Verizon FIOS now in my Los Angeles area

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:38:41 GMT Wes Newell wrote:
| On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800, bigjim wrote:
|
| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios TV
| when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if cheaper
| thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and Fios.
|
| When you install any kind of fios, they automatically move your phone over
| to fios. No, they don't actually remove the copper, they just won't
| service it any longer. They swing your phone lines over to the fios
| interface box. Whether or not what they are doing is legal or not is
| another question. Just telling you what I was told by them when I told
| them a wanted to cancel my fios and go to DSL. The answer was "You can't
| do that once you have changed to fios".

Does that phone service still work for doing 56k digital and 33.6k dialup
access to wherever one might need to do that? I have heard vague reports
that this phone over FiOS is compressed digital that won't function in
that way.

Of course, do remember that when you are talking to people you are most
likely talking to someone who reads from a script. THEY can change it
back. They are just trying to lock you in and destroy the competitive
DSL market. Be insistive. Refuse to accept "no" as an answer and explain
to the person you are talking to that you know they are just reading from
a script and that you know the real answer is "yes", and that you also
know that they have not been trained to know how to deal with this.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:50:32 -0500 Matthew L. Martin wrote:
| Wes Newell wrote:
| On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800, bigjim wrote:
|
| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios TV
| when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if cheaper
| thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and Fios.
|
| When you install any kind of fios, they automatically move your phone over
| to fios. No, they don't actually remove the copper, they just won't
| service it any longer. They swing your phone lines over to the fios
| interface box. Whether or not what they are doing is legal or not is
| another question. Just telling you what I was told by them when I told
| them a wanted to cancel my fios and go to DSL. The answer was "You can't
| do that once you have changed to fios".
|
| I'm not certain that will hold up in all states. They would have to
| withdraw the tariff for DSL in Massachusetts before the PUC would let
| them get away with that. If the tariff is on the books, they have to
| supply and service it. The tariff for ISDN was removed in the last few
| years so they don't have to provide that to new customers anymore.

And what if they attempt to withdraw the tariff for DSL? What can we do
to fight that?

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800 wrote:

| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios
| TV when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if
| cheaper thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and
| Fios.

Verizon wants to remove the copper as soon as they can. While you can
get them to leave the existing copper alone today, in the future they
may be doing various tricks to get it removed.

In terms of technology, the fiber is certainly better. But in terms of
business, it is bad for the consumer and good for the company as they
get to lock you in. We still need to have some kind regulation or law
to be sure consumers have access to a wide variety of providers through
a common infrastructure (it is economically wasteful to build multiple
instances of infrastructure over the same location ... called "overbuild").

Remember the breakup of AT&T long ago? It was done the wrong way, though
it wasn't too obvious back then. That breakup divided things at the
boundary between local calls and long distance calls. IMHO, the way it
should have been done was divide things between a company that runs the
physical infrastructure (a regulated monopoly required to provide access
to that physical infrastructure on a fair basis, same price no matter who
is accessing it, in exchange for a guaranteed profit) and companies that
provide what utilizes that infrastructure (dial tone, internat packet
routing, multi channel audio/video entertainment, and dedicated link
services). I believe we should move towards that structure today.

And have you noticed that the pieces of the AT&T breakup are gathering
back together to screw the consumers once more?


Once again, poor old phil says: "The world would be a much better place
if I made all the decisions".

What a moron.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:50:32 -0500 Matthew L. Martin wrote:
| Wes Newell wrote:
| On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800, bigjim wrote:
|
| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios TV
| when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if cheaper
| thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and Fios.
|
| When you install any kind of fios, they automatically move your phone over
| to fios. No, they don't actually remove the copper, they just won't
| service it any longer. They swing your phone lines over to the fios
| interface box. Whether or not what they are doing is legal or not is
| another question. Just telling you what I was told by them when I told
| them a wanted to cancel my fios and go to DSL. The answer was "You can't
| do that once you have changed to fios".
|
| I'm not certain that will hold up in all states. They would have to
| withdraw the tariff for DSL in Massachusetts before the PUC would let
| them get away with that. If the tariff is on the books, they have to
| supply and service it. The tariff for ISDN was removed in the last few
| years so they don't have to provide that to new customers anymore.

And what if they attempt to withdraw the tariff for DSL? What can we do
to fight that?


On the off chance that you are serious, because the answer is flamingly
obvious, participate in the public comment period and put your concerns
before the PUC.

Do you *ever* think before you post?

Wait, I told that wrong:

Do you *ever* think?

There, that's better.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

Alan F wrote in
news:jVvYi.5447$b%[email protected]:


First of all, not everything on Fios is 1080i. The SD channels are
480i (but most are at full bandwidth), and the HD channels are 720p or
1080i, whatever the network or station puts out. There are no
broadcast or cable channels that are at 1080p in the US. You must have
met some new hire or marketing person who is confused by the technical
terms.

before you make a statement like this you need to check your facts. WFAA
CH 8 ABC in Dallas broadcasts in 1080P format.

Allan

Allan R. Batteiger wrote:
Alan F wrote in
news:jVvYi.5447$b%[email protected]:

First of all, not everything on Fios is 1080i. The SD channels are
480i (but most are at full bandwidth), and the HD channels are 720p or
1080i, whatever the network or station puts out. There are no
broadcast or cable channels that are at 1080p in the US. You must have
met some new hire or marketing person who is confused by the technical
terms.

before you make a statement like this you need to check your facts. WFAA
CH 8 ABC in Dallas broadcasts in 1080P format.

