lcd rear projectors, more questions

I can't find the exact answers to this, so I'm asking here...

LCD rear projectors...do they suffer from the same 'motion blur' that
regular LCDs allegedly do? OR is it completely different.

At the store the rear projectors didn't seem as "bright" as LCDs...is
that a problem for the home, ie if you view it at night? One site
said that it's misleading and it looks great at home.

The side views of a rear projecttion...is that just the way it is? IE
if you're 30 degrees off center it kind of looks faded out?

Have there been any complaints with the Sony Brevia V3000 50" that
you've heard of? I couldn't find any.

They also mentioned that when it breaks, it's a simple solution of
replacing the bulb, whereas with an LCD flat panel, you'd have to
replace the whole thing...of course the bulb has a limited
lifespan...maybe the LCD flat panel lasts forever.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:46:19 -0800 (PST), kpb
wrote:

LCD rear projectors...do they suffer from the same 'motion blur' that
regular LCDs allegedly do? OR is it completely different.

Mostly the same, since a lot of it is in the signal, and much of the
rest depends on refresh rates.

At the store the rear projectors didn't seem as "bright" as LCDs...is
that a problem for the home, ie if you view it at night? One site
said that it's misleading and it looks great at home.

At night it would be the least of the problems, but I've seen very
little complaint about brightness. I've seen some very good looking
DLPs and the like.

The side views of a rear projecttion...is that just the way it is? IE
if you're 30 degrees off center it kind of looks faded out?

The angle is greater than that, but LCDs have at least some issue with
that, too. And heck, do you remember the old-fashioned CRT
rear-projection sets? Compared to today's tech, they all sucked.

Have there been any complaints with the Sony Brevia V3000 50" that
you've heard of? I couldn't find any.

They also mentioned that when it breaks, it's a simple solution of
replacing the bulb, whereas with an LCD flat panel, you'd have to
replace the whole thing...of course the bulb has a limited
lifespan...maybe the LCD flat panel lasts forever.

LCDs will fade over 5-10 years as the back light dims, and quite
possibly pixels fail. Plasmas dim, too. None of these is as
rock-solid as the CRT. Newer LED and laser sets, and some future
tech, may be more durable, but aren't really available yet, or just in
a few leading-edge models at higher prices, etc.

Josh

On Dec 23, 12:29*pm, JXStern wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:46:19 -0800 (PST), kpb
wrote:

LCD rear projectors...do they suffer from the same 'motion blur' that
regular LCDs allegedly do? *OR is it completely different.

Mostly the same, since a lot of it is in the signal, and much of the
rest depends on refresh rates.

At the store the rear projectors didn't seem as "bright" as LCDs...is
that a problem for the home, ie if you view it at night? *One site
said that it's misleading and it looks great at home.

At night it would be the least of the problems, but I've seen very
little complaint about brightness. *I've seen some very good looking
DLPs and the like.

The side views of a rear projecttion...is that just the way it is? *IE
if you're 30 degrees off center it kind of looks faded out?

The angle is greater than that, but LCDs have at least some issue with
that, too. *And heck, do you remember the old-fashioned CRT
rear-projection sets? *Compared to today's tech, they all sucked.

Have there been any complaints with the Sony Brevia V3000 50" that
you've heard of? *I couldn't find any.

They also mentioned that when it breaks, it's a simple solution of
replacing the bulb, whereas with an LCD flat panel, you'd have to
replace the whole thing...of course the bulb has a limited
lifespan...maybe the LCD flat panel lasts forever.

LCDs will fade over 5-10 years as the back light dims, and quite
possibly pixels fail. *Plasmas dim, too. *None of these is as
rock-solid as the CRT. *Newer LED and laser sets, and some future
tech, may be more durable, but aren't really available yet, or just in
a few leading-edge models at higher prices, etc.

Josh

Thanks.

I was under the impression that these LCD rear projectors were better
than DLPs, but maybe that's just wrong.

On Dec 23, 9:29*am, JXStern wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:46:19 -0800 (PST), kpb
wrote:
snip

They also mentioned that when it breaks, it's a simple solution of
replacing the bulb, whereas with an LCD flat panel, you'd have to
replace the whole thing...of course the bulb has a limited
lifespan...maybe the LCD flat panel lasts forever.

With rear projectors this is a simple replacement that can be done by
the user. I've done it and it only takes minutes.
NOTHING lasts forever except taxes. If you never turned it on, it
would still eventually fail. Capacitors dry out, platicizers out-gas.
Corrosion from humidity. The list goes on.

LCDs will fade over 5-10 years as the back light dims, and quite
possibly pixels fail. *Plasmas dim, too. *None of these is as
rock-solid as the CRT. *Newer LED and laser sets, and some future
tech, may be more durable, but aren't really available yet, or just
in
a few leading-edge models at higher prices, etc.

