Harsh, "aliased" sound with digital TV converter box.

crossposts noted

Doc wrote:
I just picked up an Insignia NS-DXA1 digital converter box at Best
Buy. The picture comes in clear but on some channels, I've noticed
what I'd call an aliasing artifact in the sound - overly shrill and
harsh on the highs. It seems to be more prevalent on certain
channels.

Is this an issue with this particular model/brand or a common problem?
Anything that can be done about it?

Thanks

Yeah, I've been there with that "aliasing
artifact." Advice: Don't necessarily throw
rocks at the Insignia Box.

Rule of thumb for me: Two channels derived from
OTA seems to work well. Two-channels derived
from whatever is on cable might be harsh (but
not always).

I've had this sound problem with both our
'digital SD' cable box (SA 2100) and with
translation of 5.1 sound into two-channel sound
by our HD box (SA 4240). (Haven't sprung for a
receiver yet as we are in 'technology overload'
around here.)

There are probably better ways of connecting the
4240 to our HDTV but that's way down my list of
things-to-do.

(As an aside, here's Rule #2 for Home
Technology: Do not buy identical Harmony
remotes for two separate systems, then fail to
label them and write down the login's and
passwords for the online profiles.)

'Harsh' was definitely noticeable during the
ProBowl game. We ran sets in three rooms.

One was feeding a R-L signal from the Cox 4240
into our projection HDTV--harsh. When I
switched the HDTV to OTA and let the HDTV
convert the broadcast sound into it's own
"surround-sound" the sound was fine (this HDTV
would probably be classified as a 3.1 with some
screwball, Bose-like, phase shifting to 'fill
the room.')

In another room, Cox's 2100 box was converting
cable's digital (SD) signal into 480i and
two-channel 'stereo' for an older CRT set. That
set also sounded "harsh." (I tend to blame Cox
cable for something it was doing with the Fox
signal.)

In a third room, we had an older EDTV plasma
running from a Samsung 451 tuner, OTA (bunny
ears) with R-L audio (being decoded from
whatever the local Fox station was putting out
on its DTV signal) -- that one sounded clean.

Things will probably be better a year from now.
Meanwhile, keep a cooler of cold beer near the
TV and use it as needed to take the edge off the
sound. {;-)

--
pj

On Feb 21, 4:57*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:


For me, the lack of anything but a simple coax connector for video is a
stopper. Lots of people have TV sets with S-video and component video
inputs, that would give a better picture.


Actually, it also has composite jacks. I assume it's oriented toward
those like myself who have analog tv's and no cable. Mine has
composite jacks but some older sets don't. I would imagine there are
few people with a 16:9 High-def tv running off rabbit ears. I would
assume they mostly have cable or whatever. Don't most of the newer
16:9's have tuners built in?

Something that's not clear to me, some of the stations specify "HD"
but can you get a high-def image over the air or do you have to have
cable, satellite etc? I realize it's not applicable to an analog tv in
any case.

However, I'm struck by how much better the image is even on this cheap
tv than I ever saw with even the strongest analog station in the area.

"G-squared" wrote in message


On Feb 21, 7:58 am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: For me, the lack of anything but a simple
coax connector for video is a stopper. Lots of
people have TV sets with S-video and component
video inputs, that would give a better picture.
Proof?

Are you saying that you can't tell the difference in
picture quality betwen
a good TV running off of a plain old baseband coax
output, and CV, where the
source material is first rate HDTV?

Depending on the quality of the Y/C separator in the set,
the difference could be very subtle.

CV (YUV) from sources from other than a NTSC TV signal need not pass through
a Y/C separator.

The NTSC Y/C separator inside the TV set can't possibly have as much
bandwidth of a good quality CV decoder driven by a first rate HDTV signal.
Even just S-Video can have more bandwidth than a NTSC signal can handle.

As far as the source being HD, you're converting it back to NTSC.

CV need not be downconverted to NTSC for analog TVs that can properly handle
CV. I don't know why one would do such a thing unless there was some NTSC
stumbling block in the signal path.

If you had a really good feed before, how could you tell a difference?

The really good feed can come from a higher bandwidth source than mere NTSC.

The best source I ever saw on the old 35" set was the
2003 Rose Parade on analog OTA KTLA down converted from
the HD feed.

The old 35" set probably didn't have YUV inputs.

"David Grant" wrote in message
...

"Doc" wrote in message
...
I just picked up an Insignia NS-DXA1 digital converter box at Best
Buy. The picture comes in clear but on some channels, I've noticed
what I'd call an aliasing artifact in the sound - overly shrill and
harsh on the highs. It seems to be more prevalent on certain
channels.

