TOT Mrs Thatcher

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ivan wrote:
Best first to do something about old age pensioners. On the increase
too. A drain on society - anyone who won't work for whatever reason.


You forget one inconvenient little fact though Dave, probably millions
of those OAPs have paid their full National Insurance stamp For 50
years, many have never been inside a hospital and have rarely if ever
claimed unemployment benefit or sickness.

And millions might have done all of those.

IMHO far, far more deserving
than new arrivals with extended families who get found housing and
benefits simply because the only two magic words of English they can
utter is 'political asylum'... Don't you think?

You really believe this, don't you.


Well, of course I do, maybe because over many decades as someone who's
worked in the field and come into contact with the proverbial lords to
dustmen, I've consequently developed a pretty jaundiced and cynical view of
what goes on the real world, as opposed to being supplied my information via
a TV screen by the Biased Broadcasting Corporation (although credit where
it's due it does - much too late imv - at long last appear to be waking up
to reality) perhaps a conducted tour around certain areas of the country
would open your eyes as well.

The link below is just one case relating to the problems of 12 local Somali
families, a seemingly escalating kind of situation which could doubtless be
replicated one way or another in other areas around the country.

Just out of pure interest you understand, I would like to know for how long
the names of these 12 families names were actually on the local council's
housing waiting list.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/politics_show/7020907.stm

When some clever listener attempted to shoot late night radio presenter Mike
Mendoza down in flames recently, by making the same assertion as yourself
"You really believe this, don't you ".
He replied that in his past capacity as a 'local councilor' he had had first
hand experience of councils being instructed by central government to keep
empty council properties in reserve for asylum seekers, despite there being
very pressing local needs.




--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ivan wrote:
IMHO far, far more deserving
than new arrivals with extended families who get found housing and
benefits simply because the only two magic words of English they can
utter is 'political asylum'... Don't you think?

You really believe this, don't you.

Millions of ordinary people believe it. Are they all wrong? The statement
might be an oversimplification but it reflects the resentment of the white
working class, who are ignored by politicians because the latter are scared
of being dubbed racist. What better way to whip up racial tension than to
let a significant section of society feel that their concerns will not be
addressed? If we are all going to get on in this country we need to square
up to certain issues, not brush them under the carpet.

Bill

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:35:15 -0000, "Bill Wright"
No they don't. I just want enough money to increase my standard of
living to the average level in the area I live. It wouldn't take
millions to do this.

Well of course there are some people with low aspirations. Each to his own I
suppose. It's lucky that some of us have high aspirations though or the
world would be in a bloody mess. I guess we'd all still be living in caves.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:35:15 -0000, "Bill Wright"
No they don't. I just want enough money to increase my standard of
living to the average level in the area I live. It wouldn't take
millions to do this.

Well of course there are some people with low aspirations. Each to his own I
suppose. It's lucky that some of us have high aspirations though or the
world would be in a bloody mess. I guess we'd all still be living in caves.

Bill



You seem to have some misguided notion that the only high aspiration
people can have is to get rich. But that would fit in nicely with your
love of Thatcher.

I'd tend to associate this notion of wanting to get rich with
bankers
share brokerage
criminals
drug dealers
.... (what a mess we would be in with out these people, as you put it)

None of whom I would particularly want to be associated with, never
mind aspire to. Get rich is such an open and poor choice of words, not
necessarily associated with hard work. While some people do indeed get
there wealth through hard work, many of those who get rich do so by
exploiting the hard work of others (or perhaps just stealing), many
people working in the City are in effect just creaming a litte money
from everyone else. Again not people I associate with hard work, but
certianly people who want to get rich.

Personally my aspirations are a little higher.

cheers

David

"DM" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
Well of course there are some people with low aspirations. Each to his
own I suppose. It's lucky that some of us have high aspirations though or
the world would be in a bloody mess. I guess we'd all still be living in
caves.

Bill

You seem to have some misguided notion that the only high aspiration
people can have is to get rich.
Far from it. People can aspire to succeed in different ways. Some of these
ways lead to wealth. This might be the main driver or it might be a
byproduct. Lots of aspirational people get rich by accident. It's very nice,
but it isn't the main driver, which could be a love of their art or science,
or even (paradoxically) a desire to help humanity.

But that would fit in nicely with your love of Thatcher.
Thatcher was an extreme, and in many ways she was wrong. But she was exactly
what this country needed at the time. She was nasty medicine but without it
the patient would have faded away. I remember the period well, and it was
astonishing how all sorts of people in all sorts of walks of life, and all
sorts of organisations, realised that the game was up and that skiving and
backsliding, and restrictive practices, were finished. It was a marvellous
breath of fresh air, and its effects lasted a long time. I think we'll be
due for another Thatch in few years. Wonder if we'll get one?


I'd tend to associate this notion of wanting to get rich with
bankers
share brokerage
criminals
drug dealers
I'll not speak from pre-conceived notions of people I've read about in the
papers, as you do. I associate the creation of wealth with people I know
personally, who work damned hard, who provide employment for many other
people, and whose contribution to the economy and the exchequer is enormous.
Without these people the rest of us would have a very poor standard of
living indeed. Incidentally, what's wrong with bankers and share dealers?
How else do you think major projects can be funded?

While some people do indeed get there wealth through hard work, many of
those who get rich do so by exploiting the hard work of others (or perhaps
just stealing)
So to you capitalism and theft are equal. Oh dear! We have a commie in our
midst!

,
many people working in the City are in effect just creaming a litte money
from everyone else.
Don't you know that everyone is creaming a little money from everyone else?
How else would you have it?

David, I think you need to move in different circles, see how the world
works, meet all these terrible capitalists and talk to them. You seem to
have a rather closed, parochial view.

