Any free broadcast tv with digital?

Dan Lanciani [email protected]*com wrote:

There's an interesting timing dilemma here. The coupons are good for
only 90 days, we'd like to get them before they run out, but we'd also
like to maximize product availability and selection. How many of the
approved boxes are currently available?

None.

and thus Adam H. Kerman inscribed ...
wrote:
and thus GMAN inscribed ...
Not true, they are required to include a remote.
Remote for what? The convertor box? I wouldn't think that it needs one,
its like just daisy chaining something to your tv. The channel changing
happens on your tv/remote, and the convertor just lets you additional
channels on the same tv/remote.
The box includes the necessary digital tuner to receive over the air channels.
The remote would operate the tuner.

No, I get that that is what people would use the remote for, to use the tuner. But what I was wondering is why is the tech needed for a separate remote? I had thought that the the tuner would work like this. On your normal tv, you click to local channel 2, and your tv goes to the source, the antenna. Now the tuner looks for your locale channel 2 digital feed, and passes that through to your tv.

I guess the way it is actually going to work is as if you had a really separated unit, like a VCR or DVR that you added to your entertainment system. It just seems like more work than it needed to do to work. I'm just trying to think for the lowest common denominator implementation.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- poetry.dolphins-cove.com

~consul wrote:
and thus Adam H. Kerman inscribed ...
wrote:
and thus GMAN inscribed ...

Not true, they are required to include a remote.

Remote for what? The convertor box? I wouldn't think that it needs one,
its like just daisy chaining something to your tv. The channel changing
happens on your tv/remote, and the convertor just lets you additional
channels on the same tv/remote.

The box includes the necessary digital tuner to receive over the
air channels. The remote would operate the tuner.

No, I get that that is what people would use the remote for, to use the
tuner. But what I was wondering is why is the tech needed for a
separate remote?

Even if every infrared remote receiver on a device were identical, each
manufacturer or type of product (or even sometimes model of product)
uses a different set of codes to send the command. The set-top box with
digital tuner and converter will be a lot newer than the tv, so its
remote couldn't possibly know the codes to send.

Even if it did, how would it instruct the digital tuner to tune to a
subchannel? For that, one has to enter a decimal point.

I had thought that the the tuner would work like this. On your normal
tv, you click to local channel 2, and your tv goes to the source,
the antenna.

If the new box is hooked up through the coaxial cable 75 ohm VHF antenna
jack on the back of the tv, then you'll need an A-B switch to choose the
antenna with the tv's tuner, or to receive output from the new box
(probably on channel 3).

Now the tuner looks for your locale channel 2 digital feed, and passes
that through to your tv.

I agree. That would be an extremely useful feature. Unfortunately, I've
never heard of a tv on the market with such circuitry to accomplish
that. If I can tune in the same channel from a variety of inputs, I'd
love to tell my tv that over-the-air Channel 2 is available via antenna,
or via cable channel N, or satelite channel M, and to choose whichever
source offers the strongest signal and not currently tuned to something
else or feeding a recording device. It would require a lot of effort on
the consumer's part to enter all that data into the tv's channel memory.

Probably not gonna happen...

I guess the way it is actually going to work is as if you had a really
separated unit, like a VCR or DVR that you added to your entertainment
system.

Yes.

"Adam H. Kerman" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Sal M. Onella wrote:

My goofiest ever multipath experience was on the Navy base in Vallejo,
CA.
There was one UHF TV station that absolutely would not come in unless my
roommate had his locker door half-open. Go figure.

It never occurred to me that dirty laundry placed strategically around
the room could improve reception.

No, no! He didn't have to tip it over -- just swing the door wide! ;-))

"Adam H. Kerman" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Sal M. Onella wrote:

snip
For $250 at a local retailer,
I'm pulling digital OTA off a roof antenna and displaying it in SD.
(The
box has a selector switch for the display type. I'm a "480i.")

Is your tv new enough to accept progressive input? Does the converter do
progressive output? If it's called ColorStream or as inputs for a
connection via composite video cables, it's progressive.

See if you notice a slight improvement at 480p.

The converter (Samsung SIR-T151) will output 480p but the Sony TV (KV35V35,
I think) , vintage mid-90's has no progressive inputs. I'm happy with its
picture but can see signs of aging, like small text that's marginally
readable -- hard to tell 6's from 8's on some of the scrolls at the bottom.
When it has a real maintenance problem, it's going away. (Yeah, I'm clever
enough to GIVE it a maintenance problem, just not evil enough.)