Is this an issue with this particular model/brand or a common problem?
Anything that can be done about it?

Thanks

Need to know more about the rest of the system... what are you interfacing
with? Are you using the digital output, and if so, into what?
=============================
That box has NO digital output!

"Doc" wrote in message
...
On Feb 20, 1:15 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:


I noticed some mixed reviews of the device at the BB web site.

IMO, it is low-featured and under-specified.


I'll have to check out the BB site. I got it because I happened to be
in the store. By "under-specified" what are you referring to?

============================
See my review on the site.
The unit is one of the higher priced and has NO digital audio out
and it has NO S-Video out!
===============================

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s21
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Doc" wrote in message

On Feb 20, 1:15 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I noticed some mixed reviews of the device at the BB
web site.

IMO, it is low-featured and under-specified.
I'll have to check out the BB site. I got it because I
happened to be in the store. By "under-specified" what
are you referring to?
The only specs for it that I can find are like the
dimensions of its case, and other equally obvious stuff.

For me, the lack of anything but a simple coax connector
for video is a stopper. Lots of people have TV sets with
S-video and component video inputs, that would give a
better picture.

Proof?

Are you saying that you can't tell the difference in picture quality betwen
a good TV running off of a plain old baseband coax output, and CV, where the
source material is first rate HDTV?


Not if they're ABX'd, no.

"trotsky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s22
Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s21
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Doc" wrote in message

On Feb 20, 1:15 pm, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I noticed some mixed reviews of the device at the BB
web site.

IMO, it is low-featured and under-specified.
I'll have to check out the BB site. I got it because I
happened to be in the store. By "under-specified" what
are you referring to?
The only specs for it that I can find are like the
dimensions of its case, and other equally obvious
stuff. For me, the lack of anything but a simple coax
connector for video is a stopper. Lots of people have
TV sets with S-video and component video inputs, that
would give a better picture.

Proof?

Are you saying that you can't tell the difference in
picture quality betwen a good TV running off of a plain
old baseband coax output, and CV, where the source
material is first rate HDTV?

Not if they're ABX'd, no.

We've done video ABX tests and had results that were pretty consistent with
the video state of the art. I take it that you have had some problems?

That box has NO digital output!


Hence my follow-up post over 24hours ago.

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:57:15 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:
For me, the lack of anything but a simple coax connector for video is a
stopper. Lots of people have TV sets with S-video and component video
inputs, that would give a better picture.

I don't think boxes with component outputs are eligible for the voucher
program.





Who said anything about a voucher program?

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

On Feb 21, 11:48*am, Doc wrote:
On Feb 21, 4:57*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

For me, the lack of anything but a simple coax connector for video is a
stopper. Lots of people have TV sets with S-video and component video
inputs, that would give a better picture.

Actually, it also has composite jacks. I assume it's oriented toward
those like myself who have analog tv's and no cable. Mine has
composite jacks but some older sets don't. *I would imagine there are
few people with a 16:9 High-def tv running off rabbit ears. I would
assume they mostly have cable or whatever. Don't most of the newer
16:9's have tuners built in?

Most do have ATSC/QAM tuners. But don't dismiss rabbit ears. }
Sure, the majority of people use some cable or satellite service, but
I'm one of the minority who only watches OTA. Since the switch to
digital broadcasts, all the broadcasts in my area are easier to
receive and *far* better quality.


Something that's not clear to me, some of the stations specify "HD"
but can you get a high-def image over the air or do you have to have
cable, satellite etc? I realize it's not applicable to an analog tv in
any case.

Did I miss something? Are you asking if HD broadcasts are available
over-the-air? Of course they are. All the networks and most of the
major independents broadcast quite a bit of HD these days. All it
takes is the appropriate antenna (for most people near the broadcast
towers, that could be rabbit ears - Don't forget, unless you live with
a particular reception problem, like a mountain in the way, or live in
an extreme fringe area, (over 40 miles away) digital broadcast are
usually much easier to receive than the analog broadcasts. ) and an
HDTV with an ATSC tuner (which is pretty much all of them for the last
2 years). Of course an external ATSC tuner can be used if needed.


However, I'm struck by how much better the image is even on this cheap
tv than I ever saw with even the strongest analog station in the area.

Certainly. } I use a DVD recorder with an ATSC tuner to feed my
remaining analog TV set. Even downconverted for a standard tube TV,
the improvement in quality is obvious except for the most perfect of
analog broadcasts.


Dan (Woj...)