What they won't show you at video stores

"Thumper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:06:43 -0800, "Charles Tomaras"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:37:12 -0500, "Nick Danger"
wrote:


"Jack Bauer" wrote in message
...
Actual channels tuned in on the TV you want to buy!

I ask why and they say it would be just too hard, having to have all
those
signal splitters in the store. "Oh no, it just wouldn't work." So
apparently the technology to allow the customer to change the tuner to
actual channels is simply beyond us at this point in time? No, I
don't
think so, because 15 years ago you COULD go into a video store and see
live sports broadcasts, news, etc. right off the air.

But NOW they can't? After buying an LG HD set, I can see why they do
this. If you show the average customer what it's like to tune one of
these things, they may freak out and leave! All the channels are two
numbers with a dash in them. Example: 4-0, 4-1, 4-2, etc., where 4-0
is
channel 4 analog and the others are HD. Some stations (like the local
PBS
station) broadcast up to 9 things on different HD channels. This will
definitely confuse a 70-year grandpa! One station has a weather-only
broadcast; another just shows a picture of the local area on one of
their
digital channels.

The really big confusion comes when you run into something like
channel
117-81. Now, what the hell is THAT? Why is local channel 12 showing
up
there? Even I get lost with that one.

Yes, I read the manual. I suppose it will be less confusing when the
analog broadcasts go away.

You forgot the other shock that first-time viewers will get - having to
wait
several seconds each time they flip a channel. There's also the chance
they'll tune in an SD channel or something with warped stretchovision
and
then assume HD isn't all it's cracked up to be.

It isn't. I personally hate HDTV.
Just give me a plain old tv and I'm happy.

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the
aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be
forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If something is 4:3,
it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option to
stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD. If the
broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an expert
can find them.

Too much freedom for you? There are people who would rather stretch
tv land than watch it with bars. There's nothing wrong with giving
them that
\ choice.
Thumper

Just talking about reducing the complexity of watching a television set.
We're moving my 81 yo dad to a new retirement assisted living home and want
to get him a new HD set but I'll never be able to explain the concepts to
him in a way that he will understand it. His television will constantly be
showing the wrong aspect ratio I'm certain of that. I just think that it
should be a real conscious decision to change the aspect ratio and that
broadcasters and manufacture's should be required to do their best to make
the TV display proper geometry without a lot of intervention. People should
be given the concept that the new TV's can show both the old aspect ratios
and the new aspect ratios instead of just calling them widescreen. They are
all widescreen now and I don't believe that needs to be part of the
marketing pitch any more. I guess it needs to start with a youth movement
since video is now so prevalent in or society.....have an aspect ratio
demonstration in a math/geometry class so youngsters understand the concept
and how it works. Maybe also, televisions should come with two remotes, one
with big and limited numbers of buttons and a more advanced remote that
someone knowledgeable can use for finer adjustments and extra features.

"Dennis M" wrote in message
...
In article , Jack Bauer
wrote:

snip

the remote to get into digital mode. They refer you to the RCA website to
download a bigger manual (just to save a few trees?, I dunno); I go there

no. to make you bear the cost of printing it.

"Kimba W Lion" kimbawlion wrote in message
...
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the
aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be
forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If something is 4:3,
it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option to
stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD. If the
broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an expert
can find them.

I take it you haven't done much product design work since the collapse of
the Soviet Union

Bottom line...things need to be simpler for a good portion of our society.
There need to be remote controls that have volume, channel, on, off and
nothing more. There need to be cell phones with big buttons and no text
messaging or cameras.Why an HDTV remote needs to have 60 buttons on it is
beyond comprehension for most of the public. Does anyone really control
their VCR from their TV remote? Get all that **** off of there. I got a
basic cable box for my guest bedroom 19" TV and the remote for it is the
same remote as for the cable company HD DVR and they don't offer a different
remote. 60 buttons, three quarters of which are not applicable to the box
provided but that's what the cable company gives you.

It pains me to see people watching fat television not because that's the way
they wanted it but because they don't know any better and are afraid to
change anything. I'm the only person in my household who can turn a channel,
see that its an SD program in 4:3 and make the appropriate adjustments to
have it display properly. Everyone else just watches it FAT because they
don't know how to fix it. There are aspect ratio buttons on both the cable
box and the TV remote..it's ridiculously and needlessly confusing.

You expect someone's red shirt to be pretty close to read without have to
adjust each channel, you should reasonably expect peoples heads to be a
proper shape as well.

In article ,
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the
aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be
forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If something is 4:3, it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option to
stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD. If the
broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an expert
can find them.

I find it highly insulting to think that the government by force of law
can or would make more intelligent decisions for me than I can for
myself.

If you can't handle the complexities of modern appliances, vote your
pocketbook and don't buy them. Does your VCR still flash 12:00?

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

In article tomstiller-187063.14043931122007
@newsgroups.comcast.net, misc.consumers,
says...
In article ,
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the
aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be
forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If something is 4:3, it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option to
stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD. If the
broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an expert
can find them.

