Top-notch quality aerial install (?)

My sister had arranged for a new aerial installation at my mother's
house in Liverpool. I had planned to get a proper installer and
discuss my mother's requirements with him; a new C/D band aerial for
the Winter Hill transmitter, remove the old aerial & cable, and fit a
socket box in the wall. I would have expected to pay +£100 for this,
but seeing as all my mother does these days is watch TV, worth it.

Instead, my sister got some guy (don't know who, he didn't give an
estimate, and wanted to be paid in cash) who fitted a "Digital TV
aerial" onto the existing mast, left the old aerial and cable there,
ran the cable over the tiles and down the back wall, only clipped from
first floor sill height down (presumably the height of his ladder),
and drilled the new hole for the cable from the outside, blowing the
plaster inside (see dodgy photos attached - taken with mobile phone at
dusk). All in half an hour and for the princely sum of £40 in used
tenners. Mind you, he must have been a professional installer; he had
a van with writing all over it.

The whole point was to improve the signal which was breaking up
occasionally on certain multiplexes (presumably those with lower
bitrates). I don't think it's improved at all. On some channels, the
signal quality is about 50% with one or two bit errors (from the
signal information page on the TV; I don't know if that's good, bad or
acceptable).

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00031.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00028.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00027.jpg

Any comments?
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

"Hugo Nebula" [email protected] wrote in message
...
My sister had arranged for a new aerial installation at my mother's
house in Liverpool. I had planned to get a proper installer and
discuss my mother's requirements with him; a new C/D band aerial for
the Winter Hill transmitter, remove the old aerial & cable, and fit a
socket box in the wall. I would have expected to pay +£100 for this,
but seeing as all my mother does these days is watch TV, worth it.


You would be lucky to be charged £100. Its more like £250 in that area from
a CAI installer!
The usual sales talk and con comes out about "digital aerial". Then the old
brown coax is used rather than one of acceptable quality. The aerials are
cheap contract ones without a balun or F connector.
One firm covering that area used to be connected with a CB shop and reports
of their work are bad.

Instead, my sister got some guy (don't know who, he didn't give an
estimate, and wanted to be paid in cash)

You do know who ! Ask the person that arranged the job and post his details
here. I find it hard to believe your sister would agree before being given
a price. No one agrees before being given a price. As for being paid in
cash, he's probably using his motability finance car to transport the gear.

who fitted a "Digital TV
aerial" onto the existing mast, left the old aerial and cable there,
ran the cable over the tiles and down the back wall, only clipped from
first floor sill height down (presumably the height of his ladder),

How do you explain him reaching the roof? Was he smoking before he
levitated.

and drilled the new hole for the cable from the outside, blowing the
plaster inside (see dodgy photos attached - taken with mobile phone at
dusk).

How did you expect him to get the cable in to the house? Magic a hole!

All in half an hour and for the princely sum of £40 in used
tenners. Mind you, he must have been a professional installer; he had
a van with writing all over it.


Well stop saying you don't know who it was - because you do, or at least
your sister does.
No point moaning to a newsgroup about something that doesn't concern you
unless you are going to do something about it. What have you done about it?
I thought so! £40 for the supply and fitting of an aerial and coax is very
reasonable. It might not be the best, but your sister got what she paid for
AND what SHE asked him to do.

The whole point was to improve the signal which was breaking up
occasionally on certain multiplexes (presumably those with lower
bitrates).

You obviously don't know about current work at Winter Hill ? The signal
will be up and down for a bit until the start of next year. If you wanted a
better picture, depending on the area, you could use the Storeton
transmitter with vertical polarisation and maybe a preamp. Other than that,
there is a low power relay in the Bidston/ Leasowe area. Or you could use
Moel-Y-Parc. It depends on location and height above sea level.

I don't think it's improved at all.

Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the existing
one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax is OK. You
need either a larger one, a masthead preamp or to use a different
transmitter - or it might need pointing in the right direction. Don't
forget Winter Hill is some distance away so the most common complaint is the
CH5/QVC group of channels breaking up if it rains anywhere near Winter Hill.
About 4 years ago there was a problem with some of the aerials on the site
letting in water. That wasn't disclosed at the time until it was repaired.


On some channels, the
signal quality is about 50% with one or two bit errors (from the
signal information page on the TV; I don't know if that's good, bad or
acceptable).


Well why are you saying the signal hasn't improved and the aerial isn't any
good?
If the picture doesn't break up then just accept that you took so long that
your sister who sounds like she has a bit of common sense has sorted it for
now. I think that's what really annoys you the most.
Your sister actually did something, you just sat around waiting for others
to act so you could pick fault.
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00031.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00028.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00027.jpg

Any comments?

Yes, get a life.

--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

In article ,
John wrote:

[Snip]

About 4 years ago there was a problem with some of the aerials on the
site letting in water. That wasn't disclosed at the time until it was
repaired.

Also happened about 15/20 years ago. It was the fibreglass shroud filling
up with water in one or two places. It took over a year of "investigation"
until the problem was found. Solution: Fit drain holes.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the existing
one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax is OK.

