Blu-Ray player for $349

On Nov 19, 11:19 am, "Matthew L. Martin" wrote:
ninphan wrote:

Okay this doesn't make sense to me. Firstly you mention several
players that are cheaper than the XA2, then state that you won't buy a
Blu-ray player until it's cheaper than the high-end HD DVD player?

Who says it has to make sense to you? I have the HD-XA2. I'm happy with
it. What's that to you?

How much did you pay for your XA2 because the lowest it's gotten
recently has been $479. The DMP-BD30 is a better player than the XA2
and is the same price. You said not an hour ago that it would be a
couple years before Blu-ray could do this, yet there it is right now.

Is it the top of the line? What is the price of a flagship Blu-Ray player?

It's easy enough to rebut statements with the "you're just a fanboi"
quip, but why don't you try actually giving reasons why the facts I'm
presenting are not really facts?

Why should I bother. It wouldn't change your opinion, nor would an
extended discussion change mine.

1) Toshiba is pricing all other CE's out of any reason to make HD DVD
players. Denon, Daewoo, Samsung, JVC, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Sony,
Pioneer, Panasonic, Loewe, Funai, Philips and Sharp all either have
Blu-ray players displayed in stores or have Blu-ray players slated for
release in the first half of 2008.

So what?

2) Blu-ray has won every week's software sales in North America, the
only market where HD DVD has a fighting chance. In all other markets
Blu-ray is winning 4:1 to 9:1. Even when HD DVD had the year's first
$300 million blockbuster come out exclusively on the format, it could
not win the week's sales, nor could it beat the first week's sales of
"300" on Blu-ray, which did over $100 million less at the box office
and was released neutrally.

So, you seem to need a lot of validation for making your choice. That's
fine. I made my choice for my reasons and I'm happy about it. Why does
that bother you?

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Your first comment is truly baffling. You stated that the top of the
line Blu-ray players wouldn't be as cheap as the top of the line HD
DVD players for a few years to come. It's just been pointed out to you
that the top of the line BLu-ray player, the Panny DMP-BD30, is the
same price as the XA2. Hence your opinion doesn't make sense...not
just to me but to any person of normal intelligence. Perhaps you were
just unaware of developments in Blu-ray hardware? Otherwise you were
just lying?

1) The DMP-BD30 is the top of the line player - it's the only one in
fact that's currently certified profile 1.1
2) I don't need validation, I'm just pointing out facts that's all.
You can spin it however you want and based on your "So what?"
response, the arguments against the facts just aren't there, which is
what I already knew.

ninphan wrote:
On Nov 19, 11:19 am, "Matthew L. Martin"
wrote:
ninphan wrote:

Okay this doesn't make sense to me. Firstly you mention several
players that are cheaper than the XA2, then state that you won't
buy a Blu-ray player until it's cheaper than the high-end HD DVD
player?
Who says it has to make sense to you? I have the HD-XA2. I'm happy
with it. What's that to you?

How much did you pay for your XA2 because the lowest it's gotten
recently has been $479. The DMP-BD30 is a better player than the
XA2 and is the same price. You said not an hour ago that it would
be a couple years before Blu-ray could do this, yet there it is
right now.
Is it the top of the line? What is the price of a flagship Blu-Ray
player?

It's easy enough to rebut statements with the "you're just a
fanboi" quip, but why don't you try actually giving reasons why
the facts I'm presenting are not really facts?
Why should I bother. It wouldn't change your opinion, nor would an
extended discussion change mine.

1) Toshiba is pricing all other CE's out of any reason to make HD
DVD players. Denon, Daewoo, Samsung, JVC, Mitsubishi, Hitachi,
Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Loewe, Funai, Philips and Sharp all
either have Blu-ray players displayed in stores or have Blu-ray
players slated for release in the first half of 2008.
So what?

2) Blu-ray has won every week's software sales in North America,
the only market where HD DVD has a fighting chance. In all other
markets Blu-ray is winning 4:1 to 9:1. Even when HD DVD had the
year's first $300 million blockbuster come out exclusively on the
format, it could not win the week's sales, nor could it beat the
first week's sales of "300" on Blu-ray, which did over $100
million less at the box office and was released neutrally.
So, you seem to need a lot of validation for making your choice.
That's fine. I made my choice for my reasons and I'm happy about
it. Why does that bother you?

Matthew

-- "All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right
kind of people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Your first comment is truly baffling. You stated that the top of the
line Blu-ray players wouldn't be as cheap as the top of the line HD
DVD players for a few years to come. It's just been pointed out to
you that the top of the line BLu-ray player, the Panny DMP-BD30, is
the same price as the XA2.

