Humax or Topfield ?

Alan wrote:
In message , Michael Chare
wrote


Maybe the Freeview play back will overcome this as you shouldn't need
the padding

http://www.toppy.org.uk/static/FreeviewPlayback.shtml



It relies on an accurate and managed EPG. The broadcasters have so far
demonstrated that they couldn't care a toss about EPG accuracy or
updating it when things change.

The functionality Michael refers to is on a different 'layer' of the EPG. It's
taking advantage of EIT triggers that the BBC (and now C4?) transmit.

The Beeb have been using them on Sky's EPG since well before Sky+ launched, I
had Sky+ from Nov 2001 until Nov 2005 and I don't recall ever missing the end
of an overrunning BBC programme as recorded on Sky+. The same is true for BBC
programmes recorded using my Sony 710 DVD/HD DTT recorder.

Many Freeview boxes (Toppy currently included) ignore the EIT triggers, and
just go by the vanilla EPG data.

HOWEVER, that's no excuse for the EPG not to be accurate. It really winds me
up that programmes that end at 22:30 on BBC 2 on weekday nights, are not
tagged on the EPG as actually ending at 22:32hrs, because that's when
Newsnight always starts, presumably waiting for the BBC 1 news to end.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In message , Phil Cook
wrote


It ought to be possible to record the whole MUX and just decode the
bits you want later, but that may be a little "complicated" for simple
PVRs and the folk who write the firmware.

You need the "record_a_mux" TAP for the Topfield

http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/view...ays=0&postorde
r=asc&highlight=record+whole+mux&start=0

A 250G hard drive may be too small as this TAP requires10G/hour for the
recordings.


--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:58:37 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:

No more likely than you'd see a spoiler in the course of editing out the
adverts.

Edit out the adverts in advance ? Why not just fast forward (or time jump)
when you actually sit down to watch ? I only edit out the ads if I'm going to
keep the recording, and burn to DVD.

Actually, something that my Sony DVD/HDD does do is insert chapter
stops at the end of ad breaks automatically, so you can skip the whole
ad break just by pressing the skip button. Very handy.

Marky P.

In message , Mark Carver
wrote
Alan wrote:
In message , Michael
Chare wrote


Maybe the Freeview play back will overcome this as you shouldn't
need the padding

http://www.toppy.org.uk/static/FreeviewPlayback.shtml

It relies on an accurate and managed EPG. The broadcasters have so
far demonstrated that they couldn't care a toss about EPG accuracy or
updating it when things change.

The functionality Michael refers to is on a different 'layer' of the
EPG. It's taking advantage of EIT triggers that the BBC (and now C4?)
transmit.

The Beeb have been using them on Sky's EPG since well before Sky+
launched, I had Sky+ from Nov 2001 until Nov 2005 and I don't recall
ever missing the end of an overrunning BBC programme as recorded on
Sky+. The same is true for BBC programmes recorded using my Sony 710
DVD/HD DTT recorder.

Freview Playback with these features was launched well in time for
Christmas - but not this one coming. 18 months on and only the BBC and
Channel 4 have bothered supporting it!

Isn't there still a problem with a program having different identities
if it is repeated on another channel?


Many Freeview boxes (Toppy currently included) ignore the EIT triggers,
and just go by the vanilla EPG data.

I have been successfully recording whole series of programs, ignoring
the repeats, on my Toppy by other means (by using an auto-scheduler
TAP).


HOWEVER, that's no excuse for the EPG not to be accurate.

Exactly my point about the commitment from the broadcasters to support
it in any meaningful way. If the BBC and Channel 4 have this information
why cannot they be bothered to provide an accurate "vanilla" EPG?

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

Alan wrote:

[snip]

Freview Playback with these features was launched well in time for
Christmas - but not this one coming. 18 months on and only the BBC and
Channel 4 have bothered supporting it!

Might be idea if TV channels also had a sticker saying whether they support
Freeview Playback functionality, then again perhaps not, we all know what
their 'stickers' would be.... :-)

Isn't there still a problem with a program having different identities
if it is repeated on another channel?

Yes, I've read that somewhere too I think ?

I have been successfully recording whole series of programs, ignoring
the repeats, on my Toppy by other means (by using an auto-scheduler TAP).

Ditto.

HOWEVER, that's no excuse for the EPG not to be accurate.

Exactly my point about the commitment from the broadcasters to support
it in any meaningful way. If the BBC and Channel 4 have this information
why cannot they be bothered to provide an accurate "vanilla" EPG?

