Is it worth Paying for Calibration

On Jan 22, 12:31*pm, Peter A wrote:
In article e21034d8-d048-4a1c-9846-efb63f0995b1
@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com, says...

I've worked with telecine colorists who have transferred some of
the
movies and commercials that run nationally and I can tell you
those
professionals are GOOD at what they do and CAN see incredibly
minor
misadjustments the rest of us wouldn't notice - and do it
reliably.
I'm better than most but they put me to shame.

GG

Why would anyone want to pay for an adjustment that they cannot
notice?

--
Peter Aitken

I said most wouldn't notice but the colorists certainly do. I had one
guy tell me the level was wrong by 1/2 Ft-Lambert. Mind you, this was
not with any comparison video, just a flat white screen. I got out the
meter and he was indeed correct.

After seeing may peoples sets, I can assure you they wouldn't care but
the colorists want it to be RIGHT. Hollywood maintenance engineers are
paid quite well to take care of these seemingly minor issues. It
doesn't take many 'minor' problems to convert 'great' to 'mediocre'.

GG

"Peter A" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
From: Charles Tomaras
Newsgroups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv



"Peter A" wrote in message
...
In article e21034d8-d048-4a1c-9846-efb63f0995b1
@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com, says...
I've worked with telecine colorists who have transferred some of the
movies and commercials that run nationally and I can tell you those
professionals are GOOD at what they do and CAN see incredibly minor
misadjustments the rest of us wouldn't notice - and do it reliably.
I'm better than most but they put me to shame.

GG



Why would anyone want to pay for an adjustment that they cannot notice?

--
Peter Aitken

That wasn't his point...


But it was my point, which you have not addressed.

No, I believe I did address it. YOU don't notice it and YOU shouldn't pay.
Personally I like things to be as accurate as possible. When something looks
too red to me, I can say that my monitor is properly calibrated and the
source is too red. If it's not calibrated to something then I don't know
what I have. If it doesn't bother you, by all means do not pay. If you buy a
cheap $2000 LCD, do not pay. But...if you are spending big bucks on a top
end monitor or projector I feel it's worthwhile to have proper calibration.
I work as a sound mixer for film and video and I try to be discerning and
accurate. There is a place for professional calibration but I don't think
it's at your house!

It would seem I made a real debate here. I feel unless your
calabrating a giant TV for a bar, or something why bother? I wouldnt
notice the minor stuff



On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:41:10 -0500, Thumper
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:33:57 -0600, "Ch19" wrote:

Not worth it, This is for people that would NOT know the difference. Get
all the special equipment, disks, Professionals, and spend a few hours, to
adjust the contrast, and brightness, to a calibrated Source and the end


user most likely go back in a few days and adjust some of their controls
because Buba likes it a different way.

Not just Bubba. I like it a different way.
Thumper


Get 10 Professionals together and
get 10 different settings. Like I said a bunch of crap. $200.00 bucks to
adjust the brightness, WoW.
Its sad in this day and time, people think they need to pay someone to
wipe their ass for them.


"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...

"Anthony Lisanti" wrote in message
...


My friend just bought a TV from best buy. They talked him into
paying $200 for their geek squad to come and professionally calibrate
his TV. They told him they can access stuff normal users can't and
he should do it. This sounds like a crock to me. Any opinions?

There's no question that a professional calibrator with professional
equipment and a knowledge of the service menu codes and how to use the
service menus can do a much more accurate and thorough job of calibration
than can the average owner. I would first question the credentials and
methods of the Geek Squad calibrators. Geek Squad is a large outfit and
they may very well have a few ISF certified calibrators in each of their
divisions...I do not know.The service menus do provide more adjustment
than the user menus and while one can most likely find the codes to access
the service menus on the internet, there are many pitfalls within those
menus so they are not for the faint of heart and one should write down any
settings within those menus before they start screwing around. It helps to
set up a video camera on a tripod and tape your calibration efforts (the
numerical settings and menu names) as you perform them so you have a
reference to go back to if you screw something up. I can also say that
with a good test/calibration disc, most technically and visually
proficient owners can approximate a television to look much better than it
did on the showroom floor.

Of course you can tune up your car yourself if you like but most of us
with the disposable cash would rather pay a mechanic who has all the tools
and training.

Anthony Lisanti wrote:

My friend just bought a TV from best buy. They talked him into
paying $200 for their geek squad to come and professionally calibrate
his TV. They told him they can access stuff normal users can't and
he should do it. This sounds like a crock to me. Any opinions?



Thank you

Tony


ISF Certified...... YES.
"Geeking" with the brightness & contrast..... NO



--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
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Jim wrote:

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message
...


"Gravity" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


"Anthony Lisanti" wrote in message
...