So, you are saying that the Panasonic is the top of the line Blu-Ray
player? Take a look at this opinion:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/blu_ray/panasonics-dmp+bd30-is-the-500-next+gen-blu+ray-player-to-beat-316903.php

Last week Samsung told us its hybrid BD-UP5000 Duo would be the very
first next-gen Blu-ray player. Today, Panasonic rolls out theirs,
with plans to deliver even faster. The $500 DMP-BD30 will meet the
requirements of BD Profile 1.1, also known as "Final Standard
Profile." This will be the only next-gen Blu-ray player on the market
when it hits in the second week of November. As you read this, Sony
and Pioneer are also reading, knowing they probably should have been
able to do what Panasonic is doing (and what Samsung claims it will
do): deliver a "standard" Blu-ray player by Christmas 2007.

That said, the DMP-BD30 is nothing but "standard." To meet the BD
Profile 1.1 spec, it needed internal storage. Panasonic answered that
in the the way it knows best, by adding an SD card slot. (This is
essentially their way of saying, "Get your own damn 256MB of flash
memory," ...

Hardly sounds like "top of the line" to me.

Hence your opinion doesn't make sense...not just to me but to any
person of normal intelligence. Perhaps you were just unaware of
developments in Blu-ray hardware? Otherwise you were just lying?

1) The DMP-BD30 is the top of the line player - it's the only one in
fact that's currently certified profile 1.1

That seems faint praise for a format that has been shipping for a long time.

2) I don't need validation, I'm just pointing out facts that's all.
You can spin it however you want and based on your "So what?"
response, the arguments against the facts just aren't there, which is
what I already knew.

Why is this so important to you? You have spent the time to make nine
posts on this topic in less than 90 minutes.

I suggest that it is because you are a fanboi.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Can I jump in here as a complete n00b to HD DVD and BluRay players?
Thank you.

I don't intend to, nor can I justify, buying a $500 player to watch
movies. I don't play video games.

So for the average shmoe like me, married with a kid, who enjoys an
occasional netflix rental here and there ( i no longer buy movies
either ), is a $100 HD DVD player the way to go?

I honestly don't care - blue ray or hd dvd, as long as it works with
my new receiver and is $100 or $150 or hell $200 at the most.

Or is BluRay more for the aficianados?

Thanks!

On Nov 19, 11:54 am, "Matthew L. Martin" wrote:
ninphan wrote:
On Nov 19, 11:19 am, "Matthew L. Martin"
wrote:
ninphan wrote:

Okay this doesn't make sense to me. Firstly you mention several
players that are cheaper than the XA2, then state that you won't
buy a Blu-ray player until it's cheaper than the high-end HD DVD
player?
Who says it has to make sense to you? I have the HD-XA2. I'm happy
with it. What's that to you?

How much did you pay for your XA2 because the lowest it's gotten
recently has been $479. The DMP-BD30 is a better player than the
XA2 and is the same price. You said not an hour ago that it would
be a couple years before Blu-ray could do this, yet there it is
right now.
Is it the top of the line? What is the price of a flagship Blu-Ray
player?

It's easy enough to rebut statements with the "you're just a
fanboi" quip, but why don't you try actually giving reasons why
the facts I'm presenting are not really facts?
Why should I bother. It wouldn't change your opinion, nor would an
extended discussion change mine.

1) Toshiba is pricing all other CE's out of any reason to make HD
DVD players. Denon, Daewoo, Samsung, JVC, Mitsubishi, Hitachi,
Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Loewe, Funai, Philips and Sharp all
either have Blu-ray players displayed in stores or have Blu-ray
players slated for release in the first half of 2008.
So what?

2) Blu-ray has won every week's software sales in North America,
the only market where HD DVD has a fighting chance. In all other
markets Blu-ray is winning 4:1 to 9:1. Even when HD DVD had the
year's first $300 million blockbuster come out exclusively on the
format, it could not win the week's sales, nor could it beat the
first week's sales of "300" on Blu-ray, which did over $100
million less at the box office and was released neutrally.
So, you seem to need a lot of validation for making your choice.
That's fine. I made my choice for my reasons and I'm happy about
it. Why does that bother you?

Matthew

-- "All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right
kind of people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Your first comment is truly baffling. You stated that the top of the
line Blu-ray players wouldn't be as cheap as the top of the line HD
DVD players for a few years to come. It's just been pointed out to
you that the top of the line BLu-ray player, the Panny DMP-BD30, is
the same price as the XA2.

