Any free broadcast tv with digital?

and thus Camper inscribed ...
I meant that the SD had ghosting, which the HD doesn't have. Signal is
there or not. But yeah, the SD feed on my HDTV does magnify flaws.
I think you are confusing SD with analogue. Here in Australia SD is short
for Standard Definition and is a digital broadcast, therefore no ghosting.

Sure, I might. I had always thought of the SD feed as being the same as the analogue feed, in 4:3 format, while the HD feed as being digital feed in 16:9 format.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- poetry.dolphins-cove.com

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:48:06 +0000, Gordon Burditt wrote:

Wes is the guy who has done the most to turn me off of MythTV (pretty
much singlehandedly). He kept claiming that his setup could do A, B,
and C for under $X, (Here A might be "use a TV to watch shows", and B
might be "2 simultaneous recordings" and $X might be the price of the
latest Tivo offering) but when you try to pin him down, it turns out you
can't have A, B, and C *simultaneously* for $X, and he answered lots of
questions with "well, you've just got to know how to build systems" or
"you've just got to know how to shop". I come away feeling the whole
thing is a scam. And I'm not confident that I could make it work
without a LOT more development effort than I have time for.

Listen, I'm not your personal shopper. If you're too stupid to take
generalizations and purchase hardware based on that I really couldn't care
less. Yep. I remember you now from the Tivo group. And disregard my other
offer for free phone support if I offered it in the other post. And by the
way, all my claims were true, but you know that already. You and your
cohorts only comeback was you didn't want to buy it on sale, and instead
of my reply of just use pricewatch or yahoo shopping you wanted a link for
every part in the system. Not in this or your next lifetime. And if you
think it bothers me that you don't use mythtv, not in the least. It's you
that's missing out, not me. BTW, those same claims have been in the links
in my sigline for a couple of years. No one else has questioned there
validity. That's an invitation to all that want to all that want to
confirm this.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

~consul wrote:
and thus Camper inscribed ...

I meant that the SD had ghosting, which the HD doesn't have. Signal is
there or not. But yeah, the SD feed on my HDTV does magnify flaws.

I think you are confusing SD with analogue. Here in Australia SD is short
for Standard Definition and is a digital broadcast, therefore no ghosting.

Sure, I might. I had always thought of the SD feed as being the same as
the analogue feed, in 4:3 format, while the HD feed as being digital
feed in 16:9 format.

In my area, the cable company rents all-digital boxes. They convert
over-the-air NTSC analogue to 480i 4:3 digital. They use the same
channel positions (with one exception) as they do for the analogue
channels, which for the moment I can still tune in a television.

I couldn't figure out why the digital tuner in the tv was picking up a
digital simulcast in a random channel location of a broadcast channel.
At first I thought it was just a broadcast subchannel, but then I
realized it was a conversion made at the cable head end.

My tv has both an analogue and digital tuner, but the cable box only a
digital tuner.

Wes Newell wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:25:38 -0500, Bill R wrote:


Wes Newell wrote:


On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:29:08 -0800, G-squared wrote:



It appears that everybody is eligible but why would you want a
converter box for a VCR? A cheap ATSC tuner for your computer is so
much better than a VCR. If you have enough money for the computer to
write this on, you shouldn't need a government handout for TV. Or are
you entitled?


No, not everyone is eligible.



Wes, you got it wrong. EVERYONE is eligible on the first round of
coupons. See http://dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx


I know that, but it wouldn't let me apply on line if I checked the box
that I had a pay service. That was at 3AM Jan 1. I've asked for someone
to verify it will now, and no one has. Maybe they've fixed it by now. I
don't know. So the faq can everyone is eleigible all it wants. If you
can't apply for them it's meaningless.


I was able to apply on the web site, check the box that I had pay
service and get a coupon (I only applied for one) but it was a few days
after you applied and maybe, if there was a problem they fixed it (or
maybe the problem was just site overload, this IS the government we are
talking about).

With all the people applying so early I wonder if once we get our
coupons that there could be a shortage of boxes? I guess we will find
out in a few months.
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ and x in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Why doesn't Windows count?