But, looking at the OPs picture, our man has used a wideband of similar size
to
replace a C/D so it will have much less gain than the existing one even if
there is nothing wrong with it.
Given the details about reception we have been given, it is most unlikely
that a relay would be more appropriate than Winter Hill.

Hugo, I assume you agree that a wideband yagi is never appropriate
for Winter Hill?
--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
Graham. wrote:


Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the
existing one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax
is OK.

But, looking at the OPs picture, our man has used a wideband of similar
size to replace a C/D so it will have much less gain than the existing
one even if there is nothing wrong with it.

A wideband aerial of similar size will, theoretically, have less gain than
a grouped one. But, if the original had no balun and the new one has the
gains could well be similar. With a balun there should be less chance of
pick-up of impulsive interference in the downlead. So it is possible that
an apparently similar looking aerial will give better results.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the
existing one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax
is OK.

But, looking at the OPs picture, our man has used a wideband of similar
size to replace a C/D so it will have much less gain than the existing
one even if there is nothing wrong with it.

A wideband aerial of similar size will, theoretically, have less gain than
a grouped one. But, if the original had no balun and the new one has the
gains could well be similar. With a balun there should be less chance of
pick-up of impulsive interference in the downlead. So it is possible that
an apparently similar looking aerial will give better results.


Both these factors are more than just theoretical, I would want the
replacement to be a group C/D and have a balun.
--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
Graham. wrote:

Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the
existing one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax
is OK.

But, looking at the OPs picture, our man has used a wideband of similar
size to replace a C/D so it will have much less gain than the existing
one even if there is nothing wrong with it.

A wideband aerial of similar size will, theoretically, have less gain
than a grouped one. But, if the original had no balun and the new one
has the gains could well be similar. With a balun there should be less
chance of pick-up of impulsive interference in the downlead. So it is
possible that an apparently similar looking aerial will give better
results.


Both these factors are more than just theoretical, I would want the
replacement to be a group C/D and have a balun.

a difficult thing to find, I'm led to believe.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

In article , Hugo Nebula
[email protected]? scribeth thus
My sister had arranged for a new aerial installation at my mother's
house in Liverpool. I had planned to get a proper installer and
discuss my mother's requirements with him; a new C/D band aerial for
the Winter Hill transmitter, remove the old aerial & cable, and fit a
socket box in the wall. I would have expected to pay +£100 for this,
but seeing as all my mother does these days is watch TV, worth it.

Instead, my sister got some guy (don't know who, he didn't give an
estimate, and wanted to be paid in cash) who fitted a "Digital TV
aerial" onto the existing mast, left the old aerial and cable there,
ran the cable over the tiles and down the back wall, only clipped from
first floor sill height down (presumably the height of his ladder),
and drilled the new hole for the cable from the outside, blowing the
plaster inside (see dodgy photos attached - taken with mobile phone at
dusk). All in half an hour and for the princely sum of £40 in used
tenners. Mind you, he must have been a professional installer; he had
a van with writing all over it.

The whole point was to improve the signal which was breaking up
occasionally on certain multiplexes (presumably those with lower
bitrates). I don't think it's improved at all. On some channels, the
signal quality is about 50% with one or two bit errors (from the
signal information page on the TV; I don't know if that's good, bad or
acceptable).

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00031.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00028.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...a/DSC00027.jpg

Any comments?

Yep...

Did she give his horse some hay whilst it was tied up there?..

And You got someone to -Work- in scouserland?...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
Graham. wrote:


Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the
existing one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax
is OK.

But, looking at the OPs picture, our man has used a wideband of similar
size to replace a C/D so it will have much less gain than the existing
one even if there is nothing wrong with it.

A wideband aerial of similar size will, theoretically, have less gain than
a grouped one. But, if the original had no balun and the new one has the
gains could well be similar. With a balun there should be less chance of
pick-up of impulsive interference in the downlead. So it is possible that
an apparently similar looking aerial will give better results.


There are parts of Liverpool that aren't that good from Winter Hill but
I don't or can't think of any relays that are there....
--
Tony Sayer

The message
from tony sayer contains these words:

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
Graham. wrote:


Fitting an aerial of the same size will do nothing really if the
existing one doesn't provide a signal that is acceptable, if the coax
is OK.

But, looking at the OPs picture, our man has used a wideband of similar
size to replace a C/D so it will have much less gain than the existing
one even if there is nothing wrong with it.

A wideband aerial of similar size will, theoretically, have less gain than
a grouped one. But, if the original had no balun and the new one has the
gains could well be similar. With a balun there should be less chance of
pick-up of impulsive interference in the downlead. So it is possible that
an apparently similar looking aerial will give better results.


There are parts of Liverpool that aren't that good from Winter Hill but
I don't or can't think of any relays that are there....

I should think the Storeton Relay (in Wirral) would serve them (the
primary reason for its existance). Unusually, for a relay, it carries
all the digital muxes.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
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