"Sal"

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:53:33 +0000, Dan Lanciani wrote:

In article [email protected],
(Wes Newell) writes: | On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:21:49 +0000, Tony Calguire
wrote: |
| From the FAQ on the dtv2009 site: |
| 7. Are all consumers eligible for the coupon program? |
| Yes, but supplies are limited. There are 22.25 million coupons
available | to all U.S. households. Once those coupons have been used,
there are an | additional 11.25 million coupons available only to
households that | solely receive their TV broadcasts over-the-air
using an antenna. | Households with TVs connected to cable, satellite
or other pay TV | service are not eligible for this second batch of
coupons. Consumers can | apply for coupons until March 31, 2009, or
until the funds are | exhausted.
|
| Has anyone check the first box in the app been able to apply for
coupons. | Thought I tried that and it said I wasn't eligible. Of course
this was on | Jan 1 about 3am. When I first tried at 1AM, I got a server
error from | them.:-)

There's an interesting timing dilemma here. The coupons are good for
only 90 days, we'd like to get them before they run out, but we'd also
like to maximize product availability and selection. How many of the
approved boxes are currently available?

None are available now. Even if you sign up today, your coupons will not
be issued til units are in stores which is supposed to be around 1 March.


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Wes Newell wrote:
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:29:08 -0800, G-squared wrote:

It appears that everybody is eligible but why would you want a converter
box for a VCR? A cheap ATSC tuner for your computer is so much better
than a VCR. If you have enough money for the computer to write this on,
you shouldn't need a government handout for TV. Or are you entitled?

No, not everyone is eligible. If have any pay TV service, you household is
not eligible, even if you have TV's without a tuner not connected to them.
Your household has to be free of any pay service to be eligible for any
coupons.

Crossposting removed.


Incorrect

Only coupons issued under the second funding package are limited to
households with no alternate signal sources. The first batch of funding
doesn't have the antenna reception exclusive limitation.

"Patrick Joseph Mc Namara" wrote in message
...

snip

I'm in an area where we can pick up
signals across the Lake Ontario. Sometimes they're strong and fairly
clear,
other times they barely come in. It depends much upon the weather over the
lake. I've only tried it with analogue so I don't know how good the
digital
would be.

Signal propagation is weird, at times. I never specifically tried for
really long-distance TV reception, but have experienced it. In Norfolk VA,
a VHF station came in well enough from Buffalo NY that we sat and watched a
movie. (Yes, good antenna/rotor on a mast) Other times, we had a hard time
with stations in Washington DC.

Because they both use the same set of frequencies, digital is not different
from analog, except that digital requires less power for equivalent
istance -- and that's one of the advantages cited for the change-over. It
has to do with the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR). Analog needs about 40 dB
SNR (subject to debate among experts) for a noise-free picture. Digital
will usually do nicely with 20 dB, often a bit less. I think the theory is
about 16.5 dB, which may not be realizable in the real world. All of which
means that if you can get a decent signal from city "A" on analog, their
digital equivalents (assuming full licensed power) will also work for you.

Not to turn this into a lecture, but if you have ghosts on your pictures
now, from nearby hills, buildings or the town water tower, your success with
digital is less certain. A better antenna often helps.

~consul wrote:
and thus GMAN inscribed ...
Presumably, the entry-level tuner boxes will NOT have remotes? So
even those of us with Satt, using the backup rooftop antenna to get
locals not carried, will have to actually walk across the room to
change channels? Oh, the horror!
aem sends...
Not true, they are required to include a remote.

Remote for what? The convertor box? I wouldn't think that it needs one,
its like just daisy chaining something to your tv. The channel changing
happens on your tv/remote, and the convertor just lets you additional
channels on the same tv/remote.

Converting a digital video stream to analog isn't a trivial process. It
would take a powerful and therefore EXPENSIVE computer to simultaneously
convert all the multiple sub channels available in most areas and
modulate all of them on separate analog closed circuit RF channels. Most
of the converters will only handle a single digital sub channel at a
time. The converter WILL need to have its own circuitry to change which
channel you want to watch.

Of course the requirement for the manufacturer to include a remote AND
its batteries to make the converter eligible for the federal coupon
program might be of some influence.

Presumably, the entry-level tuner boxes will NOT have remotes? So even
those of us with Satt, using the backup rooftop antenna to get locals
not carried, will have to actually walk across the room to change
channels? Oh, the horror!
aem sends...
Not true, they are required to include a remote.

Remote for what? The convertor box? I wouldn't think that it needs one,
its like just daisy chaining something to your tv. The channel changing
happens on your tv/remote, and the convertor just lets you additional
channels on the same tv/remote.

No, you need to change the channels on the converter box.

After the analog shutdown, and assuming a signal source of an
antenna, the only source of signal for the TV is the converter box,
either by a baseband video connection (e.g. RCA plugs, S-video,
component video) or by RF that the converter box provides for *ONE*
channel (probably you get a choice of analog channel 3 or analog
channel 4). Changing the channel on the TV gets you static.

A converter box does *NOT* convert a dozen or two digital stations
to analog simultaneously and put them together into an RF signal
so that an analog TV can select the channel. You could assemble
one with a dozen or so converter boxes and an equal number of RF
modulators, but it would be expensive and give poor signal quality.

If you have an old analog VCR or analog DVR, it used to be able to
change the channel on its own turner. It probably can't change the
channel on the converter box (unless it's got an IR blaster and the
right codes). You now have a time-recorder not a
time-and-channel-recorder. This sucks.