120Hz Worth The Cost? And the Samsung LNT4671F

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:28:46 -0400, "Mark A"
wrote:

That is what I suggested. What do you think I suggested?

Using 2 TV's side by side. One with the 120Hz feature, one without.

The only difference is that the person judging the picture
should not know what the setting is when they do the evaluation.

Fair enough, but I'm getting the impression you've never seen 120Hz in
action. The effect is readily apparent.

A_C

"DrinkyBanjo" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"SmilyFace" wrote in message
et...
120Hz is a great advancement. On the other hand Samsung is still a bit
of a hit-or-miss proposition.

I have the LN-T4665 and was very happy with the picture. I had no issues
with any blurring or anything like that and would recommend it.

However, I'm currently dealing with Samsung as I have issues with it
(originally no picture and now after it was 'fixed' the picture is so dark
it's barely watchable) and their customer service absolutely sucks. I've
been dealing with them for about three weeks and I have initiated every
single communication up until now.

Absolutely terrible. I also have to wait until after the 2nd repair
before I qualify for a replacement model. This is after waiting two weeks
for a part they could not get.

Tim

I noticed no one posted on any other Samsung CS stories. Have others have a
positive experience or am I the only one here who had to use their Customer
Service?

"DrinkyBanjo" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I noticed no one posted on any other Samsung CS stories. Have others have
a positive experience or am I the only one here who had to use their
Customer Service?

Some people have completely unrealistic expectations about warranty service.
Once the retailer is not able to exchange a defective item (usually 30 days
after sale), then the manufacturer assumes all responsibility for the
warranty service. Very few manufacturers will replace an item before they
attempt to fix it. I once had my Sony TV in the Sony repair shop for about
one month. That is tough on people with only one HD TV, but it is fairly
normal.

"Mark A" wrote in message
...
"DrinkyBanjo" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I noticed no one posted on any other Samsung CS stories. Have others
have a positive experience or am I the only one here who had to use their
Customer Service?

Some people have completely unrealistic expectations about warranty
service. Once the retailer is not able to exchange a defective item
(usually 30 days after sale), then the manufacturer assumes all
responsibility for the warranty service. Very few manufacturers will
replace an item before they attempt to fix it. I once had my Sony TV in
the Sony repair shop for about one month. That is tough on people with
only one HD TV, but it is fairly normal.

It will be one month since I first called next week. I have received one
phone call from Samsung and that was today.

Am I being unrealistic? My picture still sucks.

"DrinkyBanjo" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Mark A" wrote in message
...
"DrinkyBanjo" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I noticed no one posted on any other Samsung CS stories. Have others
have a positive experience or am I the only one here who had to use
their Customer Service?

Some people have completely unrealistic expectations about warranty
service. Once the retailer is not able to exchange a defective item
(usually 30 days after sale), then the manufacturer assumes all
responsibility for the warranty service. Very few manufacturers will
replace an item before they attempt to fix it. I once had my Sony TV in
the Sony repair shop for about one month. That is tough on people with
only one HD TV, but it is fairly normal.

It will be one month since I first called next week. I have received one
phone call from Samsung and that was today.

Am I being unrealistic? My picture still sucks.



I usurped Samsung support and contacted BestBuy. Their tech came out today
and fixed the TV with Samsung support. They had to go into the TV setup
(not the picture settings etc) and change it from 8 Bit to 10 Bit. Why the
original tech did not do this I'll never know but the TV is now fixed.

Tim

I too was torn between the samsung 4665f and the 4671. I watch sports,
network hd, and dvds (non blue ray or hd). Looked at the sony xbr 3 & 4 (not
5), and sharp 81 series. Watched various video materials in store and at
various stores. Finally settled on the sammy 4665F. In my opinion it has the
best picture for the money. The contrast and color is outstanding. I could
not consistently see the difference in 120hz vs. 60. The sammy was $1998
(plus tax). Could not justify $500 and more for the other sets. I would
rather spend the extra cash on other items. Just my thoughts .... the
4671and sonys are nice sets too.


"Gary Brown" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We are getting an HDTV for our daughter for graduation. She had
been considering the Samsung LNT4065F but is now considering
the LNT4671F for its larger screen and 120Hz display. I am still
watching on a 12" Muntz and have no real experience with the big
screen LCDs. Is 120Hz worthwhile (see below) and is the LNT4671F
a good choice? Budget is $3000 with the balance to go to a player or
sound system. Source will likely be Amazon. Is there a better one?

