Need help troubleshooting Series 2 TiVo

On Mar 14, 7:27*am, "Peter Bogiatzidis" wrote:
Yes, the fan is working.

Fan working or not is irrelevant.

If I remember your Tivo, it has an open frame power supply and
provides only two voltages; +5 and +12 VDC. Anything else (ie
temperature sensor) can report ambiguous errors if power supply
voltages are erroneous. Measure voltages with everything connected
using a 3.5 digit multimeter. No way around this necessary
measurement. Best place to measure might be on the disk drive
connector. Voltage must exceed 4.87 and 11.7. If yes, only then
move on to other potential suspects.

No worthwhile diagnosis can occur until those voltages are
confirmed.

In article , w_tom wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:27=A0am, "Peter Bogiatzidis" wrote:
Yes, the fan is working.

Fan working or not is irrelevant.


Its not irrevelant if the fan is not spinning and causing lockups due to heat
issues.

If I remember your Tivo, it has an open frame power supply and
provides only two voltages; +5 and +12 VDC. Anything else (ie
temperature sensor) can report ambiguous errors if power supply
voltages are erroneous. Measure voltages with everything connected
using a 3.5 digit multimeter. No way around this necessary
measurement. Best place to measure might be on the disk drive
connector. Voltage must exceed 4.87 and 11.7. If yes, only then
move on to other potential suspects.

No worthwhile diagnosis can occur until those voltages are
confirmed.

On Mar 15, 10:29*am, (GMAN) wrote:
Its not irrevelant if the fan is not spinning and causing lockups due to heat
issues.

Show me a Tivo part that is hot in a 70 degree F room with its cover
off. Heat does not exist. Tivo must work in a room above 100 degrees
F with cover installed and stuffed into a TV cabinet. A fan is
installed so that Tivo will even work there.

No Tivo part needs a fan when in a 70 degree F room with cover
removed. A more complex Tivo chip from Broadcom must operate even at
air temperatures of 160 degrees F - so hot as to burn skin. Other
parts work perfectly fine at even higher temperatures. Is a fan
needed? Yes if any part is so hot as to also burn skin. Obviously no
Tivo part is that hot. Heat is too often hyped by those who don't
read datasheets and never learned electronics. Numbers make it
obvious - a fan is not the OP's problem. Solution starts by measuring
voltages and my ignoring wild speculations about heat.

In article , w_tom wrote:
On Mar 15, 10:29=A0am, (GMAN) wrote:
Its not irrevelant if the fan is not spinning and causing lockups due to h=
eat
issues.

Show me a Tivo part that is hot in a 70 degree F room with its cover
off. Heat does not exist. Tivo must work in a room above 100 degrees
F with cover installed and stuffed into a TV cabinet. A fan is
installed so that Tivo will even work there.

Maybe the chipset will work fine but its hell on the hard drive.



No Tivo part needs a fan when in a 70 degree F room with cover
removed. A more complex Tivo chip from Broadcom must operate even at
air temperatures of 160 degrees F - so hot as to burn skin. Other
parts work perfectly fine at even higher temperatures. Is a fan
needed? Yes if any part is so hot as to also burn skin. Obviously no
Tivo part is that hot. Heat is too often hyped by those who don't
read datasheets and never learned electronics. Numbers make it
obvious - a fan is not the OP's problem. Solution starts by measuring
voltages and my ignoring wild speculations about heat.
The case fan, not a fan on any of the cpu's

Arrogant arent we?

Never learned electronics? Who the f#@k are you to say what I do or don't
know. I sure as hell must know something to hold an extra class liscence

I worked for DOD for 12 years doing mil-spec soldering on
performance amplifiers.

http://www.dod.com/

And 14 years at Spectra Symbol corp working on membrain switches and the
like.

http://www.spectrasymbol.com/

In article , w_tom wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:27=A0am, "Peter Bogiatzidis" wrote:
Yes, the fan is working.

Fan working or not is irrelevant.

If I remember your Tivo, it has an open frame power supply and
provides only two voltages; +5 and +12 VDC. Anything else (ie
temperature sensor) can report ambiguous errors if power supply
voltages are erroneous. Measure voltages with everything connected
using a 3.5 digit multimeter. No way around this necessary
measurement. Best place to measure might be on the disk drive
connector. Voltage must exceed 4.87 and 11.7. If yes, only then
move on to other potential suspects.