Josh

Rock solid CRTs? What you been smokin? They have all sorts of issues.
It's just that after 50+ years of building them, the worst problems
were corrected and you got used to the problems. CRTs fade and burn
just like plasma and for the same reason. The motion blur of a CRT is
very different from a progressive display but it's absolutely there
Camera pans left or right will cause vertical lines on the display to
'lean' left or right depanding on the direction of the pan.

GG

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:59:08 -0800 (PST), G-squared
wrote:

Rock solid CRTs? What you been smokin? They have all sorts of issues.
It's just that after 50+ years of building them, the worst problems
were corrected and you got used to the problems. CRTs fade and burn
just like plasma and for the same reason.

Much more slowly, it seems, I can't speak to the mechanisms, but
twenty year old CRTs still look good and that is not expected of the
plasma.

The motion blur of a CRT is
very different from a progressive display but it's absolutely there
Camera pans left or right will cause vertical lines on the display to
'lean' left or right depanding on the direction of the pan.

Have to talk equivalent technology, like 1080p CRTs.

My old (and recently discarded) CRT had a much smoother image than
newer CRTs, can't really say why. But of course it was lo-res,
analog, and interlaced. But what it did, it did solidly for
twenty-plus years. I don't expect this new LCD will be functional in
ten years.

J.

In article kpb writes:
I can't find the exact answers to this, so I'm asking here...

LCD rear projectors...do they suffer from the same 'motion blur' that
regular LCDs allegedly do? OR is it completely different.

Yes. Pretty much the same, since the light stays on.



At the store the rear projectors didn't seem as "bright" as LCDs...is
that a problem for the home, ie if you view it at night? One site
said that it's misleading and it looks great at home.

They aren't as bright. They also have the more directional rear
projection screen.


The side views of a rear projecttion...is that just the way it is? IE
if you're 30 degrees off center it kind of looks faded out?

More dimmed out. Just like any rear projection system.


Have there been any complaints with the Sony Brevia V3000 50" that
you've heard of? I couldn't find any.

They also mentioned that when it breaks, it's a simple solution of
replacing the bulb, whereas with an LCD flat panel, you'd have to
replace the whole thing...of course the bulb has a limited
lifespan...maybe the LCD flat panel lasts forever.

*IF* it is the bulb. It still could be the smaller panel.

Many of the projector panels fade out with rather shorter time from
the bright light behind them. Not a big problem with the direct view,
because the light on them is much less bright.

Alan

In article JXStern writes:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:59:08 -0800 (PST), G-squared
wrote:

Rock solid CRTs? What you been smokin? They have all sorts of issues.
It's just that after 50+ years of building them, the worst problems
were corrected and you got used to the problems. CRTs fade and burn
just like plasma and for the same reason.

Much more slowly, it seems, I can't speak to the mechanisms, but
twenty year old CRTs still look good and that is not expected of the
plasma.

No, many plasma panels are rated in the 60,000 hour to half brightness
range. Many CRTs are under half that -- in fact some are under 10,000
hours when you take into account cathode emission failure as well.


The motion blur of a CRT is
very different from a progressive display but it's absolutely there
Camera pans left or right will cause vertical lines on the display to
'lean' left or right depanding on the direction of the pan.

Have to talk equivalent technology, like 1080p CRTs.


GG is. There are interesting issues that are basically not addressed
in the temporal nature of taking and presenting consumer video.
For example, is the frame (field) shot all at once, or from top to
bottom at the scan rate? How is it displayed - top to bottom or
all at once?

If the two ends don't match, strange things can happen.


My old (and recently discarded) CRT had a much smoother image than
newer CRTs, can't really say why. But of course it was lo-res,
analog, and interlaced. But what it did, it did solidly for
twenty-plus years. I don't expect this new LCD will be functional in
ten years.

Perhaps you are comparing with a CRT with a frame buffer for a higher
scan rate, or for scaling to higher number of lines to reduce visible
scan lines. Until you verify that all else is the same, you cannot
really blame the CRT.

I don't know why the LCD would not be functional in 10 years, other
than the continuing cheapening of the manufacture of electronic
equipment. At normal TV use, it is likely to not wear out -- it may
well be still going on about as well as new.

Alan

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 03:32:44 +0000 (UTC),
(Alan) wrote:

Much more slowly, it seems, I can't speak to the mechanisms, but
twenty year old CRTs still look good and that is not expected of the
plasma.

No, many plasma panels are rated in the 60,000 hour to half brightness
range. Many CRTs are under half that -- in fact some are under 10,000
hours when you take into account cathode emission failure as well.

Well, that's better on the plasma then I thought, are you saying
that's what we get today with common plasma HDTVs? But even half that
loss is significant. And just who was pushing these short-lived CRTs,
cheap brands?


I don't know why the LCD would not be functional in 10 years, other
than the continuing cheapening of the manufacture of electronic
equipment. At normal TV use, it is likely to not wear out -- it may
well be still going on about as well as new.

