Pixel policy

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
charles wrote:
In article ,
David Hearn wrote:

Never heard of a universal 30 day cooling off period (nor actually the
Trading Standards Act before). Can you provide more details?

to the beat of my knowledge that only applies to mail order purchases,
not
over the counter ones.

That would be the Distance Selling Regulations then, which is 7 working
days, not 30. And as you say - distance purchases only.

The Consumer Credit Act gives you 30 days to cancel a credit agreement so if
you buy something with a credit card you have the right to take if back at
any time before 30 days and claim a refund, ie. cancel the credit agreement.


D

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
Agamemnon wrote:
"tpow" wrote in message
...
"Agamemnon" wrote in message
. uk...
"Steve Thackery" wrote in message
...
My point it, does the supplier actually claim it's Class 1 compliant?
Or Class Anything compliant?
It makes no difference. If the class is not clearly mentioned the ISO
standard states that the screen is assumed to be Class 1.

Are you saying that all flat panel TVs MUST - in law - comply with
Class 1 unless stated otherwise?
According to the ISO standard all LCD screens are sold as Class 1
screens unless it is stated clearly and prominently that they are not.
The retailers cannot say afterwards, oh but the small print at the end
of the manual says its Class 2. You don't get to read the manual in the
shop.

I didn't think the ISO standard was legally mandated.
It legally mandated that if someone claims by omission that the screen
meets the ISO standard Class 1 and it does not because there are pixel
defects then they are misrepresenting what they are selling and are
breaking EU law. All flat panels are sold on condition they meet ISO
standards therefore unless you are told otherwise the standard states
that the screen is being sold as Class 1 compliant, ie. no defective
pixels or subpixels. This is on top of the Sale of Goods Act which
would classify a screen with defective pixels as being of unmerchanable
quality and not fit for purpose even if it is stated it is only Class 2
compliant, since a consumer is not expected to know what ISO standards
classifications mean. Under the distance selling act if you are not
satisfied with the screen and return it within 7 days even if the box
has been opened and the good have been used then you have the automatic
right to your money back. Under the Sale of Goods Act you have the
right to a replacement or your money back if the goods are defective or
are not fit for the purpose which they are sold, if you make a
complaint or return the goods with 30 days of purchase. The
manufacturers or retailers also have to guarantee the good for a
reasonable period of time. If a £3000 LCD screen breaks down after only
3 or even 5 years the must fix it or replace it or compensate you even
if they state the warranty is only for a year. You don't pay £3000 for
something that will only last a year.

SteveT

the suppliers terms and Conditions say,

Is the customer expected to have read all that?

NO!

According to the law the suppliers terms and conditions are not legally
binding on the customer since they were not freely negotiated with the
customer.

Yes they are. The Terms and Conditions are legally binding, as long as
they're made available at time of purchase (back of the invoice is
sufficient) and that they're not unfair (eg. poor balance of power etc).
If the terms and conditions must be negotiated with each and every
purchaser, then that could make for one very long transaction.

In effect though, the negotiation will go:

Retailer: "Do you accept our terms and conditions"
Customer: "No"
Retailer: "Okay, bye".

They're free to walk away from the transaction if they're unhappy with the
T&Cs.


If the customers doesn't get to see the temps and condition until after the
purchase because they are only printed on the receipt and the retailer then
clams the customer agreed to them then that's fraud. If the customers think
the terms and conditions are unreasonable then they can claim they were
making the purchase under duress. Unreasonable terms and conditions will not
stand up in court.


They do not state a class............

Then they are Class 1 according to the terms of the ISO standard and must
not contain any defective pixels, irrespective of how much the
manufactures want to whinge. Unless it is stated clearly on the product
in the show room that it is other than Class 1 the manufactures claims
will not stand up in court. You have the right to a product without
defects and if you don't like it you may return it within 30 days for a
refund.

Just because an ISO standard has been written, doesn't make that standard
mandatory.

As I said before, please can you provide evidence to support your
insistence that even if no mention of ISO 13406-2 is made (therefore no
claim that it meets that standard) - that the display must still meet ISO
13406-2.

READ WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID!

If the ISO 13406-2 standard is advertised and no mention is made of the
class, Class 1 the display is deemed to be compliant with Class 1 of the
standard. If a retailer sells you an ISO 13406-2 compliant screen and
doesn't tell you it is anything other than Class 1 and it has got dead or
lit pixels then they are committing fraud and have violated the Trades
Descriptions Act.


D

"Clem Dye" wrote in message
...

When I purchased my Sony 42-plasma some years ago it had a pixel stuck on
green towards the middle of the screen - you saw it all the time - you
couldn't miss it - on other colours it looked bright white (dunno why).

By itself it would be green, but mixed with red and/or blue, it would appear
white/yellow/cyan, which may all appear whitish on a small area.