Because (a) it's got DRM in it (Vista especially but not exclusively),
and (b) I know of no firewall for an antenna. But you *NEED* a
firewall for an antenna with Windows. (If nothing else, Sony will

I don't with my hauppauge usb HDTV. It works the same on my laptop w/
and w/o an internet connection.

I think you pretty much have to assume that if you put it into
Windows, Windows might try to execute it. (Microsoft Security
Bulletins make interesting reading.) That means anything that goes
in via network, keyboard, mouse, power cord, USB port, modem, Sony
battery, CD-ROM, DVD, floppy, etc. Your Hauppauge usb HDTV pretty
much sends in the transmitted digital stream as-is, without trying
to transform it, right? So something like intentionally malformed
MPEG4 will pass right through it? People trying to do DRM will
resort to such things.

try to use malicious broadcasts for copy-protection.) Also the
longstanding uptime bug that wouldn't let Windows stay up for more
than (what was it?) 37 days or so is not encouraging. Also, I don't
want to have to expose Windows to the Internet to get schedules.
Too many possibilities for viruses, even if the guy providing the
schedules has a clean system.

So you think that the folks who are broadcasting schedules OTA are also
going to be sending viruses out that way?

Not intentionally, but that doesn't mean they will avoid Sony
equipment in the transmitting station. And don't rule out pirate
TV stations. And it only takes one corrupt TV station to cause
trouble.

I suppose they could ... but I
don't think so.

I think it's already been demonstrated that DRM will use such methods.
Many times.

Wes is the guy who has done the most to turn me off of MythTV (pretty
much singlehandedly). He kept claiming that his setup could do A, B,
and C for under $X, (Here A might be "use a TV to watch shows", and B
might be "2 simultaneous recordings" and $X might be the price of the
latest Tivo offering) but when you try to pin him down, it turns out you
can't have A, B, and C *simultaneously* for $X, and he answered lots of
questions with "well, you've just got to know how to build systems" or
"you've just got to know how to shop". I come away feeling the whole
thing is a scam. And I'm not confident that I could make it work
without a LOT more development effort than I have time for.

Listen, I'm not your personal shopper. If you're too stupid to take
generalizations and purchase hardware based on that I really couldn't care
less.

If the generalization doesn't match up with any hardware as it is
sold (by brand name), it doesn't help much. I don't expect to be
able to find a list of chips used in every TV card out there to
match up to a list of chipsets supported. The manufacturers don't
advertise that info, and some want nondisclosure agreements. At
the time of that discussion, not even one brand name of a TV card
was mentioned on the mythtv website. And since there was mention
of quite a few cards that DON'T work, some rather similar to ones
that do, it's not nearly as simple as "get a 2GHz CPU or better
[Intel architecture, brand unspecified], and at least 500GB of disk
space [brand unspecified] for X hours of HDTV recording".

Yep. I remember you now from the Tivo group. And disregard my other
offer for free phone support if I offered it in the other post. And by the
way, all my claims were true, but you know that already. You and your

No, I still believe that in the discussion you recall, you claimed
a number of capabilities like watching on a TV but the price of the
system did not include a video card capable of providing outputs
like that.

cohorts only comeback was you didn't want to buy it on sale, and instead

Given the descriptions from that discussion and on the mythtv web
site, I couldn't find ANY TV card at ANY price that was indicated
as supported. Or even tested by one guy who said it worked. There
were plenty of TV cards for sale with names completely unlike
anything on the mythtv site. I had the impression I was looking
at a site describing long-discontinued merchandise (as far as the
TV cards went). Googling the TV card descriptions came up with
mythtv references and similar but no references to anyone selling
TV cards.

The site has gotten better now in terms of referencing hardware.
I have not re-checked recently to see if any of it is actually for
sale.

I didn't say anything about not wanting to buy on sale (although others
in that discussion did). But when you buy on sale, they are often
rather vague about just what model it is they are selling.

of my reply of just use pricewatch or yahoo shopping you wanted a link for
every part in the system. Not in this or your next lifetime. And if you
think it bothers me that you don't use mythtv, not in the least. It's you
that's missing out, not me. BTW, those same claims have been in the links
in my sigline for a couple of years. No one else has questioned there
validity.