I find it highly insulting to think that the government by force of law
can or would make more intelligent decisions for me than I can for
myself.

Why would leftist statists (my speel czecher want's to substitute
"sadists" here) stop short of controlling your television?

If you can't handle the complexities of modern appliances, vote your
pocketbook and don't buy them. Does your VCR still flash 12:00?

Mine does (why bother), but isn't that my right too? ;-)

--
Keith

"Tom Stiller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the
aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be
forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If something is 4:3,
it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option to
stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD. If the
broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there
wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an
expert
can find them.

I find it highly insulting to think that the government by force of law
can or would make more intelligent decisions for me than I can for
myself.

If you can't handle the complexities of modern appliances, vote your
pocketbook and don't buy them. Does your VCR still flash 12:00?

Well Tom...I'm guessing you don't have any elderly relatives or friends or
neighbors? I'm just fine with all this technology...I'm just tired of having
to fix it for everyone else. I'm tired of having to give a lecture to
someone staying in my guest bedroom on how to turn on the tv and change a
channel. I'm tired of having to show people how to retrieve a text message
on their overly complicated cell phone that ends up being spam anyway. etc
etc. There is no way to vote with one's pocket book unless one wants to just
not have a television or a cellphone. It's as though the consumer
electronics manufactures have entirely ignored the large segment of society
who doesn't get it. Why isn't there a paperback book sized MP3 player that
an elderly adult with normal elderly adult vision and dexterity can use to
listen to music or a book on tape? Something with huge buttons and a display
with 1/2 inch letters? I'd buy a half dozen for friends and relatives in a
heartbeat. You want to set grandpa up with a voice recorder so he can
dictate some stories about the early days of the family for
posterity....good luck finding a little olympus or sony recorder that he can
comprehend operating. There needs to be a simplification in electronics. We
have all this great technology and nobody is using it to simplify things.
They just want to make it smaller and smaller with more and more buttons.

On Dec 31, 7:54*am, "Charles Tomaras" wrote:

Too much freedom for you? *There are people who would rather stretch
tv land than watch it with bars. *There's nothing wrong with giving
them that
\ choice.

I'm all for choice, but I got mad when WDIV was doing stretch with
their news.

Just talking about reducing the complexity of watching a television set.
We're moving my 81 yo dad to a new retirement assisted living home and want
to get him a new HD set but I'll never be able to explain the concepts to
him in a way that he will understand it. His television will constantly be
showing the wrong aspect ratio I'm certain of that.

You could program the channels in for him, as well as the aspect
ratio, and some TVs are more tech required than others. MY RCA Scenium
is friendlier than my cousin's Mitsubishi in that regard, since
entering the digital channel without the subchannel will bring up the
main channel. That should be one of your factors.

I just think that it
should be a real conscious decision to change the aspect ratio and that
broadcasters and manufacture's should be required to do their best to make
the TV display proper geometry without a lot of intervention. People should
be given the concept that the new TV's can show both the old aspect ratios
and the new aspect ratios instead of just calling them widescreen. They are
all widescreen now and I don't believe that needs to be part of the
marketing pitch any more.

They need real and honest experts in the showroom-- not just shills
trying to hook you up to digital cable. I am not up on the latest
technology, but I still know more fundamentals about home theater than
most of the salespeople at the big box stores.

I guess it needs to start with a youth movement
since video is now so prevalent in or society.....have an aspect ratio
demonstration in a math/geometry class so youngsters understand the concept
and how it works. *

Youngsters trade the geek information very easily. Tell 'em only dorks
watch squashed TV because they're to stupid to figure out the set, and
they'll catch on. It's the grown-ups that really need to be trained.

Maybe also, televisions should come with two remotes, one
with big and limited numbers of buttons and a more advanced remote that
someone knowledgeable can use for finer adjustments and extra features.

And a way to access the full menu without a remote (something I hated
about new VCRs).

Seriously, one of the problems with HD sets is that they are more
complicated as a result of their pricing structure. Hopefully, it will
get dumbed down as the price gets cheaper. But, people also assume
that the HD set automatically means an HD picture. No, you need HD
content, and I roll my eyes whenever somebody mentions cable. Things
are steadily improving in bars, though fast food places are clueless.
In any case, businesses are using dish or cable, never OTA, and
everything depends on training somone on how to set the TV.

And as the OP was hinting at, big store displays don't help. I haven't
checked the change this shopping season, but earlier in the year,
Target still had their best HDs displaying the promo on a coaxial
signal.

Charles Tomaras wrote
Kimba W Lion kimbawlion wrote
Charles Tomaras wrote

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the aspect ratio.

More fool you.

It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio.

No thanks, its enough of a nanny state alread.

If something is 4:3, it should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD.

No thanks.

Don't give people the option to stretch out the picture.

Or tell the likes of you to bugger off.

I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD.

Your problem with PERIODS are your problem.

If the broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there wouldn't be an issue.

Yes there would, those of use who care wouldnt see the best picture.

Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an expert can find them.

Bury the likes of you and your demands so deep no one can find you.

