DVD Upconversion:Noticeable difference in picture? or sellinggimmick?

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 06:34:22 +0000 (UTC),
(Alan) wrote:

In article writes:
What are you talking about? The TV only displays the signal sent to
it. When I press the "info" button it shows the input resolution.
With dish and s video it shows 480 with component dvd it says 480.
With OTA its 720p or 1080i. The upconconvert dvd shows 1080 or 720.
This is a plasma hdtv. There is no "automatic" conversion on any hdtv
I've seen and used- Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic- they show what goes in
and that's it!

You clearly do not understand.

The signal on DVD is 480i. You can watch it by:

+----------------+
+----------------+ | |
| upconverting | | HD TV set |
| DVD Player |----1080 signal----| |
+----------------+ +----------------+
Set shows 1080, because that
is what it was fed.

or


+----------------+
+----------------+ | |
| standard | | HD TV set |
| DVD Player |----480i signal----| |
+----------------+ +----------------+
Set shows 480, because that
is what it was fed.


In the first case the upconversion from 480 was done in the
DVD player, in the second case, the upconversion was done in the
TV.

In *BOTH* cases the orignal signal is 480i, because that is what is
on he DVD.


The plasma set has a fixed number of pixels on the screen. If the
signal sent doesn't match, it silently converts it to match -- automatically.

Alan

And we can clearify that:
* The wording "show" in this context refers only to the information
text displayed on (some) TV:s.
* The wording "upconversion" only means that more pixels are
calculated from the available pixels (plus a possible
interlaced-progressive conversion using motion adaptive/tracking
filterring). Where this is done does not change the principles, but
the algorithms varies between different models (both external and
internal).

Like I said; Use the combination that performs the best but it is not
given that scaling already in the DVD-player will give the best
result.
/Jan

lbbss wrote:
I have a 42 plasma, so I was wondering if I should buy a upconversion
DVD player. Will I actually notice the difference or is it just a
selling gimmick.

Chances are you will notice a difference. Whether or not that
difference is really better and worth spending money on is anyone's
guess. Welcome to the HD/SD-dvd roulette wheel (see below).


Any samples on the web showing the difference, or
would that not be possible to do, we all have different type of
monitors/ lcd.
Thanks.

We all have different monitors and dvd players, but you seem interested
in just getting a "feel" for the kind of effect upconversion can produce
given a standard 480i dvd source.

The only setup I saw trying to show this difference was at my local Best
Buy. They had a hdtv showing a split-screen movie. One side was
upconverted, the other was not. The upconverted side (of the same
movie) had a bland smoothness to it. "Sky Captain and the World of
Tomorrow" captures this effect rather nicely.

- = - = -

I recently purchased a 40" LCD hdtv. I also have 4 standard DVD
players. Over the course of several days, I hooked up various players
and tried different settings.

Up to that point, my reference standard for dvd playback was my big
analog CRT tv set. I also have HD movies on my PC which I can view on
the 40" LCD TV, and 1080i cable shows to compare against.

I discovered an amazing synergy between my Pioneer DVD player and the
HDTV. Standard DVD playback looks really good using this combination of
hardware (the Pioneer is set for 480-progressive output).

No upconversion necessary for me at this point if it involves an outlay
of money. Given a chance to use a freebie test of upconversion, I am
interested. Anyone?

winf

wrote in message
...
What are you talking about? The TV only displays the signal sent to
it. When I press the "info" button it shows the input resolution.
With dish and s video it shows 480 with component dvd it says 480.
With OTA its 720p or 1080i. The upconconvert dvd shows 1080 or 720.
This is a plasma hdtv. There is no "automatic" conversion on any hdtv
I've seen and used- Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic- they show what goes in
and that's it!



so explain how a 480 resolution tv broadcast or dvd manages to fill your tv
that is a higher resolution?
why doesnt it sit in the middle of your screen surrounded by all that spare
unused resoulution.

the answer is of course that you are wrong.
and when you are wrong, no ammount of arguing will magically transform you
to being right,.


--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.

Idiot- I'm talking quality not quantity. The 480 "fills" the screen
but it's not as clear as 1080. The whole discussion was about
upconversion DVD players and quality- not size. Try a comprehension
class.