So, you are saying that the Panasonic is the top of the line Blu-Ray
player? Take a look at this opinion:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/blu_ray/panasonics-dmp+bd30-is-the-500-nex...

Last week Samsung told us its hybrid BD-UP5000 Duo would be the very
first next-gen Blu-ray player. Today, Panasonic rolls out theirs,
with plans to deliver even faster. The $500 DMP-BD30 will meet the
requirements of BD Profile 1.1, also known as "Final Standard
Profile." This will be the only next-gen Blu-ray player on the market
when it hits in the second week of November. As you read this, Sony
and Pioneer are also reading, knowing they probably should have been
able to do what Panasonic is doing (and what Samsung claims it will
do): deliver a "standard" Blu-ray player by Christmas 2007.

That said, the DMP-BD30 is nothing but "standard." To meet the BD
Profile 1.1 spec, it needed internal storage. Panasonic answered that
in the the way it knows best, by adding an SD card slot. (This is
essentially their way of saying, "Get your own damn 256MB of flash
memory," ...

Hardly sounds like "top of the line" to me.

Hence your opinion doesn't make sense...not just to me but to any
person of normal intelligence. Perhaps you were just unaware of
developments in Blu-ray hardware? Otherwise you were just lying?

1) The DMP-BD30 is the top of the line player - it's the only one in
fact that's currently certified profile 1.1

That seems faint praise for a format that has been shipping for a long time.

2) I don't need validation, I'm just pointing out facts that's all.
You can spin it however you want and based on your "So what?"
response, the arguments against the facts just aren't there, which is
what I already knew.

Why is this so important to you? You have spent the time to make nine
posts on this topic in less than 90 minutes.

I suggest that it is because you are a fanboi.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, each post took so long to type and was an intense labour of
love!,/sarcasm

As for the DMP-BD30, I would gather that picture and sound are the
most important things, which is why you picked the XA2.
The Panasonic's P4HD and 15 billion pixel per second processing make
it the top of the line player.
Recently 50 of the more influential journalists in the high def world
were invited to Panasonic Hollywood Labs in Universal City, California
as part of the Blu-ray Event 2007. A 2k master of Fantastic Four: Rise
of the Silver Surfer was being projected onto a 100" reference screen.
It was being split-screened with Panasonic's 1080p AVC/MPEG-4 encode
via a Blu-ray Disc player. Not one could tell where the split screen
seam was.

The SD slot does not need to have a 256MB card in for profile 1.1
compatability. It's to allow for web enabled 2.0 content to be
downloaded from the internet onto the card at which point the 2.0
discs would recognize the available extra content and interact with
it.

Profile 1.1 compliance is in the hardware.

Cognitive Distortion wrote:
Can I jump in here as a complete n00b to HD DVD and BluRay players?
Thank you.

I don't intend to, nor can I justify, buying a $500 player to watch
movies. I don't play video games.

So for the average shmoe like me, married with a kid, who enjoys an
occasional netflix rental here and there ( i no longer buy movies
either ), is a $100 HD DVD player the way to go?

I honestly don't care - blue ray or hd dvd, as long as it works with
my new receiver and is $100 or $150 or hell $200 at the most.

Or is BluRay more for the aficianados?

For the purpose that you suggest (watching rentals), I don't see any
difference (other than price) between the two HD formats. Both provide
more than enough storage for spectacular results with well mastered and
compressed sources.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute wrote:
In message , Matthew L. Martin sprach
forth the following:
Have fun. Meanwhile, I will enjoy my HD-XA2 and wait for Blu-Ray to
give me a reason to buy.

Matthew


Die, FormatFanboyFaggot.

plonk

Is that all it took? If I had but known.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

On Nov 19, 12:22 pm, Cognitive Distortion wrote:
Can I jump in here as a complete n00b to HD DVD and BluRay players?
Thank you.

I don't intend to, nor can I justify, buying a $500 player to watch
movies. I don't play video games.

So for the average shmoe like me, married with a kid, who enjoys an
occasional netflix rental here and there ( i no longer buy movies
either ), is a $100 HD DVD player the way to go?

I honestly don't care - blue ray or hd dvd, as long as it works with
my new receiver and is $100 or $150 or hell $200 at the most.

Or is BluRay more for the aficianados?

Thanks!

It depends on your television. If you have an HDTV with maximum 1080i
resolution, then it doesn't matter which player you get.

It sounds to me like the way to go for you is to wait until next
Christmas. By then you'll have a clearer idea of where the format war
is going to go and hardware will be cheaper.

