Any free broadcast tv with digital?

Wes Newell wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:29:08 -0800, G-squared wrote:


It appears that everybody is eligible but why would you want a converter
box for a VCR? A cheap ATSC tuner for your computer is so much better
than a VCR. If you have enough money for the computer to write this on,
you shouldn't need a government handout for TV. Or are you entitled?


No, not everyone is eligible.


Wes, you got it wrong. EVERYONE is eligible on the first round of
coupons. See http://dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ and x in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Where are there cheap ATSC tuners with drivers that run on a
reasonably
stable operating system (Windows doesn't count)? =A0Also, I want to
watch
TV on a *TELEVISION SET*, not a computer monitor. =A0I've looked at
things
like MythTV, and found it extremely lacking in terms of supported
hardware
requirements (not that it didn't support stuff: =A0it didn't tell you
what
it supported in a way you could actually buy at a store).

Why doesn't Windows count?

Because (a) it's got DRM in it (Vista especially but not exclusively),
and (b) I know of no firewall for an antenna. But you *NEED* a
firewall for an antenna with Windows. (If nothing else, Sony will
try to use malicious broadcasts for copy-protection.) Also the
longstanding uptime bug that wouldn't let Windows stay up for more
than (what was it?) 37 days or so is not encouraging. Also, I don't
want to have to expose Windows to the Internet to get schedules.
Too many possibilities for viruses, even if the guy providing the
schedules has a clean system.

I'm NO big fan of Microslop but I just
looked up my 'blown shows' log. Over 350 record events this fall and
of the 17 faults, 6 were from computer errors, 10 were my screw ups
and 2 were because KCBS-DT was off air one Sunday night. 2 shows were
watched via internet, 1 has been recovered when it was rerun. 3
separate PCs running WinXP pro SP2 each with ATI HDTV Wonders. Mundane
machines all Athlon XPs.

If you saw my 'computer' monitor, it would be a 50" Samsung DLP with
an RF remote to run the TV tuner in the PC like a TiVo but for free,
it doesn't 'phone home' , doesn't encrypt the files so I can take them
in to work if somebody there missed that episode and of course it's
all HD. And, the DVD drive in the PC with the ATI DVD play software
does a very good job of up converting the 483i to what the TV wants.
You can also play files across the cat-5 LAN and shows being files,
they can be stored on USB drives for later. Got 3 500 gig USB drives
for $320 at Fry's. I've never had a 'blue screen of death' on that
machine since built in 11-04.

Wes will likely give you a list of MythTV compatible hardware since
he's the MythTV guru.

Wes is the guy who has done the most to turn me off of MythTV (pretty
much singlehandedly). He kept claiming that his setup could do A,
B, and C for under $X, (Here A might be "use a TV to watch shows",
and B might be "2 simultaneous recordings" and $X might be the price
of the latest Tivo offering) but when you try to pin him down, it
turns out you can't have A, B, and C *simultaneously* for $X, and
he answered lots of questions with "well, you've just got to know
how to build systems" or "you've just got to know how to shop". I
come away feeling the whole thing is a scam. And I'm not confident
that I could make it work without a LOT more development effort
than I have time for.

aemeijers wrote:
(snip)
Side rant- how come OTA stations are allowed to charge cable and satt
companies for the privelege of carrying their signal within their local
coverage area, as defined by the map on file with FCC? The cable and
satt companies are doing the locals a favor, putting more eyeballs in
front of their ads. Something seems bass-ackwards about the entire concept.

Cable subscribers don't want the inconvenience of switching between
cable (or satellite) and an antenna to watch the local channels. That
generates a demand from the subscribers for including local channels on
the cable system. That demand gives cable and satellite providers motive
to compensate local broadcasters for the right to include their channels
on their system.

wrote:

Side rant- how come OTA stations are allowed to charge cable and satt
companies for the privelege of carrying their signal within their local
coverage area, as defined by the map on file with FCC? The cable and
satt companies are doing the locals a favor, putting more eyeballs in
front of their ads. Something seems bass-ackwards about the entire concept.