My friend just bought a TV from best buy. They talked him into
paying $200 for their geek squad to come and professionally calibrate
his TV. They told him they can access stuff normal users can't and
he should do it. This sounds like a crock to me. Any opinions?



Thank you

Tony


He got ripped off.




Not if the tech really knows what he is doing. But since calibration
specialists that really do know what they are doing who actually have
experience on a given set and the equipment to do it right probably number
only in the dozens in the USA, the likelihood of the Geek Squad having
someone with very advanced skills is remote.

Leonard



Leonard or anyone...

Once someone shows up to do it, how would one know if that person REALLY
knows what they are doing or not?
Any tell tale signs or things to ask for that would clue one in?

thanks
Jim




First thing is look for an ISF Certification. Then maybe verify it with ISF
(Imaging Science Foundaton)

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

G-squared wrote:

On Jan 22, 5:33 am, "Ch19" wrote:
Not worth it, This is for people that would NOT know the
difference. Get
all the special equipment, disks, Professionals, and spend a few
hours, to
adjust the contrast, and brightness, to a calibrated Source and
the end
user most likely go back in a few days and adjust some of their
controls
because Buba likes it a different way. Get 10 Professionals
together and


get 10 different settings. Like I said a bunch of crap. $200.00 bucks to


adjust the brightness, WoW.
Its sad in this day and time, people think they need to pay
someone to
wipe their ass for them.

snip
I've worked with telecine colorists who have transferred some of the
movies and commercials that run nationally and I can tell you those
professionals are GOOD at what they do and CAN see incredibly minor
misadjustments the rest of us wouldn't notice - and do it reliably.
I'm better than most but they put me to shame.

GG


I'd like the confidence in knowing after that it's Bang On!
But that's just me...

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:40 -0800, "Charles Tomaras"
wrote:

They take all the disparate pieces of video from a production
that are supposed tolook like they belong together and make
very fine adjustments to them until they are cohesive.

A good example of why calibration can be of questionable value.

Starting off with video that differs widely from source to source; and
then introducing more variables in post production, one can hardly
claim the final product is anything other than what 'looks good' to a
subjective professional.

What's reality then? And how significant is watching it a few degrees
Kelvin off and a little brighter?

A_C

On Jan 25, 8:54*am, Agent_C wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:40 -0800, "Charles Tomaras"

wrote:
They take all the disparate pieces of video from a production
that are supposed tolook like they belong together and make
very fine adjustments to them until they are cohesive.

A good example of why calibration can be of questionable value.

Starting off with video that differs widely from source to source;
and
then introducing more variables in post production, one can hardly
claim the final product is anything other than what 'looks good' to
a
subjective professional.

What's reality then? And how significant is watching it a few
degrees
Kelvin off and a little brighter?

A_C

You've never worked in post production, have you? Post and telecine
don't put variables in, they take them out. If you saw how
meticulously the levels are monitored and corrected, you'd have a
different opinion. Your local TV station and the cable company might
be less exacting but the material coming to them is rarely wrong.
Local cable spots could be 'who knows what' but nobody watches them
anyway.

GG

On Jan 25, 8:54 am, Agent_C wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:40 -0800, "Charles Tomaras"

wrote:
They take all the disparate pieces of video from a production
that are supposed tolook like they belong together and make
very fine adjustments to them until they are cohesive.

A good example of why calibration can be of questionable value.

Starting off with video that differs widely from source to source;
and
then introducing more variables in post production, one can hardly
claim the final product is anything other than what 'looks good' to
a
subjective professional.

What's reality then? And how significant is watching it a few
degrees
Kelvin off and a little brighter?

A_C

Here's a good example of how a production shoot goes. You should a master
wide shot with all the actors in the first few hours of your shoot day
outdoors. The sun and clouds and light of course are always changing. Now
it's noon and you are shooting the medium and close up shots (the coverage)
of the scene that are going to be cut into the master. Now there is another
scene shot two days ago that the editors cut to that is supposed to be a
part of this section of the show. Well....all that stuff looks slightly
different because of light, cameras etc. The colorist/telecine person is
able to take those parts and make then cohesive so they look like they were
shot at the same time with the same lighting etc.

In article ,
Anthony Lisanti wrote:

My friend just bought a TV from best buy. They talked him into
paying $200 for their geek squad to come and professionally calibrate
his TV. They told him they can access stuff normal users can't and
he should do it. This sounds like a crock to me. Any opinions?

I wouldn't do it. You can buy a calibration CD for a lot less and end
up with something you will find totally satisfying. It is one of those
situations were you can get 80% of the effect for 20% of the cost.

The big question is whether you would even notice the extra 20% outside
of a custom, stand-alone viewing room. I watch TV in the family room.

--
Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA 724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]