No worthwhile diagnosis can occur until those voltages are
confirmed.
OP QUOTE

"When I attempted to start the TiVo with the new drive installed, I saw the
"Powering Up" screen followed by the TiVo "a few minutes more" screen. With
that I thought that success was at hand. Wrong! The next screen that I saw
was the "overheating" screen. A subsequent reboot went to the same screen."

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:19:18 GMT, GMAN wrote:

In article
,
w_tom wrote:

On Mar 14, 7:27=A0am, "Peter Bogiatzidis" wrote:

Yes, the fan is working.

Fan working or not is irrelevant.

If I remember your Tivo, it has an open frame power supply
and provides only two voltages; +5 and +12 VDC. Anything else
(ie temperature sensor) can report ambiguous errors if power
supply voltages are erroneous. Measure voltages with everything
connected using a 3.5 digit multimeter. No way around this necessary
measurement. Best place to measure might be on the disk drive
connector. Voltage must exceed 4.87 and 11.7. If yes, only then move
on to other potential suspects.

No worthwhile diagnosis can occur until those voltages are
confirmed.

OP QUOTE

"When I attempted to start the TiVo with the new drive installed, I
saw the "Powering Up" screen followed by the TiVo "a few minutes more"
screen. With that I thought that success was at hand. Wrong! The next
screen that I saw was the "overheating" screen. A subsequent reboot
went to the same screen."

which pretty much sounds it's not a heat issue, unless it can build
enough to trip the fault in less than five minutes, possibly while the
thing is still sitting on the bench with the cover off.

--
Any research done on how to efficiently use computers has been long lost
in the mad rush to upgrade systems to do things that aren't needed by
people who don't understand what they are really supposed to do with them.
-- Graham Reed

On Mar 15, 5:13 pm, (GMAN) wrote:
Maybe the chipset will work fine but its hell on the hard drive.
The case fan, not a fan on any of the cpu's
Arrogant arent we?

Posted are nothing but facts. Those who don't learn facts fail to
first consult datasheets. When confronted by facts, they would only
see arrogance. One who learned before posting would know what a
perfectly ideal temperatures is for a disk drive. Up to 140 degree F.

Meanwhile, disk drive failure is not indicated. Error message is
about a problem that exists whether disk drive exists or is removed.

This problem and its analysis is not about a CPU fan. Discussed is a
chassis fan that is completly irrelevant to this problem. When Tivo
chassis is open in a 70 degree F room, then no fan is needed. One
with technical knowledge - who reads datasheets - would have known
this. Why is that fan there? So the same 'so robust' Tivo can also
work in a confined space while in a room over 100 degrees F.

What is causing a Tivo that is so cool to report excess
temperature? Among many reasons is bad power supply voltages. Bad
voltages mean sensor data errors. That problem can be identified in
but a minute and can be easily repaired. If a temperature sensor
circuit is defective, then locating that motherboard failure takes
much longer. Furthermore, most here could never fix that defect;
motherboard must be replaced.

First thing to verify - a simplest task that reports so much useful
information in less than a minute - is to measure DC voltages. A tech
that acutally solved problems at the component level would know this
from both training and experience. Again, no arrogence. Just blunt
and obvious fact. The OP starts an analysis by confirming voltages
are in spec.

I am only aware of two voltages in a Tivo - 5 and 12 volts. Others
with additional technical information should post if another voltage
(ie 3.3) also exists. OP's solution requires technical facts. If an
open chassis in a 70 degree romm reports excessive temperature,
failure is not due to excessive temperature.

Hello again,

Sorry for the delay in posting any follow-up information.

I tested the power supply and the voltages were 5.09 & 11.6. Although it was
mentioned here that the 12V voltage should exceed 11.7, I replaced the power
supply mostly due to the overheating message that I had been seeing shortly
after starting up the TiVo. From what I had read about that, I was under the
impression that the temp sensor is located on the power supply itself.

So, with a replacement (pulled from stock from Weaknees) power supply and a
drive that I had recently "baked" with InstantCake installed, I was able to
get my TiVo working again. It took a day or two to receive the update to the
9.0 software. At this point, I now had an 88 hour TiVo.