I do have some fundamental disagreements with calculating the cost of
a system omitting parts of the cost based on "you would have paid for
that anyway for your desktop system" or "you would have paid for cable
anyway". But those are more issues of cost accounting.

That's an invitation to all that want to all that want to
confirm this.

On Jan 8, 5:35*pm, (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
Why doesn't Windows count?

Because (a) it's got DRM in it (Vista especially but not
exclusively),
and (b) I know of no firewall for an antenna. *But you *NEED* a
firewall for an antenna with Windows. *(If nothing else, Sony
will

I don't with my hauppauge usb HDTV. It works the same on my laptop
w/
and w/o an internet connection.

I think you pretty much have to assume that if you put it into
Windows, Windows might try to execute it. *(Microsoft Security
Bulletins make interesting reading.) That means anything that goes
in via network, keyboard, mouse, power cord, USB port, modem, Sony
battery, CD-ROM, DVD, floppy, etc. *Your Hauppauge usb HDTV pretty
much sends in the transmitted digital stream as-is, without trying
to transform it, right? *So something like intentionally malformed
MPEG4 will pass right through it? *People trying to do DRM will
resort to such things.

try to use malicious broadcasts for copy-protection.) *Also the
longstanding uptime bug that wouldn't let Windows stay up for
more
than (what was it?) 37 days or so is not encouraging. *Also, I
don't
want to have to expose Windows to the Internet to get schedules.
Too many possibilities for viruses, even if the guy providing
the
schedules has a clean system.

So you think that the folks who are broadcasting schedules OTA are
also
going to be sending viruses out that way?

Not intentionally, but that doesn't mean they will avoid Sony
equipment in the transmitting station. *And don't rule out pirate
TV stations. *And it only takes one corrupt TV station to cause
trouble.

I've worked for Sony broadcast and use Sony equipment at work. You
give them WAY too much credit for smarts. They can't even get the
$100,000+ SRW 5500 tape machine to properly lock the reference to
720p. You have to send it NTSC black in the high def reference input
to get it to work. You think those dummies could put stuff into the
data? AGAIN its video data NOT executable code.

I suppose they could ... but I
don't think so.

I think it's already been demonstrated that DRM will use such
methods.
Many times.

You _are_ a conspiracy guy. Video data is like audio data in that it's
DATA and not code. It isn't "object oriented programming" where the
code to handle the data is part of the overall block. You actually
have to execute malicious code to 'infect' the machine. As I said
before, even if a virus was embedded in the data stream it's not
treated as executable code.

Didn't the FCC say no broadcast flag a couple years back? What would
DRM do for that?

GG

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:21:55 -0500, Bill R wrote:

I was able to apply on the web site, check the box that I had pay
service and get a coupon (I only applied for one) but it was a few days
after you applied and maybe, if there was a problem they fixed it (or
maybe the problem was just site overload, this IS the government we are
talking about).

Thanks for the confirmation.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

"~consul" wrote in message
...
and thus Camper inscribed ...
I meant that the SD had ghosting, which the HD doesn't have. Signal is
there or not. But yeah, the SD feed on my HDTV does magnify flaws.
I think you are confusing SD with analogue. Here in Australia SD is
short for Standard Definition and is a digital broadcast, therefore no
ghosting.

Sure, I might. I had always thought of the SD feed as being the same as
the analogue feed, in 4:3 format, while the HD feed as being digital feed
in 16:9 format.

Here SD feed is 16:9 but of course not the quality of HD feed.

Camper wrote:

"~consul" wrote in message
...
and thus Camper inscribed ...
I meant that the SD had ghosting, which the HD doesn't have. Signal is
there or not. But yeah, the SD feed on my HDTV does magnify flaws.
I think you are confusing SD with analogue. Here in Australia SD is
short for Standard Definition and is a digital broadcast, therefore no
ghosting.

Sure, I might. I had always thought of the SD feed as being the same as
the analogue feed, in 4:3 format, while the HD feed as being digital feed
in 16:9 format.

Here SD feed is 16:9 but of course not the quality of HD feed.

That shouldn't be true of all programs.