On Mar 1, 4:26*pm, "the dog from that film you saw"
wrote:
wrote in message

...
What are you talking about? *The TV only displays the signal sent to
it. *When I press the "info" button it shows the input resolution.
With dish and s video it shows 480 *with component dvd it says 480.
With OTA its 720p or 1080i. *The upconconvert dvd shows 1080 or 720.
This is a plasma hdtv. *There is no "automatic" conversion on any hdtv
I've seen and used- Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic- they show what goes in
and that's it!

so explain how a 480 resolution tv broadcast or dvd manages to fill your tv
that is a higher resolution?
why doesnt it sit in the middle of your screen surrounded by all that spare
unused resoulution.

the answer is of course that you are wrong.
and when you are wrong, no ammount of arguing will magically transform you
to being right,.

--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.

wrote in message
...
Idiot- I'm talking quality not quantity. The 480 "fills" the screen
but it's not as clear as 1080. The whole discussion was about
upconversion DVD players and quality- not size. Try a comprehension
class.




still wrong.
what magic do you actually think your upscaling dvd player is doing? - those
discs only have so much picture info on them - your player may upscale them
but it's not adding any extra info - its just scaling - which is what
your tv does anyway.


--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:28:56 -0700, Winfield
wrote:

lbbss wrote:
I have a 42 plasma, so I was wondering if I should buy a upconversion
DVD player. Will I actually notice the difference or is it just a
selling gimmick.

Chances are you will notice a difference. Whether or not that
difference is really better and worth spending money on is anyone's
guess. Welcome to the HD/SD-dvd roulette wheel (see below).


Any samples on the web showing the difference, or
would that not be possible to do, we all have different type of
monitors/ lcd.
Thanks.

We all have different monitors and dvd players, but you seem interested
in just getting a "feel" for the kind of effect upconversion can produce
given a standard 480i dvd source.

The only setup I saw trying to show this difference was at my local Best
Buy. They had a hdtv showing a split-screen movie. One side was
upconverted, the other was not. The upconverted side (of the same
movie) had a bland smoothness to it. "Sky Captain and the World of
Tomorrow" captures this effect rather nicely.

It sounds like you are describing one of those demonstrations that aim
to show the increased clarity with HD vs SD. The original source is in
high resolution.
This does not show what difference an external upscaling (in the DVD
player) would give on DVD material comparing to let the TV do the
upscaling.
Differences from these two scenarios can not be desplayed on a split
screen. You need two identical TV:s (to show it side by side).
/Jan

wrote in message
...
Wrong buddy- Thr conventional dvd player is only sending 480 to tv.
The upconverted is sending 1080. Which has more detail- the 1080 of
course. We're not talking "scaling" there is a noticeable increase
in picture quality



if the dvd is only storing 480 lines of info how do you think the dvd player
is turning that into 1080 ? - where exactly is this 'extra detail' coming
from?



--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.

Wrong buddy- Thr conventional dvd player is only sending 480 to tv.
The upconverted is sending 1080. Which has more detail- the 1080 of
course. We're not talking "scaling" there is a noticeable increase
in picture quality

On Mar 2, 3:32*am, "the dog from that film you saw"
wrote:
wrote in message

...
Idiot- I'm talking quality not quantity. * The 480 "fills" the screen
but it's not as clear as 1080. *The whole discussion was about
upconversion DVD players and quality- not size. *Try a comprehension
class.

still wrong.
what magic do you actually think your upscaling dvd player is doing? - those
discs only have so much picture info on them - your player may upscale them
but it's not adding any extra info *- its just scaling * - which is what
your tv does anyway.

--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.

the dog from that film you saw wrote:
wrote in message
...
Wrong buddy- Thr conventional dvd player is only sending 480 to tv.
The upconverted is sending 1080. Which has more detail- the 1080 of
course. We're not talking "scaling" there is a noticeable increase
in picture quality



if the dvd is only storing 480 lines of info how do you think the dvd player
is turning that into 1080 ? - where exactly is this 'extra detail' coming
from?





It's coming from interpolating the adjacent pixel information, and using
that to fill things in. This is clearly explained in a number of places.

Google for "pixel interpolation upconvert" and learn grasshopper.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

"Jer" wrote in message
...
the dog from that film you saw wrote:
wrote in message
...
Wrong buddy- Thr conventional dvd player is only sending 480 to tv.
The upconverted is sending 1080. Which has more detail- the 1080 of
course. We're not talking "scaling" there is a noticeable increase
in picture quality



if the dvd is only storing 480 lines of info how do you think the dvd
player is turning that into 1080 ? - where exactly is this 'extra detail'
coming from?





It's coming from interpolating the adjacent pixel information, and using
that to fill things in. This is clearly explained in a number of places.

Google for "pixel interpolation upconvert" and learn grasshopper.



the end result though is there's no extra picture info - which is what the
original poster was claiming.



--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.