Good Digital TV aerials

In message
,
writes
The CAI standards are set especially high, so that only the aerials
that meet the criteria are true wideband aerials.

Aerials which are deemed wideband, but do not meet the CAI standard
are likely to have either reduced gain across the bandwidth, or
polarisation issues etc, all which can lead to signal quality
problems. Such un-approved "wideband" aerials are unlikely to meet the
high standards set by the CAI. I believe it is in the interests of the
public to look for either a CAI or digitally approved aerial (as
opposed to non approved aerial) this is to ensure an aerial is
installed that is capable of meeting a satisfactory standard as
recommended by the industry. For a list of CAI approved aerials please
visit the CAI website.
My expertise is with TVs not aerials, but where I live, which is digital
only,(Whitehaven land) my loft aerial is perfectly adequate, and its 28
years old.
--
Clive.

In message
,
writes
We will all be looking back at these convesations in 2012 while a
"wideband" digital aerial (Cai approved/Digital Tick) will be perched
on top of our hosue/flat!
You might, I won't, I'm digital only now, with my original aerial.
--
Clive.

In message , Bill Wright
wrote

wrote in message
...
I have myself installed a 52 element aerial and can receive all
available digital channels. I will certainly consider purchasing
another when i move.

How many aerials have you installed, in total, in your whole life? One?


He may have to install a second after the first high wind when his
digital aerial falls apart I wonder if he used a digital down-lead

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In article
..com, scribeth thus
On 27 Nov, 12:54, "Brian" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On 27 Nov, 11:52, Dr Hfuhruhurr wrote:





On 27 Nov, 11:41, wrote:

I have noticed Commtel supply a range of high quality Digital TV
aerials, and digitally compatible low noise TV boosters, available
from Focus, Homebase and Argos.

The added benefit of the Commtel aerials over "unapproved" aerials
is that the aerials themselves have been fully approved by the high
standards of the CAI (Confederation of Aerial Industries) and also
have the Digital Tick.

I have myself installed a 52 element aerial and can receive all
available digital channels. I will certainly consider purchasing
another when i move.

Spam?
A good digital TV aerial is the same as a good Analogue TV aerial.
My mother in law's analogue LOFT aerial is 30 years old and picks up a
better 'digital' signal than her neighbours externally mounted
'digital' aerial (it too had the 'tick')

The analogue aerial is most likely to be an old "group aerial" with
high gain over a limited bandwidth. (Allowing only specific digital
channels to be received) Agreed, this will be ok for some, but not all
digital channels.

There is no substitute for a proper digital wideband aerial, which
covers the full bandwidth that digital will eventually offer. IE. When
further channels are added in the future, and the bandwidth becomes
filled with these channels. The gaps of reduced gain across the
"bandwidth" will become more apparent in the older "analogue" type
aerials. Ask yourself the question, would you feel confident to watch
HD TV through a thirty year old analogue aerial? When a good quality
digital aerial can be purchased today for under £30?

With all "band type" analogue aerials there is a limitation to the
bandwidth received. We will all have to upgrade to a digitally
approved wideband aerial eventually, if we are to continue to enjoy
the TV that is offered, or we will inevitably suffer loss of channels.
Seems like you are so gullible that you have been totally taken in by all
the flase advertising, or you are trying to do it yourself.
An aerial is an aerial is an aerial, the differences being the frequency
responce according to the group of channels it is designed to receive. (I
think we can all accept that we are talking of Yagi aerials here, not log
periodic and other types).
Any low noise amp will work equally well with analogue or digital signals.



It seems as though you may have inadvertantly answered the limitations
to the group aerials for Digital use yourself:-

I.e The word "If"

"If it is in the right group"

What about if it isn't in the right group?

Frequency response is critical to future proof Digital reception!


The chances of digital channels being only added a specific group
"just for 30 yr old group aerials" is unlikely

Why do you think the industry have been promoting Wideband aerials? It
is not false advertising. If you can successfully get full digital
reception across the full bandwidth with a group aerial, people
would.

They've been promoted because its a one size fits all answer to TV
reception and its good for the industry to get people to spend on new
aerials!.. And like one size fits all its not a very good solution to
all of the reception requirements.

And Wideband Yagi's are a bit of an Oxymoron to say the least. The only
proper wideband aerial is the log periodic...


Why has the industry been spending thousands in advertising to make
the general public aware? It is because of the Frequency response
limitations posed by group aerials is the limiting factor! A good
digfital aerial solves the grouping issues of exisiting aerials.