Curiosity about the 2 original drives in my TiVo prompted me to remove the
single drive and install them again. I did so and also replaced the
auxiliary fan that had come in the Weakness kit when I added the 2nd drive a
while back. It turned out that they worked. The only difficulty was that the
guide data was out of date, but that cleared up in a day or two. At this
point, I felt that I had a working TiVo again. If it were to fail, I could
always drop in the single drive again as a quick fix.

All was fine, until I went to turn on the TV the other day and saw a black
screen. At that point I rebooted the TiVo and it came back to life. Then a
day or so later, it happened again. So far, it has happened 3 times. No
onscreen error messages, just a black screen. Do I blame the "new" power
supply? Is this an indication of yet another failure about to happen?

I suppose that my next step is to test the voltages on the "new" power
supply and, if they are okay, then drop the single drive back into the unit
and see if it happens again. If not, that would seem to point the problem to
the 2 original drives. However, if it does happen again, then I suppose that
means that it may be a problem with the "new" power supply. Any other
suggestions or pointers?

Thanks again to all who have provided help. It is greatly appreciated.

Peter.

"Peter H. Coffin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:19:18 GMT, GMAN wrote:

In article
,
w_tom wrote:

On Mar 14, 7:27=A0am, "Peter Bogiatzidis" wrote:

Yes, the fan is working.

Fan working or not is irrelevant.

If I remember your Tivo, it has an open frame power supply
and provides only two voltages; +5 and +12 VDC. Anything else
(ie temperature sensor) can report ambiguous errors if power
supply voltages are erroneous. Measure voltages with everything
connected using a 3.5 digit multimeter. No way around this necessary
measurement. Best place to measure might be on the disk drive
connector. Voltage must exceed 4.87 and 11.7. If yes, only then move
on to other potential suspects.

No worthwhile diagnosis can occur until those voltages are
confirmed.

OP QUOTE

"When I attempted to start the TiVo with the new drive installed, I
saw the "Powering Up" screen followed by the TiVo "a few minutes more"
screen. With that I thought that success was at hand. Wrong! The next
screen that I saw was the "overheating" screen. A subsequent reboot
went to the same screen."

which pretty much sounds it's not a heat issue, unless it can build
enough to trip the fault in less than five minutes, possibly while the
thing is still sitting on the bench with the cover off.

--
Any research done on how to efficiently use computers has been long lost
in the mad rush to upgrade systems to do things that aren't needed by
people who don't understand what they are really supposed to do with them.
-- Graham Reed

On Mar 27, 10:50 am, "Peter Bogiatzidis" wrote:
...
I tested the power supply and the voltages were 5.09 & 11.6. Although it was
mentioned here that the 12V voltage should exceed 11.7, I replaced the power
supply mostly due to the overheating message that I had been seeing shortly
after starting up the TiVo. From what I had read about that, I was under the
impression that the temp sensor is located on the power supply itself.
...
All was fine, until I went to turn on the TV the other day and saw a black
screen. At that point I rebooted the TiVo and it came back to life. Then a
day or so later, it happened again. So far, it has happened 3 times. No
onscreen error messages, just a black screen. Do I blame the "new" power
supply? Is this an indication of yet another failure about to happen?

I suppose that my next step is to test the voltages on the "new" power
supply and, if they are okay, then drop the single drive back into the unit
and see if it happens again. If not, that would seem to point the problem to
the 2 original drives. However, if it does happen again, then I suppose that
means that it may be a problem with the "new" power supply. Any other
suggestions or pointers?

Selective use of heat may better identify the failed part. Nothing
on a Tivo board should exceed 140 degrees while at room temperature.
A hairdryer on highest heat can be one tool to isolate the problem.
An ice pack used to cool that selective component could also provide
useful information.

Temperature sensor should be on Tivo board. Do not use a finger to
find hot parts on a power supply since that supply will have 300 volt
charges on some parts and that voltage is sometimes even on heatsinks.

Yes, voltages on a new supply while under a full load is standard
procedure since even new supplies can have defective numbers either as
manufactured or due to problems created by the load.

Posted are nothing but facts. Those who don't learn facts fail to
first consult datasheets.

And you just post excessive blowhard nonsense.