Memory cards for HD films

Nowadays we have two formats to store HD films: blue ray and HD-DVD. I
would like to ask if it will possible to store one of the films in any
of the two formats inside a 32 Gb memory card and watch it with a card
reader. I guess the bandwidth is critical here.
If all this is possible, why shall we need two disc formats? I guess
it can be replaced by low cost memory cards.
Please, let me know your point of view.

"LMartínez" wrote in message
ups.com...
Nowadays we have two formats to store HD films: blue ray and HD-DVD. I
would like to ask if it will possible to store one of the films in any
of the two formats inside a 32 Gb memory card and watch it with a card
reader. I guess the bandwidth is critical here.
If all this is possible, why shall we need two disc formats? I guess
it can be replaced by low cost memory cards.
Please, let me know your point of view.




a disc costs a couple of dollars at most to make - and cheaper all the time
find a 32 gig memory card for that price and you will have solved their
problem.



--
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:07:39 -0700 LMart?nez wrote:
| Nowadays we have two formats to store HD films: blue ray and HD-DVD. I
| would like to ask if it will possible to store one of the films in any
| of the two formats inside a 32 Gb memory card and watch it with a card
| reader. I guess the bandwidth is critical here.

You meant 32 GB (capital "B"), right?

Typically "B" is understood to be BYTES (8 bits, usually) and "b" is
understood to be bits (1/8 byte, usually). So "32 Gb" = "4 GB".

Whatever.

I've seen 16 GB cards (CF). If 32 GB is out now, great (I haven't been
looking). I know Samsung recently announced a 64 GB (I think it was "B")
flash chip. That could be the foundation for some rather big memory cards,
especially CF which can fit a few chips.

As for the bandwidth, I just ran some speed tests reading various memory
devices via a USB attached hub that has various card slots and 3 USB slots:

2 GB SD card: 9.281 MBps
2 GB CF card: 8.629 MBps (not sure why it is slower; I expected faster)
2 GB USB key: 11.508 MBps (probably won due to lack of conversion)

The speed is more than 3 times what is needed for HD (1080i30/60 or 720p60)
and is still enough even for 1080p60 if that ever comes about. I'd expect
the larger capacity ones to be at least as fast.

Most card readers attach via USB. CF is actually IDE and attachments that
connect it directly to IDE plus power are also available. I have also
seen a CF to SATA converter (I'd like to see an SDHC to SATA converter).


| If all this is possible, why shall we need two disc formats? I guess
| it can be replaced by low cost memory cards.
| Please, let me know your point of view.

The memory cards are expensive for a media to sell pre-recorded content on.
But other than that, I think it's a great idea. Now we can have a format
war between different memory card types :-)

CF is not really a good choice for the consumer because of the fragile
sockets and easily bent pins. SD (actually SDHC) would be the better
choice for a widely used medium.

Still, many people are happy with a video juke box made from hard disks.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:07:51 -0500, FDR wrote:

I just talked with a camera man from a local news station. He was using
(I believe) 8 Gig memory cards for his HD camera, that recorded 16
minutes of video/audio. The cost was $850 each. So there goes your
idea right out the window.

HD video in mpeg2 format only takes a max of about 8GB per hour. he
probably had a 2GB card, that can be bought today for $20 in several
different forms. The camera he uses probably uses a proprietary format
making the cost of cards ridiculous or he bought it a long time ago (in
electronic terms). 16GB flash drives are going for about $130 now. 1GB
flash is now about $10 but was over $50 not long ago. In a year or two I'm
sure that stick memory would be a decent option for HD. With hard drives
so cheap, I'm surprised I haven't seen just a hard drive HD recorder other
than the Tivo-HD on the market yet. Already having my own, I haven't
looked lately. Maybe there is.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

Wes Newell wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:07:51 -0500, FDR wrote:

I just talked with a camera man from a local news station. He was using
(I believe) 8 Gig memory cards for his HD camera, that recorded 16
minutes of video/audio. The cost was $850 each. So there goes your
idea right out the window.

HD video in mpeg2 format only takes a max of about 8GB per hour. he
probably had a 2GB card, that can be bought today for $20 in several
different forms. The camera he uses probably uses a proprietary format
making the cost of cards ridiculous or he bought it a long time ago (in
electronic terms). 16GB flash drives are going for about $130 now. 1GB
flash is now about $10 but was over $50 not long ago. In a year or two I'm
sure that stick memory would be a decent option for HD. With hard drives
so cheap, I'm surprised I haven't seen just a hard drive HD recorder other
than the Tivo-HD on the market yet. Already having my own, I haven't
looked lately. Maybe there is.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php


Here's a device which might be used as an hd recorder --

http://www.amazon.com/Neuros-MPEG-4-...2198841&sr=8-2
--

I expect the Hollywood studios may soon see the possibilities of
direct-to-stick hd releases, and that should lead to lower prices on
flash memory.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Wes Newell wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:07:51 -0500, FDR wrote:
I just talked with a camera man from a local news station. He was using
(I believe) 8 Gig memory cards for his HD camera, that recorded 16
minutes of video/audio. The cost was $850 each. So there goes your
idea right out the window.
HD video in mpeg2 format only takes a max of about 8GB per hour. he
probably had a 2GB card

I doubt very much that the camera recorded in MPEG2 format. If the memory
cards were 8GB and lasted for 16 minutes, that translates to 512MB/minute
or about 68 mbit/sec.

That sounds like some kind of semi-raw form to me. It makes sense that a
camcorder would do that, leaving compression to studio gear.