They charge? I thought must-carry meant that cable providers had to
carry the local stations. Somehow that rule gave networks great clout
which got certain network-owned satelite stations onto basic cable.

On Jan 7, 5:48*pm, (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
Where are there cheap ATSC tuners with drivers that run on a
reasonably
stable operating system (Windows doesn't count)? =A0Also, I want to
watch
TV on a *TELEVISION SET*, not a computer monitor. =A0I've looked at
things
like MythTV, and found it extremely lacking in terms of supported
hardware
requirements (not that it didn't support stuff: =A0it didn't tell you
what
it supported in a way you could actually buy at a store).

Why doesn't Windows count?

Because (a) it's got DRM in it (Vista especially but not
exclusively),
and (b) I know of no firewall for an antenna. *But you *NEED* a
firewall for an antenna with Windows. *(If nothing else, Sony will
try to use malicious broadcasts for copy-protection.) *Also the
longstanding uptime bug that wouldn't let Windows stay up for more
than (what was it?) 37 days or so is not encouraging. *Also, I
don't
want to have to expose Windows to the Internet to get schedules.
Too many possibilities for viruses, even if the guy providing the
schedules has a clean system.

Firewall for OTA TV? Are you a conspiracy guy? After that resounding
success with the rootkits on CDs, you think Sony will somehow slip a
virus into TV via broadcasters? Definitely time to buy more books as
the only viruses they get will actually smell bad.

I am TRULY NOT worried about a firewall for the TV. The data coming
off air is not executable data so even if a virus byte sequence was in
the data, it's processed but not executed.

I'm a cheap guy so I don't leave computers on overnight as power in CA
is 25c / KWh so it piles up FAST. That's why you'll find CFLs in many
sockets and a Prius in the driveway. I couldn't give 2 hoots why
somebody thinks I have the Prius but it's done over 50 MPG for ALL the
gas for 23000 miles.


I'm NO big fan of Microslop but I just
looked up my 'blown shows' log. Over 350 record events this fall
and
of the 17 faults, 6 were from computer errors, 10 were my screw
ups
and 2 were because KCBS-DT was off air one Sunday night. 2 shows
were
watched via internet, 1 has been recovered when it was rerun. 3
separate PCs running WinXP pro SP2 each with ATI HDTV Wonders.
Mundane
machines all Athlon XPs.

Sorry I can't count. It was 9 operator errors not 10, 17 total.

If you saw my 'computer' monitor, it would be a 50" Samsung DLP
with
an RF remote to run the TV tuner in the PC like a TiVo but for
free,
it doesn't 'phone home' , doesn't encrypt the files so I can take
them
in to work if somebody there missed that episode and of course
it's
all HD. And, the DVD drive in the PC with the ATI DVD play
software
does a very good job of up converting the 483i to what the TV
wants.
You can also play files across the cat-5 LAN and shows being
files,
they can be stored on USB drives for later. Got 3 500 gig USB
drives
for $320 at Fry's. I've never had a 'blue screen of death' on that
machine since built in 11-04.
Wes will likely give you a list of MythTV compatible hardware
since
he's the MythTV guru.

Wes is the guy who has done the most to turn me off of MythTV
(pretty
much singlehandedly). *He kept claiming that his setup could do A,
B, and C for under $X, (Here A might be "use a TV to watch shows",
and B might be "2 simultaneous recordings" and $X might be the
price
of the latest Tivo offering) but when you try to pin him down, it
turns out you can't have A, B, and C *simultaneously* for $X, and
he answered lots of questions with "well, you've just got to know
how to build systems" or "you've just got to know how to shop". *I
come away feeling the whole thing is a scam. *And I'm not confident
that I could make it work without a LOT more development effort
than I have time for.

I fiddled a bit with Myth and didn't have much luck so I stayed with
what IS working. I CAN tell you that when I heard Bill Gates say (20+
years back) that the TV and PC would merge I thought "sure. When cows
fly.". Well, he was right and I was wrong (again) which explains the
Prius vs a Gulfstream.