Perhaps the manufacturer should ink over the stuck pixel so it looks black,
usually less noticeable.

--
Bart

READ WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID!

If the ISO 13406-2 standard is advertised and no mention is made of the
class, Class 1 the display is deemed to be compliant with Class 1 of the
standard. If a retailer sells you an ISO 13406-2 compliant screen and
doesn't tell you it is anything other than Class 1 and it has got dead or
lit pixels then they are committing fraud and have violated the Trades
Descriptions Act.

But Agamemnon, the display is NOT advertised as ISO 13406-2 compliant!!

Neither the advertising NOR the T&Cs mention ISO 13406-2. Therefore they
are NOT bound by it. There are various ISO standards for fish tank heaters,
but so long as the manufacturer does not claim compliance with them, they
don't have to comply.

Why are you having such trouble seeing this?

SteveT

The standard itself states that a product is Class 1 compliant unless
clearly stated otherwise.

No, no, no!! You are still doing it! What you're saying only applies IF
THE PRODUCT CLAIMS TO COMPLY WITH ISO 13406-2!

Look on the internet and read the retailers specifications pages. ISO
13406-2 is what they sated, but they don't mention a class. By definition
of the standard the screen is being represented as a Class 1 defect free
screen by omission of any other classification.

Right! If, for that particular TV, compliance with the ISO is claimed, then
you are absolutely right.

Remember, an ISO has NO standing in law per se. Indeed, an ISO has no
authority whatsoever. It only gets authority when it is made a legal
requirement (e.g. various safety-related ones), or if the supplier claims
compliance with it.

SteveT

In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:


The Consumer Credit Act gives you 30 days to cancel a credit agreement so
if you buy something with a credit card you have the right to take if
back at any time before 30 days and claim a refund, ie. cancel the
credit agreement.


No that Act has nothing to do with purchases by credit card. Your credit
agreement in the case of a card is not with the retailer.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 01:24:40 -0000, "Agamemnon"
wrote:

All flat panels are sold on condition they meet ISO standards

By who? There is no compulsory standard.

Pay an appropriate amount to a Chinaman and you could get screens
produced with 100% defective pixels. You could pay extra to get a CE
sticker. In this case the screen quite clearly doesn't meet any ISO
standards for dead pixels but it is fit for the purpose of displaying
a picture of Blackpool Lights..... in a power cut.





--

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...
In , "tpow"
wrote:
update,

1. Customer care, even though their web says they will respond within the
day, have NOT replied. That's annoying either way after spending £1000.
Not
even a FO :-(

3. I am thinking along the lines of keeping the one I have rather than get
a
replacement that just might have more in far worse positions.

You're legally entitled to a replacement, *or a refund* - and legally you
have the choice as to which.

4. I'll put this purchase down to a new experience for me and others.

If they try to fob you off go straight to Trading Standards. Stop wasting
time because things get harder after 30 days. If I'd spent £1000 and was
being illegally ripped off I'd be more than "annoyed" and "putting it down
to experience". This is not just "one of those things" that you should
shrug off. For goodness sake!


in reality Mike, I like the machine and would only get another of the same
(aesthetically it is very pleasing compared to others) and could or would
end up in the same boat............after 7 days (see my other
post)............with this or any make for that
matter.................buying sight unseen.

if I ask the supplier to change it I have to suffer return costs and the
possibility that they say its not in resalable condition when it is, then
they would probably send me one that THEY know has yet more iffy pixels but
still under the manufacturers acceptable quantity. It's a gamble that I am
not sure I would like to take.

The fact of the mater is, it does not mention this problem on the 7 page
brochure and sales DO NOT mention it when asked technical questions and you
probably would not see a display model in a shop with the problem. It is up
to the buyer who knows nothing about LCD's to find out..............if he
knows nothing then he does not ask. The buyer is in the dark until he reads
the manual or cares to fully read the supplies conditions which we all
rarely do.

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:55:57 -0000, "Agamemnon"
wrote:


"David Hearn" wrote in message
...

Never heard of a universal 30 day cooling off period (nor actually the

No. It's a 7 day cooling of period under the Distance Selling Act and a 30
day statutory right to return defective or unfit goods and demand a refund.
After 30 days you have the right to a reasonable period of warranty,
irrespective of what the manufacturer says.

The DSR does allow 7 working days send back the product (with some
exceptions). However there is no statutory 30 day period where you
can demand a refund. IIRC the law states something vague like "a
reasonable time" which is open to interpretation. Some retailers put
a period in their T&Cs, which may or may not be upheld if a case came
to court.

M.

On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:16:29 +0000, David Hearn
wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't purchase a large screen LCD TV without viewing it
in the shop with a black screen. Bright pixels are the worst for me.
This is why I'd never buy one online - at least not without a "no dead
pixel" policy (rare).

You could always return it under the Distance Selling Regulations.