She and her roommate are movie buffs and will watch 5 or 6 movies
on DVD at a sitting. She is particularly fond of Lord Of The Rings
and similar "spectaculars" so image quality is important. I expect she
will ultimately get a HD DVD or Blue-Ray player but for the time being
will be upconverting DVDs. TV will be cable (Boston is Comcast?).

Thanks,
Gary

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:04:23 -0400 Gary Brown wrote:

| We are getting an HDTV for our daughter for graduation. She had
| been considering the Samsung LNT4065F but is now considering
| the LNT4671F for its larger screen and 120Hz display. I am still
| watching on a 12" Muntz and have no real experience with the big
| screen LCDs. Is 120Hz worthwhile (see below) and is the LNT4671F
| a good choice? Budget is $3000 with the balance to go to a player or
| sound system. Source will likely be Amazon. Is there a better one?

What is 120 Hz when speaking of LCD? Is it upconverting 60 Hz to 120 Hz
and then feeding that to the LCD circuits so it updates pixels twice as
much but still with the same content? Or does it accept real 120 fps
video content that some future HD player might be able to produce?

What is good in LCD is the ability to update the pixels quickly as the
video arrives, without delay. Frame rates don't have the same meaning
in LCD as they do in CRT. Plasma, DLP, and OLED could be different but
I have not dealt with them, yet (other than finding I did not like the
displays of Plasma as much).

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

On 5 Oct 2007 13:36:25 GMT, wrote:
....
What is 120 Hz when speaking of LCD? Is it upconverting 60 Hz to 120 Hz
and then feeding that to the LCD circuits so it updates pixels twice as
much but still with the same content? Or does it accept real 120 fps
video content that some future HD player might be able to produce?

It is upsampling the frame rate. In this case from interlaced 60Hz to
120Hz preogressive. It estimates the motion in the picture and build
one intermediate frame between each input field.
(In "PAL land" we get 50Hz input upsampled to 100Hz.)

The advantage is that, with a static LCD backlight, each moving object
is displayed only half the time at each postiion. It thereby reduces
the bluring that is caused by image retension in our eyes.

The effect can be seen most obvious with (rather fast) scrolling text
like new rolls. The text is then sharper.

What is good in LCD is the ability to update the pixels quickly as the
video arrives, without delay.

That does not include these upsamling TV models. The delay is quite
large, like 60-80ms.

Frame rates don't have the same meaning
in LCD as they do in CRT. ...

Correct, but even if LCD:s (generally) don't blink, low frame rate in
the source material is still a problem.
100-120Hz TV:s does not automatically upsample film material so that
the motion gets smooth. Special processing is needed to have it create
the 3 intermediate frames that is necessary to go from (in Europe)
25Hz broadcasted frame rate in the _content_ to 100Hz displayed frame
rate. My Toshiba doesn't seem to do that but it still smooths the
motion to a certain degree by upsampling the 50Hz input field rate to
100Hz frame rate, though there are 2 intermediate frames with the same
content and only 1 of the 3 intermediate frames shows moved content.

/Jan

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:04:23 -0400 Gary Brown
wrote:

| We are getting an HDTV for our daughter for graduation. She had
| been considering the Samsung LNT4065F but is now considering
| the LNT4671F for its larger screen and 120Hz display. I am still
| watching on a 12" Muntz and have no real experience with the big
| screen LCDs. Is 120Hz worthwhile (see below) and is the LNT4671F
| a good choice? Budget is $3000 with the balance to go to a player or
| sound system. Source will likely be Amazon. Is there a better one?

What is 120 Hz when speaking of LCD? Is it upconverting 60 Hz to 120 Hz
and then feeding that to the LCD circuits so it updates pixels twice as
much but still with the same content? Or does it accept real 120 fps
video content that some future HD player might be able to produce?

What is good in LCD is the ability to update the pixels quickly as the
video arrives, without delay. Frame rates don't have the same meaning
in LCD as they do in CRT. Plasma, DLP, and OLED could be different but
I have not dealt with them, yet (other than finding I did not like the
displays of Plasma as much).

See this: http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/707gear/

Not a perfect article, but generally lays out some of the approaches being
used.