Professional video gear seems to have had approximately that timeframe per
cartridge of whatever since the days of U-Matic portapacks.

Hey, if we were still thinking like the guys who did quad did, we'd be
recording 68 mbit per frame, rather than per second! ;-)

The rest of your message, regarding the cards likely being a proprietary
format & etc., is almost certainly the case.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:07:51 -0500 FDR wrote:
| the dog from that film you saw wrote:
| "LMart?nez" wrote in message
| ups.com...
| Nowadays we have two formats to store HD films: blue ray and HD-DVD. I
| would like to ask if it will possible to store one of the films in any
| of the two formats inside a 32 Gb memory card and watch it with a card
| reader. I guess the bandwidth is critical here.
| If all this is possible, why shall we need two disc formats? I guess
| it can be replaced by low cost memory cards.
| Please, let me know your point of view.
|
|
|
|
| a disc costs a couple of dollars at most to make - and cheaper all the time
| find a 32 gig memory card for that price and you will have solved their
| problem.
|
|
|
|
| I just talked with a camera man from a local news station. He was using
| (I believe) 8 Gig memory cards for his HD camera, that recorded 16
| minutes of video/audio. The cost was $850 each. So there goes your
| idea right out the window.

He overpaid for his memory cards. Even the most expensive card format,
Compact Flash, does not cost that much:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820171254
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820171255
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820171256
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ctFlash.h tml
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ctFlash .html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ctFlash .html

16GB for $300 or $270 ... and dropping.

Also, 8 GB USB keys at Walmart for $80.

Of course the memory cards are still way more expensive than blank discs.
But they are also more reliable (even more so if you go with SD or the
like). Each has its advantages. Discs are certainly good for longer
term mass storage (but hard drives may also match this). But for ENG
purpose, a memory card is a very good choice (but he obviously has an
overly expensive supplier).

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:02:13 -0800, heremon wrote:


Here's a device which might be used as an hd recorder --

http://www.amazon.com/Neuros-MPEG-4-...dp/B000HLZKH0?
ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1192198841&sr=8-2

It won't record HD.



--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

wrote:
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:07:51 -0500 FDR wrote:
| the dog from that film you saw wrote:
| "LMart?nez" wrote in message
| ups.com...
| Nowadays we have two formats to store HD films: blue ray and HD-DVD. I
| would like to ask if it will possible to store one of the films in any
| of the two formats inside a 32 Gb memory card and watch it with a card
| reader. I guess the bandwidth is critical here.
| If all this is possible, why shall we need two disc formats? I guess
| it can be replaced by low cost memory cards.
| Please, let me know your point of view.
|
|
|
|
| a disc costs a couple of dollars at most to make - and cheaper all the time
| find a 32 gig memory card for that price and you will have solved their
| problem.
|
|
|
|
| I just talked with a camera man from a local news station. He was using
| (I believe) 8 Gig memory cards for his HD camera, that recorded 16
| minutes of video/audio. The cost was $850 each. So there goes your
| idea right out the window.

He overpaid for his memory cards. Even the most expensive card format,
Compact Flash, does not cost that much:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820171254
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820171255
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820171256
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ctFlash.h tml
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ctFlash .html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ctFlash .html

16GB for $300 or $270 ... and dropping.

Also, 8 GB USB keys at Walmart for $80.

Of course the memory cards are still way more expensive than blank discs.
But they are also more reliable (even more so if you go with SD or the
like).

You, of course, have *not* given any reference that could back up that
claim. You probably didn't even make the effort to find one. After all,
your opinion is the same as fact, NOT!!

Each has its advantages. Discs are certainly good for longer
term mass storage (but hard drives may also match this).

There are a great many in the archive storage industry that don't
believe that. You can look it up.

But for ENG
purpose, a memory card is a very good choice (but he obviously has an
overly expensive supplier).


The major reason for using a memory card in ENG is for simplicity of
design. There are *NO* consumer memory cards that can record
uncompressed HD data rates. You can look it up.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:44:06 -0500 Matthew L. Martin wrote:

| Of course the memory cards are still way more expensive than blank discs.
| But they are also more reliable (even more so if you go with SD or the
| like).
|
| You, of course, have *not* given any reference that could back up that
| claim. You probably didn't even make the effort to find one. After all,
| your opinion is the same as fact, NOT!!

No one has to give references to back up things they say. Most people
here do not do so most of the time. You happen to do so the least.

If someone says something and does not back up up, feel free to just not
believe them and be silent. Or feel free to dispute what they say and
ask for something to back it up (and just don't believe them until they
decide to back it up). Or feel free to just say it is wrong.


| Each has its advantages. Discs are certainly good for longer
| term mass storage (but hard drives may also match this).
|
| There are a great many in the archive storage industry that don't
| believe that. You can look it up.

That industry has been debating it well past the lifetime of some media.
I looked it up long ago.


| But for ENG
| purpose, a memory card is a very good choice (but he obviously has an
| overly expensive supplier).
|
|
| The major reason for using a memory card in ENG is for simplicity of
| design. There are *NO* consumer memory cards that can record
| uncompressed HD data rates. You can look it up.

That depends on the level of HD involved. But as established in another
thread, compression is relatively cheap. So why not do that? If consumer
grade compression is under $250, broadcast grade could be done in under
$1000. ENG cameras are a lot more than $1000. You can look it up.

But if you really want to record uncompressed and need the high data rates,
just use multiple cards in parallel. I think 3 of the Extreme IV cards will
do the trick for for 1080p24. Or do you want 1080p60?

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|