Ditto.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Max Demian wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...

That seems odd. The Humax will do it - even with padding - provided
you aren't recording anything else at the time.

I'm pretty sure that the Humax can't record twice simultaneously from
the same TV channel.

In other words, it appears to use two completely separate heads to
record the programmes.

I don't think you understand how computer technology handles
simultaneous events. As a rule, there will be just one processor/hard
drive head doing a particular thing at a particular time, and if it
appears to be doing two things at once it's just swapping rapidly
between the two operations - or, in the case of the hard drive,
writing to a buffer area of memory and writing to two different areas
of hard disk in chunks alternatively.

You are quite right, of course. There is only one head available for
writing at any one time on a hard disk, no matter how many platters and
heads there are.

I just couldn't think of a way of explaining it easily - I thought of using
"two separate channels", but that would just get confused with two TV
channels! Hence the use of "*appears* to use two completely separate
heads". Perhaps I should have said that it was almost like having two
completely separate hard disks.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

In article , Mark Carver wrote:
No more likely than you'd see a spoiler in the course of editing out the*
adverts.*

Edit out the adverts in advance ? *Why not just fast forward (or time jump)*
when you actually sit down to watch ?

Sometimes I do this if I want to watch it straight away, or of course while it
is still recording. Time jumping relies on the advert breaks being of a number
of fixed durations, but this doesn't always apply. The chief disadvantage is
that I have to stay awake for the entire duration of the programme.

*I only edit out the ads if I'm going to*
keep the recording, and burn to DVD.

Sometimes I'm not sure before I watch a programme whether I'm going to want to
keep it, and would like to judge on the basis of seeing it without any
disruption. Sometimes I do this, and sometimes I can't be bothered.

Rod.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:21:05 -0000, Grumps wrote:

Hi

I've just started looking for a twin tuner (Freeview) box, and have found
the Humax 9200 and the Topfield 5800. Both seem well respected, but is one
better than the other?
Mainly interested in sensitivity, reliability, support, user friendliness,
wife-proof-ness.
Any other makes in the same league or better?
Thanks.

Just be warned that the Humax can't do something as simple as time shifting
two channels at a time, in fact it loses it's time shift when you change
channels as well! You can work around these problems, but I was a bit
surprised that it couldn't do what my old Digifusion FVRT100 could do. I
didn't find it very intuitive either, but on the plus side it does have a
lot of useful features. Also the Humax reboots when you put into standby
for reasons which I can't fathom.

Fred X

Phil Cook wrote:

One irritating thing about about the Toppy is it can't overlap two
recordings from the same channel........ If the two
shows are on different channels then there's no problem.

That's interesting. The Hummy will definitely do this, provided
the second tuner is free.

Why would it need both tuners ?

I think it's because of teh padding. I pad one minute at the start
and ten at the end so consecutive programmes 18.00 to 18.30 and
18.30 to 19.00 will need recordings from 17.59 to 18.40 and 18.29
to 19.10.

It ought to be possible to record the whole MUX and just decode
the bits you want later, but that may be a little "complicated"
for simple PVRs and the folk who write the firmware.

The Dreambox DM 7025 does not place any hard limitations on overlapping
(padded, adjacent) recordings from a single channel, and it does those
with only a single tuner.

There are also no hard limits on the number of simultaneous recordings
in general, as long as they all stay within at most two multiplexes at a
time.

--
znark

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
ti.fi...
Phil Cook wrote:

One irritating thing about about the Toppy is it can't overlap two
recordings from the same channel........ If the two
shows are on different channels then there's no problem.

That's interesting. The Hummy will definitely do this, provided
the second tuner is free.

Why would it need both tuners ?

I think it's because of teh padding. I pad one minute at the start
and ten at the end so consecutive programmes 18.00 to 18.30 and
18.30 to 19.00 will need recordings from 17.59 to 18.40 and 18.29
to 19.10.

It ought to be possible to record the whole MUX and just decode
the bits you want later, but that may be a little "complicated"
for simple PVRs and the folk who write the firmware.

The Dreambox DM 7025 does not place any hard limitations on overlapping
(padded, adjacent) recordings from a single channel, and it does those
with only a single tuner.

There are also no hard limits on the number of simultaneous recordings in
general, as long as they all stay within at most two multiplexes at a
time.

You can record the whole stream from two muxes at the same time, from one
tuner. I'll have a look at that box, sounds good.