Backlight fade. Pixels going out, a failure mode very rare on CRTs.
Internal electronics failure, I don't really expect desktop PCs to
last ten years, either - though they're gettin better. Which does
bring up an interesting question, is there any provision for repair of
these things? Say three years out, a memory chip goes sour. Seems a
shame to dump the whole unit for a two dollar chip, which can probably
be found fairly easily. Could a local shop do that?

J.

On Dec 25, 8:27*am, JXStern wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 03:32:44 +0000 (UTC),

(Alan) wrote:
Much more slowly, it seems, I can't speak to the mechanisms, but
twenty year old CRTs still look good and that is not expected of the
plasma.

No they don't. They degrade SO slowly you don't notice until you get
the new one.

*No, many plasma panels are rated in the 60,000 hour to half brightness
range. *Many CRTs are under half that -- in fact some are under 10,000
hours when you take into account cathode emission failure as well.

Well, that's better on the plasma then I thought, are you saying
that's what we get today with common plasma HDTVs? *But even half that
loss is significant. *And just who was pushing these short-lived CRTs,
cheap brands?

Nobody is pushing cheap OR expensive CRTs. Try to find a CRT set. The
6 at Best Buy are all on the bottom shelf - perhaps because they're
too heavy to lift. Watch what goes out the door - precious few CRT
sets.

*I don't know why the LCD would not be functional in 10 years, other
than the continuing cheapening of the manufacture of electronic
equipment. *At normal TV use, it is likely to not wear out -- it may
well be still going on about as well as new.

Backlight fade. *Pixels going out, a failure mode very rare on CRTs.

But flyback transformer failures on LCD sets are even rarer.

Internal electronics failure, I don't really expect desktop PCs to
last ten years, either - though they're gettin better. *Which does
bring up an interesting question, is there any provision for repair of
these things? *Say three years out, a memory chip goes sour. *Seems a
shame to dump the whole unit for a two dollar chip, which can probably
be found fairly easily. *Could a local shop do that?

Repair is unlikely for a list of reasons. Go try to find a 72 pin DIMM
memory module. The $2 chip is obsolete, nobody wants them and Uncle
Sam demands property tax on unsold inventory meaning there is large
negative incentive to even keep parts available. AND, after you repair
the unit, it's still slow compared to newer units and has a higher
likelyhood of failure. Smarter to run it until it croaks and then
replace it. You can improve the life of the PC by running it only when
you need it and blow the dust out at least once a year

J.

Merry Christmas
GG

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:08:35 -0800 (PST), G-squared
wrote:

On Dec 25, 8:27*am, JXStern wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 03:32:44 +0000 (UTC),

(Alan) wrote:
Much more slowly, it seems, I can't speak to the mechanisms, but
twenty year old CRTs still look good and that is not expected of the
plasma.

No they don't. They degrade SO slowly you don't notice until you get
the new one.

I'm tellin' ya, my 20+ yo Sharp still had a very good picture when I
tossed it. Other problems, but CRT was still, er, sharp.


*No, many plasma panels are rated in the 60,000 hour to half brightness
range. *Many CRTs are under half that -- in fact some are under 10,000
hours when you take into account cathode emission failure as well.

Well, that's better on the plasma then I thought, are you saying
that's what we get today with common plasma HDTVs? *But even half that
loss is significant. *And just who was pushing these short-lived CRTs,
cheap brands?

Nobody is pushing cheap OR expensive CRTs. Try to find a CRT set. The
6 at Best Buy are all on the bottom shelf - perhaps because they're
too heavy to lift. Watch what goes out the door - precious few CRT
sets.

Who was every pushing the low-life CRTs, is what I'm asking, but yeah
it's pretty much moot now.



*I don't know why the LCD would not be functional in 10 years, other
than the continuing cheapening of the manufacture of electronic
equipment. *At normal TV use, it is likely to not wear out -- it may
well be still going on about as well as new.

Backlight fade. *Pixels going out, a failure mode very rare on CRTs.

But flyback transformer failures on LCD sets are even rarer.

Touche. Though that might be the one thing that did remain repairable
on late model CRTs.

Internal electronics failure, I don't really expect desktop PCs to
last ten years, either - though they're gettin better. *Which does
bring up an interesting question, is there any provision for repair of
these things? *Say three years out, a memory chip goes sour. *Seems a
shame to dump the whole unit for a two dollar chip, which can probably
be found fairly easily. *Could a local shop do that?

Repair is unlikely for a list of reasons. Go try to find a 72 pin DIMM
memory module. The $2 chip is obsolete, nobody wants them and Uncle
Sam demands property tax on unsold inventory meaning there is large
negative incentive to even keep parts available. AND, after you repair
the unit, it's still slow compared to newer units and has a higher
likelyhood of failure. Smarter to run it until it croaks and then
replace it. You can improve the life of the PC by running it only when
you need it and blow the dust out at least once a year

Well, about what I thought. Modern life, hey?



J.

Merry Christmas
GG