to listen to us licence payers, so you have to take view as to
whether you can tolerate the DOGs whilst watching the channel. For my
part, the only thing that I've watched on the channel for some time is the
new Gavin and Stacey series. I can't be arsed to wait for it to surface on
DVD just to avoid the DOG (why pay twice, after all) although I suppose I
could wait for it to appear on DOGless BBC2 at some point. Life is too
short however, but I certainly won't be going out of my way to look at BBC
Three for general entertainment (read: something to watch whilst eating my
dinner) whilst the DOG persists. Nice one, BBC.


Clem

Perhaps we should all start complaining about the DOGs? Did you e-mail the
beeb or snail mail them by the way? If e-mail please give us the addy?

Baz