At the expense of gain/bandwidth.....



--
Tony Sayer

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:12:04 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

In article ,
Marky P wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:17:49 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

Correct, (suitable for digital use) However I believe most people
would understand the general term "digital aerial" IE A digitally
approved aerial.
All CAI approved

Approved eh?, by what standards anyone know?..

I'm sure there is only one CAI approved wideband aerial, and thats
that monstrosity, the DAT75.


I've just looked at the CAI's website. There isn't quite the approved/not
approved setup - it's approved to standards 1, 2 or 3. and yes, the DAT75
is the only one listed as conforming to standard 1 (high gain aerials).
There are a large number conforming to standard 2.

The fact that two of the BBC's aerial experts are on the relevant panel
gives me some confidence about the results.

Well, however ropey the CAI benchmarking system is, it does show that
wideband aerials perform worse than grouped aerials.

Marky P.

In article , Marky P
scribeth thus
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:12:04 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

In article ,
Marky P wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:17:49 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

Correct, (suitable for digital use) However I believe most people
would understand the general term "digital aerial" IE A digitally
approved aerial.
All CAI approved

Approved eh?, by what standards anyone know?..

I'm sure there is only one CAI approved wideband aerial, and thats
that monstrosity, the DAT75.


I've just looked at the CAI's website. There isn't quite the approved/not
approved setup - it's approved to standards 1, 2 or 3. and yes, the DAT75
is the only one listed as conforming to standard 1 (high gain aerials).
There are a large number conforming to standard 2.

The fact that two of the BBC's aerial experts are on the relevant panel
gives me some confidence about the results.

Well, however ropey the CAI benchmarking system is, it does show that
wideband aerials perform worse than grouped aerials.

Marky P.


Its fundamental to the design and always has been. Yagi's are
essentially narrowband devices, and stretching them to cover the whole
of band 4 and 5 isn't that good an idea!.

The log periodic OTOH is a wideband device but there is always a trade
off betwixt gain and bandwidth!....
--
Tony Sayer

Something which makes it absolutely clear that a wideband aerial is NOT a
'digital aerial' is the fact that, at some transmitters a wideband aerial is
already needed for satisfactory reception of analogue. An example of this
is Reigate where the four older channels are up near the top of the band,
but 'five' is on channel 42.
The term 'digital aerial' is pseudo-technical nonsense brought about by the
ignorance of non technical advertising writers at High Street retailers like
Argos and Currys.

In message ,
Adrian A Proclaimed from the tallest tower:

wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 12:31, Marky P wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:20:01 -0800 (PST),
wrote:





On 27 Nov, 11:52, Dr Hfuhruhurr wrote:
On 27 Nov, 11:41, wrote:

I have noticed Commtel supply a range of high quality Digital TV
aerials, and digitally compatible low noise TV boosters, available
from Focus, Homebase and Argos.

The added benefit of the Commtel aerials over "unapproved" aerials is
that the aerials themselves have been fully approved
by the high standards of the CAI (Confederation of Aerial
Industries) and also have the Digital Tick.

I have myself installed a 52 element aerial and can receive all
available digital channels. I will certainly consider purchasing
another when i move.

Spam?
A good digital TV aerial is the same as a good Analogue TV aerial.
My mother in law's analogue LOFT aerial is 30 years old and picks
up a better 'digital' signal than her neighbours externally mounted
'digital' aerial (it too had the 'tick')

The analogue aerial is most likely to be an old "group aerial" with
high gain over a limited bandwidth. (Allowing only specific digital
channels to be received) Agreed, this will be ok for some, but not
all digital channels.

There is no substitute for a proper digital wideband aerial, which
covers the full bandwidth that digital will eventually offer. IE.
When further channels are added in the future, and the bandwidth
becomes filled with these channels. The gaps of reduced gain across
the "bandwidth" will become more apparent in the older "analogue"
type aerials. Ask yourself the question, would you feel confident
to watch HD TV through a thirty year old analogue aerial? When a
good quality digital aerial can be purchased today for under £30?

With all "band type" analogue aerials there is a limitation to the
bandwidth received. We will all have to upgrade to a digitally
approved wideband aerial eventually, if we are to continue to enjoy
the TV that is offered, or we will inevitably suffer loss of
channels.

Ahem! There is no such thing as a digital aerial. What you have
bought is a wideband aerial.