GG

"Adam H. Kerman" wrote in
reenews.net:


They charge? I thought must-carry meant that cable providers had to
carry the local stations. Somehow that rule gave networks great clout
which got certain network-owned satelite stations onto basic cable.

There are two rules... "must-carry" and "retransmission consent". A TV
station can choose either of these paths when negotiating with a cable or
satellite company.

"Must carry" means exactly that. Any cable provider within a certain
portion of the station's coverage area must carry the station, without cost
or charge.

"Retransmission consent" means the TV station has to give permission to the
cable company to carry it's signal. The companies negotiate, sometimes for
cash, but more often for carriage of other cable channels owned by the same
company.

The rationale behind retransmission consent is that many people subscribe
to cable in order to view their local broadcast stations with a better
signal. The local stations add value to the cable system, and they should
be compensated just like any other program provider. I don't agree with
that rationale, but there you have it.

and thus Gordon Burditt inscribed ...
Why doesn't Windows count?

Because (a) it's got DRM in it (Vista especially but not exclusively),
and (b) I know of no firewall for an antenna. But you *NEED* a
firewall for an antenna with Windows. (If nothing else, Sony will

I don't with my hauppauge usb HDTV. It works the same on my laptop w/ and w/o an internet connection.

try to use malicious broadcasts for copy-protection.) Also the
longstanding uptime bug that wouldn't let Windows stay up for more
than (what was it?) 37 days or so is not encouraging. Also, I don't
want to have to expose Windows to the Internet to get schedules.
Too many possibilities for viruses, even if the guy providing the
schedules has a clean system.

So you think that the folks who are broadcasting schedules OTA are also going to be sending viruses out that way? I suppose they could ... but I don't think so.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- poetry.dolphins-cove.com

I meant that the SD had ghosting, which the HD doesn't have. Signal is
there or not. But yeah, the SD feed on my HDTV does magnify flaws.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at
the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- poetry.dolphins-cove.com

I think you are confusing SD with analogue. Here in Australia SD is short
for Standard Definition and is a digital broadcast, therefore no ghosting.

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:42:07 -0500, RobertVA wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:29:08 -0800, G-squared wrote:

It appears that everybody is eligible but why would you want a
converter box for a VCR? A cheap ATSC tuner for your computer is so
much better than a VCR. If you have enough money for the computer to
write this on, you shouldn't need a government handout for TV. Or are
you entitled?

No, not everyone is eligible. If have any pay TV service, you household
is not eligible, even if you have TV's without a tuner not connected to
them. Your household has to be free of any pay service to be eligible
for any coupons.

Crossposting removed.


Incorrect

Only coupons issued under the second funding package are limited to
households with no alternate signal sources. The first batch of funding
doesn't have the antenna reception exclusive limitation.

Well, it may be incorrect, but it would not let me apply for them when I
checked the box that I had a pay service. Maybe it was just a another
website screwup, but that's what i6t did at 3 Am Jan1. When i forst tried
at 1AM, it gave me a server error no matter what.:-)

I've asked for anyone to verify they can now apply with checking the box
having pay service and no one has verified it yet, 8 days later. So....



--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:25:38 -0500, Bill R wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:29:08 -0800, G-squared wrote:


It appears that everybody is eligible but why would you want a
converter box for a VCR? A cheap ATSC tuner for your computer is so
much better than a VCR. If you have enough money for the computer to
write this on, you shouldn't need a government handout for TV. Or are
you entitled?


No, not everyone is eligible.


Wes, you got it wrong. EVERYONE is eligible on the first round of
coupons. See http://dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx

I know that, but it wouldn't let me apply on line if I checked the box
that I had a pay service. That was at 3AM Jan 1. I've asked for someone
to verify it will now, and no one has. Maybe they've fixed it by now. I
don't know. So the faq can everyone is eleigible all it wants. If you
can't apply for them it's meaningless.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php