Bill

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Ivan
wrote:
IMHO far, far more deserving than new arrivals with extended families
who get found housing and benefits simply because the only two magic
words of English they can utter is 'political asylum'... Don't you
think?

You really believe this, don't you.

Millions of ordinary people believe it. Are they all wrong? The
statement might be an oversimplification but it reflects the resentment
of the white working class, who are ignored by politicians because the
latter are scared of being dubbed racist.

Ignored? Why would politicians ignore such a large percentage of the
voting population?

What better way to whip up
racial tension than to let a significant section of society feel that
their concerns will not be addressed? If we are all going to get on in
this country we need to square up to certain issues, not brush them
under the carpet.

'Give' anything whatsoever to an 'asylum seeker' - even the very worst
flat on the most dismal sink estate - and there will be plenty who say
that 'money' should be spent on 'our' people. And for 'our' people read
themselves. Because the same will be said if it's 'given' to anyone they
can find a difference in. Tis human nature.

Bill

--
*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:19:55 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:35:15 -0000, "Bill Wright"
No they don't. I just want enough money to increase my standard of
living to the average level in the area I live. It wouldn't take
millions to do this.

Well of course there are some people with low aspirations. Each to his own I
suppose. It's lucky that some of us have high aspirations though or the
world would be in a bloody mess. I guess we'd all still be living in caves.

I feel sorry for you if you think the only guage of success is the
amount of money you have in your bank account.

M.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:19:55 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:35:15 -0000, "Bill Wright"
No they don't. I just want enough money to increase my standard of
living to the average level in the area I live. It wouldn't take
millions to do this.

Well of course there are some people with low aspirations. Each to his own
I
suppose. It's lucky that some of us have high aspirations though or the
world would be in a bloody mess. I guess we'd all still be living in
caves.

I feel sorry for you if you think the only guage of success is the
amount of money you have in your bank account.


2.7 million on incapacity benefit, 1.7 million people officially unemployed
plus £80,000,000,000 a year spent on NHS and that's just scratching the
surface of government spending... try hazarding a guess where the money
comes from to pay for it all?

M.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Millions of ordinary people believe it. Are they all wrong? The
statement might be an oversimplification but it reflects the resentment
of the white working class, who are ignored by politicians because the
latter are scared of being dubbed racist.

Ignored? Why would politicians ignore such a large percentage of the
voting population?

Because the latter are scared of being dubbed racist. PC is responsible for
much evil.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
"DM" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
Well of course there are some people with low aspirations. Each to his
own I suppose. It's lucky that some of us have high aspirations though or
the world would be in a bloody mess. I guess we'd all still be living in
caves.

Bill
You seem to have some misguided notion that the only high aspiration
people can have is to get rich.
Far from it. People can aspire to succeed in different ways. Some of these
ways lead to wealth. This might be the main driver or it might be a
byproduct. Lots of aspirational people get rich by accident. It's very nice,
but it isn't the main driver, which could be a love of their art or science,
or even (paradoxically) a desire to help humanity.

There you are you can be quite reasonable. Now why did you want to slate off
somebody as having low aspirations for not wanting to get rich.?


But that would fit in nicely with your love of Thatcher.
Thatcher was an extreme, and in many ways she was wrong. But she was exactly
what this country needed at the time. She was nasty medicine but without it
the patient would have faded away. I remember the period well, and it was
astonishing how all sorts of people in all sorts of walks of life, and all
sorts of organisations, realised that the game was up and that skiving and
backsliding, and restrictive practices, were finished. It was a marvellous
breath of fresh air, and its effects lasted a long time. I think we'll be
due for another Thatch in few years. Wonder if we'll get one?

I'd tend to associate this notion of wanting to get rich with
bankers
share brokerage
criminals
drug dealers
I'll not speak from pre-conceived notions of people I've read about in the
papers, as you do.

Hmmm Some warped thinking, and some wild idea that you know somehow have
insight into my mind.

I associate the creation of wealth with people I know
personally, who work damned hard, who provide employment for many other
people, and whose contribution to the economy and the exchequer is enormous.

Thats all good no problem with it at all.

Without these people the rest of us would have a very poor standard of
living indeed. Incidentally, what's wrong with bankers and share dealers?
How else do you think major projects can be funded?

Nothing wrong with them just not what I aspire to. Read don't guess or jump
to wild conclusion.

the point is that you are the one who slates someone who doesn't want to get
rich as having low aspirations


While some people do indeed get there wealth through hard work, many of
those who get rich do so by exploiting the hard work of others (or perhaps
just stealing)
So to you capitalism and theft are equal. Oh dear! We have a commie in our
midst!

Not at all- just your extreme interpretation to my extreme example
I was representing extremes to your "get rich " is good philosophy. Some
people do this through hard work, some people attempt to do it by theft.

They both share the same aspiration that your admire so much


,
many people working in the City are in effect just creaming a litte money
from everyone else.
Don't you know that everyone is creaming a little money from everyone else?
How else would you have it?

David, I think you need to move in different circles, see how the world
works, meet all these terrible capitalists and talk to them. You seem to
have a rather closed, parochial view.

Bill

I often move in circles with these people, and as with all walks of life
some of them are very nice people, some work hard, some are *******s, and a
few are crooks.
Nothing wrong with capitalism, but there is some often something wrong with
people whose sole aspiration to get rich

You seem to be the one jumping to conclusions, and reading into what has
said to suit. Pretty much every poster likes to take the absolute extreme
interpretation of what is written and warp it uphold there own side of the
argument, as is evident here.

The point was simple, but perhaps difficult for you to grasp through the
whole post. Your previous post was the one that suggested the high
aspiration you considered most was simply to get rich.


cheers

David