How can a TV know that an image is coming from a computer, not acomsumer set-top box?

Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
Regards,
Dima

On 14 Dec, 12:51, D wrote:
Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
Regards,
Dima

Some possible reasons below

http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...nightmare.html

http://www.drmblog.com/index.php?/ar...__BAD_DRM.html

Doc

On Dec 14, 7:51 am, D wrote:
Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
Regards,
Dima

DVI uses discrete time binary addressing, whereas a sampling is
derived from the DB15's pin-out voltages (potentially leading to
crosstalk between pixel addressing). Two of three DVI versions, DVI-
digital and DVI-integrated (digital and analog), are within HDMI
standards. Seems like a question as to what version of HDMI (version
2.3b is the latest) Samsung employs. If within industry
specifications, I'd obtain the cable you're contemplating to test the
videoboard's DVI output and verify Samsung's statement that its HDMI
does not meet industry compliance. I'd also first identify the DVI
output of the videoboard for the cable pinout forms illustrated he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:D...ctor_Types.svg

If your output is visually a pin-match of the DVI-A illustration, then
I wouldn't.

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Dr Hfuhruhurr wrote:
| On 14 Dec, 12:51, D wrote:
| Hello!
| According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
| image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
| only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
| from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
| HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
| Regards,
| Dima
|
| Some possible reasons below
|
| http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...nightmare.html
|
| http://www.drmblog.com/index.php?/ar...__BAD_DRM.html

NON-encrypted video over the DVI/HDMI is supposed to be displayed OK.

When DRM restricted content is being played, the player is supposed to
engage HDCP with includes encrypting the digital data over the HDMI wires
so you can't tap into it (otherwise that would be a massively huge hole
in the whole works). In the computer, much of that work is in the video
card (the HDCP part of it) and much of it is in the player software (the
DRM part of it, and making sure the video card driver turns on HDCP before
sending it any restricted video).

For ordinary computer desktop video, that should not have HDCP engaged and
thus the video over the DVI/HDMI wires should not be encrypted. Monitors
and TVs should display that. Those that do not are defective. When you
play a restricted video, then things change and it starts the HDCP unless
you are operating the playback in a reduced mode acceptable to the video
source (like 480i/576i in a small window).

But it is rather well known that firmware programmers make lots of defects.
I've not only seen such in products, I've even dealt with such programmers
in a tech support role (though none of these were developing TV monitor or
DVD player firmware). A lot of them can't program their way out of a soap
bubble. Just last week I had to explain how the POSIX standard read() and
write() functions work to one that had supposedly be programming embedded
systems for years. So I would not be surprised at all if mistakes are made
in such programming in the case of TVs that fail to handle NON-encrypted
video over HDMI (which would break a lot of things, as there are also some
DVD players and set top boxes that have HDMI without HDCP).

For example, LCD does not flicker even at low frame rates. So if the video
is literally being transmitted at 24 frames per second, which would totally
suck on a CRT if it tried to display that directly without upconversion, an
LCD display should have no problem with it. Yet, LCDs are made which will
refuse to display if the frame rate is below 50 fps. I can understand a
limit on the upper end (might exceed the speed the circuits are able to
handle). But on the lower end at 50 fps? LCD should be fine down to 20
fps displaying it directly, and even lower.

OTOH, this could also just be a similar defect on the part of documentation
writers.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

I think you can use the "input" button on your TV remote to choose HDMI
input.

"D" wrote in message
...
Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
Regards,
Dima

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:51:41 -0800, D wrote:

Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable. Regards,
Dima

Don't know if it's true or not, but my Olevia 427V has no problem with it.
Why don't you just try it and see?

Cross posting removed.

--
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My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
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AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv D wrote:

| According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
| image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
| only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
| from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
| HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.

A colleague at work has verified that his Sharp Aquos 37" TV works fine
with his video card DVI output connected to the TV HDMI input via a DVI
to HDMI cable. His computer is running Linux, not Windows. So in this
case, the TV is accepting NON-encrypted digital video correctly as it
should. Hopefully, for non-protected content, Windows will properly NOT
use HDCP. It's only for protected content that it is expected to use
HDCP to ensure you cannot use a monitor that is really something like a
recorder, or let you tap the HDMI cable wires (it's encrypted in HDCP).

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

"T Shadow" wrote in message
...
"D" wrote in message
...
Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is
Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
Regards,
Dima

Wouldn't rule out technical reasons but probably they just don't want
to
answer questions about it. Puts the onus on you.


Likely because HDMI has authentication handshaking built in to its
protocol and the PC may not be savvy to such things.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On Dec 14, 4:08 pm, Dr Hfuhruhurr wrote:
On 14 Dec, 12:51, D wrote:

Hello!
According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is Gigabyte
HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
Regards,
Dima

Some possible reasons below

http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...ic-card-and-mo...

http://www.drmblog.com/index.php?/ar...V_+_HDMI_+_HDC...

Doc
Thanks Doc for replying!
I have bought Gembird DVI-HDMI cable. Samsung is WRONG: Samsung
LE-32r71b does show video through HDMI input from a computer DVI
output (not a blank screen as Samsung affirms), but of much lower
quality than through D-sub input. There is no audio through HDMI also,
although Gigabyte HD 2600Pro outputs audio through DVI output.
Regards,
Dima

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Woody wrote:
|
| "T Shadow" wrote in message
| ...
| "D" wrote in message
| ...
| Hello!
| According to Samsung LE-32r71b HDTV manual the TV cannot receive an
| image from a computer through its HDMI input, but through its d-sub
| only. Is it really true? How can the TV know that an image is coming
| from a computer, not a comsumer set-top box? My video card is
| Gigabyte
| HD 2600Pro. I would like to use a DVI-HDMI cable.
| Regards,
| Dima
|
| Wouldn't rule out technical reasons but probably they just don't want
| to
| answer questions about it. Puts the onus on you.
|
|
| Likely because HDMI has authentication handshaking built in to its
| protocol and the PC may not be savvy to such things.

HDMI and DVI are essentially the same thing, but with different connection
and no standard for audio over DVI. Presumably you can even do HDCP over
DVI if it doesn't need the sound are part of its authentication checks.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|