I take it you haven't done much product design work since the collapse of the Soviet Union

Or any at all, ever.

Bottom line...things need to be simpler for a good portion of our society.

Nope.

There need to be remote controls that have volume, channel, on, off and nothing more.

If there was a market for those, it would be supplied.

There need to be cell phones with big buttons

You can buy those now.

and no text messaging or cameras.

No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use either.

If someone is, call the cops.

Why an HDTV remote needs to have 60 buttons on it is beyond comprehension for most of the public.

If there was a market for much simpler controls, it would be supplied.

Does anyone really control their VCR from their TV remote?

Yep, some did when anyone used VCRs much.

Get all that **** off of there.

Get the likes of you out of here.

I got a basic cable box for my guest bedroom 19" TV and the remote for it is the same remote as for the cable
company HD DVR and they don't offer a different remote.

You can buy separate remotes.

60 buttons, three quarters of which are not applicable to the box provided but that's what the cable company gives
you.

You can buy separate remotes.

It pains me to see people watching fat television not because that's the way they wanted it but because they don't
know any better and are afraid to change anything.

Your problem.

I'm the only person in my household who can turn a channel, see that its an SD program in 4:3 and make the appropriate
adjustments to have it display properly.

Then you should have bought a TV that does that auto.

Everyone else just watches it FAT because they don't know how to fix it.

Then you should have bought a TV that does that auto.

There are aspect ratio buttons on both the cable box and the TV remote..it's ridiculously and needlessly confusing.

Then you should have bought a TV that does that auto.

You expect someone's red shirt to be pretty close to read without have to adjust each channel, you should reasonably
expect peoples heads to be a proper shape as well.

Then you should have bought a TV that does that auto.

In article ,
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

"Tom Stiller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing the
aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters should be
forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If something is 4:3,
it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option to
stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD. If the
broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry there
wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an
expert
can find them.

I find it highly insulting to think that the government by force of law
can or would make more intelligent decisions for me than I can for
myself.

If you can't handle the complexities of modern appliances, vote your
pocketbook and don't buy them. Does your VCR still flash 12:00?

Well Tom...I'm guessing you don't have any elderly relatives or friends or
neighbors?

I am elderly.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Charles Tomaras wrote:
"Tom Stiller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

The big problem as I see it is giving people the option of changing
the aspect ratio. It should just be FIXED at full and broadcasters
should be forced by law to broadcast in original aspect ratio. If
something is 4:3, it
should be 4:3 with side panels PERIOD. Don't give people the option
to stretch out the picture. I'm talking accurate geometry PERIOD.
If the broadcasters were forced to follow simple rules of geometry
there wouldn't
be an issue. Bury any aspect ratio adjustments so deep that only an
expert
can find them.

I find it highly insulting to think that the government by force of
law can or would make more intelligent decisions for me than I can
for myself.

If you can't handle the complexities of modern appliances, vote your
pocketbook and don't buy them. Does your VCR still flash 12:00?

Well Tom...I'm guessing you don't have any elderly relatives or friends or neighbors?

They should all be gased.

I'm just fine with all this technology...I'm just tired of having to fix it for everyone else. I'm tired of having to
give a lecture to someone staying in my guest bedroom on how to turn on the tv and change a channel.

Then you should get a programable remote and program it.

Not a shred of rocket science whatever required.

I'm tired of having to show people how to retrieve a text message on their overly complicated cell phone that ends up
being spam anyway. etc etc.

Then you should set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.

We wont be legislating so nothing happens that you dont approve of.

There is no way to vote with one's pocket book unless one wants to just not have a television or a cellphone.

Wrong. You can buy TVs that do the size stuff auto, mine does.

You can also buy cellphones that make it
completely trivial to read a text message too.

It's as though the consumer electronics manufactures have entirely ignored the large segment of society who doesn't
get it.

Nope, its just that they are such a small part of the market
that hardly anyone bothers to design stuff for them.

Why isn't there a paperback book sized MP3 player that an elderly adult with normal elderly adult vision and dexterity
can use to listen to music or a book on tape?

Because even the stupidest geriatric can be shown how to do that with an ipod.

Something with huge buttons and a display with 1/2 inch letters?

Because there is such a microscopic market for something like that.

And one of the large button cellphones with mp3 player built in can do that fine.

I'd buy a half dozen for friends and relatives in a heartbeat.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to grasp
that thats a microscopic market and that something like
an iphone can be programmed to do that fine.

So get off your lard arse and do that.

You want to set grandpa up with a voice recorder so he can dictate some stories about the early days of the family for
posterity....good luck finding a little olympus or sony recorder that he can comprehend operating.

Anyone with a clue, which obviously counts you out,
programs one of the countless pdas to do that.

There needs to be a simplification in electronics.

There has been. Look at the ipod some time.

We have all this great technology and nobody is using it to simplify things.

Pig ignorant lie, have a look at the ipod some time.

They just want to make it smaller and smaller with more and more buttons.

Pig ignorant lie, have a look at the ipod some time.