Allan

I know my facts. WFAA-DT is an ABC station which means it should be
broadcasting at 720p or more specifically, 720/60p (60p = 60 progressive
frames per second). However, according to the Dallas thread at
avsforum.com (and I vaguely recall reading this before), WFAA instead
broadcasts at 1080i (1080/60i) which means they cross-convert the ABC HD
feed. I suspect ABC and the knowledgeable Dallas viewers are not happy
about its because this imposes artifacts and degrades the ABC picture
quality. WFAA-DT has 3 sub-channels according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFAA. They are not doing a 1080p broadcast.

The ATSC broadcast standard does provide for a 1080/24p and a 1080/30p
format, but no one is using them for broadcast nor any cable channels
that I have heard. 1080/60p using MPEG-2 compression won't fit into the
6 MHz channel bandwidth, so that is why it is not part of the ATSC standard.

Alan F

On 8 Nov 2007 14:24:03 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800 wrote:

| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios
| TV when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if
| cheaper thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and
| Fios.

Verizon wants to remove the copper as soon as they can. While you can
get them to leave the existing copper alone today, in the future they
may be doing various tricks to get it removed.

In terms of technology, the fiber is certainly better. But in terms of
business, it is bad for the consumer and good for the company as they
get to lock you in. We still need to have some kind regulation or law
to be sure consumers have access to a wide variety of providers through
a common infrastructure (it is economically wasteful to build multiple
instances of infrastructure over the same location ... called "overbuild").

Remember the breakup of AT&T long ago? It was done the wrong way, though
it wasn't too obvious back then. That breakup divided things at the
boundary between local calls and long distance calls. IMHO, the way it
should have been done was divide things between a company that runs the
physical infrastructure (a regulated monopoly required to provide access
to that physical infrastructure on a fair basis, same price no matter who
is accessing it, in exchange for a guaranteed profit) and companies that
provide what utilizes that infrastructure (dial tone, internat packet
routing, multi channel audio/video entertainment, and dedicated link
services). I believe we should move towards that structure today.

And have you noticed that the pieces of the AT&T breakup are gathering
back together to screw the consumers once more?


The reasons that AT&T is gathering again is because long distance,
which is about all that was left to the original AT&T in the breakup,
Is disappearing. The local companies like Verizon really made out in
the breakup. They retained the local customer loop, local wiring and
switching and most of the intrastate infrastructure. AT&T even had to
stop manufacturing phones and also had to let the locals use the
interstate network and below market rates.
THumper

Allan R. Batteiger wrote:

Alan F wrote in
news:jVvYi.5447$b%[email protected]:


First of all, not everything on Fios is 1080i. The SD channels are
480i (but most are at full bandwidth), and the HD channels are 720p or
1080i, whatever the network or station puts out. There are no
broadcast or cable channels that are at 1080p in the US. You must have
met some new hire or marketing person who is confused by the technical
terms.


before you make a statement like this you need to check your facts. WFAA
CH 8 ABC in Dallas broadcasts in 1080P format.

Allan


Allen,

You got some bad information. There aren't ANY stations in the U.S. that
are broadcasting in 1080P. With the current 6 MHz bandwidth limitation
it just isn't possible.
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

writes:

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800 wrote:

| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios
| TV when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if
| cheaper thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and
| Fios.

Verizon wants to remove the copper as soon as they can. While you can
get them to leave the existing copper alone today, in the future they
may be doing various tricks to get it removed.

In terms of technology, the fiber is certainly better. But in terms of
business, it is bad for the consumer and good for the company as they
get to lock you in.

I don't agree.

I have Verizon copper now and Comcast coax cable.
If the FIOS guy shows up today, I'm going
to have FIOS instead of the copper or the Comcast coax.

If I was to switch to anything in the future it would
be back to the Comcast coax cable or something new.
The copper isn't viable anymore.

As far as competition, I don't understand.
Are you saying some other company is going to come
in and offer me phone services over the Version 4 wire
copper that is there now? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't see how I'm locked in.
I have 2 wide band companies to choose from.

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:59:39 -0800 wrote:

| You have to demand they do not mess with the copper wiring. In TX and
| NJ there have been complaints about this. By not bothering with Fios
| phone you will still have copper wiring.. I will probably get Fios
| TV when available but will keep regular phone and possiblry DSL if
| cheaper thanFios. I couldnttella speed difference between DSL and
| Fios.

Verizon wants to remove the copper as soon as they can. While you can
get them to leave the existing copper alone today, in the future they
may be doing various tricks to get it removed.

In terms of technology, the fiber is certainly better. But in terms of
business, it is bad for the consumer and good for the company as they
get to lock you in. We still need to have some kind regulation or law
to be sure consumers have access to a wide variety of providers through
a common infrastructure (it is economically wasteful to build multiple
instances of infrastructure over the same location ... called "overbuild").

I will admit to fiber (and digital phone service through coaxial cables)
having better wideband ISP capabilities and sound quality for voice
communications.

There is an issue of reliability during and after severe weather though.
As long as the telephone wires aren't downed too, traditional analog
phone service is able to operate for LONG periods powered by a switching
office standby generator after there is a neighborhood power failure.
Digital service only operates as long as standby power does, sometimes
only as long as a rechargeable battery at the household entry point.
Cell phone towers might be subject to standby power issues too and might
be subject to reduced availability resulting from high usage rates.