I don't believe Blu-ray is more for the afficianados, because that
would imply the minority. Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD since the
inception of the format by 61:39 in North America, despite HD DVD
being released two months earlier. In 2007 Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD
65:35 in North America. Blu-ray has not lost a single week's sales
this entire year. Week's have ranged from 51:49 to Blu-ray when
Transformers came out exclusively on the HD DVD format, to 82:18 to
Blu-ray when Casino Royale was released only on Blu-ray.

Only one hardware manufacturer currently makes HD DVD hardware,
several make Blu-ray hardware.

Blu-ray has more capacity, more bandwidth, more major studio support,
more big name director support, more hardware support from major
consumer electric companies, more disc sales, more industry
penetration (camcorders, industrial servers, burners, laptops,
players, HTiB's, PVR's, HDD's, Gaming consoles, etc., etc., etc.

There is very little sign of Blu-ray not coming out of this
victorious. If you don't feel like spending more than $199 on an HDM
player then I would imagine that you would not want to lose $199 on a
player either.

Again, it sounds like waiting another 8-12 months is the best course
of action for yourself and in the meantime just enjoy broadcast HD.

Is that all it took? If I had but known.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Why would you even bother responding to such an complete idiot? Now
you've archived his homophobic, pathetic posts.

ninphan wrote:
Is that all it took? If I had but known.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Why would you even bother responding to such an complete idiot? Now
you've archived his homophobic, pathetic posts.

My, my. You are a self important guy, aren't you? When will you stop
caring what I do for my own reasons? I have no intent to let you make my
decisions for me.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

"Cognitive Distortion" wrote in message
...
Can I jump in here as a complete n00b to HD DVD and BluRay players?
Thank you.

I don't intend to, nor can I justify, buying a $500 player to watch
movies. I don't play video games.

So for the average shmoe like me, married with a kid, who enjoys an
occasional netflix rental here and there ( i no longer buy movies
either ), is a $100 HD DVD player the way to go?

I honestly don't care - blue ray or hd dvd, as long as it works with
my new receiver and is $100 or $150 or hell $200 at the most.

Or is BluRay more for the aficianados?

The content on the disc is essentially the same. What is different is the
physical media that the content is put on. The HD DVD disc holds less
memory, but more than enough for any movie and one high-quality sound track
encoding, plus some extras. Blu-Ray has more memory capacity, and so can
hold multiple high-quality sound track encodings and more extras. Blu-Ray
can also transfer more data off of the disc and into the processor than HD
DVD can.

Blu-Ray is much more expensive than HD DVD. This will always be the case
because it costs more to make Blu-Ray drives because of licensing as well as
a few technical issues (lesser cause).

At this time, Blu-Ray has done an inferior job of utilizing the HD format.
It has done a poor job on many titles of transferring the video from the
master to the HD format. It has not utilized the extra capacity of the
disc, and so does not offer any additional features over the HD DVD format.
The most important issue with Blu-Ray, however, is that the specification
for Blu-Ray is not finished. The players on the shelf today conform to what
is known as "Profile 1.1" or "Profile 1.0". These specs detail what the
player has to have inside and how it works. For instance, Profile 1.0
players can't do picture in picture. Profile 1.1 players can - but only
sometimes with certain discs. There is an upcoming "Profile 2.0" standard,
but it isn't out yet. No one knows exactly if the discs that are produced
on Blu-Ray a year from now will work on the Blu-Ray players of today because
the specification is still not finished.

None of this is an issue with HD DVD. Any disc produced will play in any HD
DVD player with full functionality.

So, while Blu-Ray holds a technical edge, that edge is not being utilized
and what you buy today might not work with discs a year from now. Seem
shady? Well, it's not the first time that Sony has treated its customers
like trash. Look up Sony +rootkit in google if you aren't familiar with the
way they treat their customers. What does Sony have to do with Blu-Ray?
While there are a number of CE companies on the board for Blu-Ray, it is
pretty much directed by Sony.

There is a ton of info on the HD format wars. To learn mo

www.avsforum.com
www.engadgethd.com
www.engadget.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...l_disc_formats

To sum up: I would purchase the cheapo HD DVD player. At worst, you get a
decent player that continues to play your HD DVD movies and upscales SD DVDs
to 1080i for the price of a decent standalone upconverting DVD player (such
as an Oppo). It is not as if your HD DVDs will suddenly stop playing even
if HD DVD does die. In the best case scenario, you get the new standard for
optical disc media for $100.

steveo

PS - If I had to bet, I would bet on both formats being around indefinitely.