Marky P.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Correct, (suitable for digital use) However I believe most people
would understand the general term "digital aerial" IE A digitally
approved aerial.
All CAI approved wideband aerials will be significantly more future
proof than a group aerial i believe, especially post switchover.


You're either a troll or a fool, which is it?

Could he not be a foolish troll?? :-)

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

In article
,
wrote:
On 27 Nov, 12:54, "Brian" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On 27 Nov, 11:52, Dr Hfuhruhurr wrote:





On 27 Nov, 11:41, wrote:

I have noticed Commtel supply a range of high quality Digital TV
aerials, and digitally compatible low noise TV boosters, available
from Focus, Homebase and Argos.

The added benefit of the Commtel aerials over "unapproved" aerials
is that the aerials themselves have been fully approved by the high
standards of the CAI (Confederation of Aerial Industries) and also
have the Digital Tick.

I have myself installed a 52 element aerial and can receive all
available digital channels. I will certainly consider purchasing
another when i move.

Spam?
A good digital TV aerial is the same as a good Analogue TV aerial.
My mother in law's analogue LOFT aerial is 30 years old and picks up a
better 'digital' signal than her neighbours externally mounted
'digital' aerial (it too had the 'tick')

The analogue aerial is most likely to be an old "group aerial" with
high gain over a limited bandwidth. (Allowing only specific digital
channels to be received) Agreed, this will be ok for some, but not all
digital channels.

There is no substitute for a proper digital wideband aerial, which
covers the full bandwidth that digital will eventually offer. IE. When
further channels are added in the future, and the bandwidth becomes
filled with these channels. The gaps of reduced gain across the
"bandwidth" will become more apparent in the older "analogue" type
aerials. Ask yourself the question, would you feel confident to watch
HD TV through a thirty year old analogue aerial? When a good quality
digital aerial can be purchased today for under £30?

With all "band type" analogue aerials there is a limitation to the
bandwidth received. We will all have to upgrade to a digitally
approved wideband aerial eventually, if we are to continue to enjoy
the TV that is offered, or we will inevitably suffer loss of channels.
Seems like you are so gullible that you have been totally taken in by all
the flase advertising, or you are trying to do it yourself.
An aerial is an aerial is an aerial, the differences being the frequency
responce according to the group of channels it is designed to receive. (I
think we can all accept that we are talking of Yagi aerials here, not log
periodic and other types).
Any low noise amp will work equally well with analogue or digital signals.



It seems as though you may have inadvertantly answered the limitations
to the group aerials for Digital use yourself:-

I.e The word "If"

"If it is in the right group"

What about if it isn't in the right group?

Frequency response is critical to future proof Digital reception!


The chances of digital channels being only added a specific group
"just for 30 yr old group aerials" is unlikely

Why do you think the industry have been promoting Wideband aerials? It
is not false advertising. If you can successfully get full digital
reception across the full bandwidth with a group aerial, people
would.

Why has the industry been spending thousands in advertising to make
the general public aware? It is because of the Frequency response
limitations posed by group aerials is the limiting factor! A good
digfital aerial solves the grouping issues of exisiting aerials.

If what you say were true why does the Digital UK Enhanced Post Code
Checker say that a Group C/D aerial is the best choice for me both now,
after our Analogue switch off and after all DSO is complete?

Are you saying that they are misleading everyone and that Aerial
Installers, who will make more profit if they can persuade people to buy a
new 'Digital' aerial when it is not needed, are correct.

I think that you are just trying to counter the expert technical opinion on
this group because people are starting to realise that wideband aerials are
often not needed.

Maybe you are an installer who has foolishly bought a large stock of
unneeded wideband aerials??

Peter

--
Peter Gillett :
Totnes : South Devon

She may be lucky that the signals are in band for the existing aerial of
course.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Dr Hfuhruhurr" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 11:41, wrote:
I have noticed Commtel supply a range of high quality Digital TV
aerials, and digitally compatible low noise TV boosters, available
from Focus, Homebase and Argos.

The added benefit of the Commtel aerials over "unapproved" aerials
is that the aerials themselves have been fully approved by the high
standards of the CAI (Confederation of Aerial Industries) and also
have the Digital Tick.

I have myself installed a 52 element aerial and can receive all
available digital channels. I will certainly consider purchasing
another when i move.

Spam?
A good digital TV aerial is the same as a good Analogue TV aerial.
My mother in law's analogue LOFT aerial is 30 years old and picks up a
better 'digital' signal than her neighbours externally mounted
'digital' aerial (it too had the 'tick')