technodumbo

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Are you serious?

He is.

Surely I have upset enough of you?? To be perfectly
honest with you,I presumed you were all aged around your thirties?

I think the average age in here is probably 35-40. I'd say there's
probably a fair distribution from 20 to 75 ?

Sometimes 6th formers and students creep in but we soon spot 'em. They are
allowed to stay if they behave and keep quiet, but alas they often don't.

Would anyone like to admit to being over 75?

Bill

In article . com,
wrote:
*News is as follows:- I have installed my new aerial and
coax etc etc,and re-scanned my television. The result being as
follows:-Clearer picture,and 86 channels to date. Thanks all for your
advice,much appreciated.

You see? All you need is to get your commas and apostrophes in the
right place and your TV reception will be perfect. :-)

Rod.

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Would anyone like to admit to being over 75?

Imperial or metric?

Rod.

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
The explanation I've given you will annoy some members of this group, who
will feel that I have simplied to the point of inaccuracy, but I too was
once a teacher and I know that knowledge has to come in bite-sized
chunks!

Not at all. Even with 38 years experience in broadcast engineering, I
always
prefer explanations in Plain English whenever possible, and yours makes
better
sense to me than some I have seen in books.

Thank you. Now I'll tell you what happened last week.

When we install a new TV system in a block of flats we always prepare a
leaflet for the residents. The leaflet is tailored to each job, but the
basic material is re-used and has been gone over many times to make sure it
is as clear as possible. The target audience is, of course, the ordinary
public, with an above-average number of elderly people.

Last week a leaflet went out to all the flats in a block. Here it is,
between two rows of stars:

****************

I'm Bill Wright. The xxxxxxx has asked our company to replace the TV
distribution system in your building. This leaflet is intended to clarify
things for you as much as possible, and also to get some information for me
about your requirements. Please return the enclosed questionnaire as soon as
possible.

For those of you worried about the new TV system and the switch to digital,
please remember that if you are quite happy with the TV channels you can get
now there is no need for you to do anything until 2011. There is no need for
you to buy digital equipment or anything else at present. All that will
happen is that we will fit a new TV socket for you and your reception will
then be better.

Please read this leaflet carefully. It has been prepared specifically for
the residents of xxxxxxxx House and the contents are tailored to the TV
reception possibilities available to you.



Analogue terrestrial television

This is the fancy name for the ordinary TV channels, BBC-1, BBC-2, ITV-1,
and Channel 4. This is the television you have always had and have now.
Analogue TV will end in 2011.

As you probably know, analogue television reception is very poor in the
immediate area. The reason is that xxxxxxxxxxx House is on very low ground,
with a substantial hillside between it and the transmitter at xxxxxxxx. The
trees also have a seriously detrimental effect. It would be extremely
expensive to erect an aerial mast high enough to get perfect analogue
reception, and it would look terrible, so we have installed an aerial and
mast which represents a sensible compromise between cost and appearance on
the one hand and reception quality on the other. The reasons for taking this
attitude to analogue reception are as follows:

(a) Analogue TV will be turned off in less than four years, so money spent
on it now will not give good value, long term.

(b) There is a better solution available to you now: the use of satellite.

So if you are still dissatisfied with the quality of your TV picture after
we have connected your TV set to the new distribution system the only answer
is for you to use satellite.



Channel Five

There is no possibility of receiving analogue Channel Five at xxxxxxxxxx
House. We suggest that if you want Channel Five you receive it via
satellite.





Digital terrestrial television

This is 'digital television through an aerial' - the television service that
will take over when analogue is switched off. Digital terrestrial television
is being marketed as 'Freeview' - not to be confused with Freesat (see the
satellite section below).

There is a problem with digital terrestrial TV in xxxxxxxx. Because of the
shortage of channels during the present period of dual analogue/digital
transmissions it is not possible to transmit the digital channels from
xxxxxxxxxx in the direction of xxxxxxxx. This is because to do so would
interfere with reception from the xxxxxx relay station, which is just up the
road from xxxxxxxx House. Unfortunately xxxxxxxxxx House is in the 'dead
zone' that this causes, so digital terrestrial television is not available.
This problem isn't all that unusual, by the way. 25% of the UK population
cannot receive Freeview for one reason or another. The situation will not
change until 2011. For this reason, if you are keen to have extra channels
you will need to get them via satellite.



Satellite television

It is important to understand that the use of satellite reception does not
mean that you have to subscribe to Sky.

xxxxxxxxxxx House is in a desperately bad place for ordinary TV reception.
At one time there was no alternative other than putting up with it, but
nowadays satellite reception can solve the problem. Because of these
reception problems you should think seriously about converting to satellite
if you are at all dissatisfied with your reception quality.

You can subscribe to Sky if you wish, but the alternative is to use Freesat,
which does not have a subscription.

If you want Sky or Freesat I suggest you wait until the new TV system has
been installed, then contact Sky or another supplier. The new TV system
simply replaces the satellite dish. It's up to you to decide which services
you would like and to obtain the set-top box.



Freesat (as it is now)

Freesat has been set up to cater for people who would like a wide choice of
digital channels without paying a subscription. There is no subscription but
the system is operated by Sky. Viewers need a Sky set-top box. At the time
of writing the cost of the set top box is £150. Instead of a Sky payment
card there is a Freesat card. This costs £20, and lasts indefinitely. There
are no subscription charges. Freesat has channels such as BBC3, BBC4, ITV2,
ITV3, and so on. Freesat is a good choice if you don't want to subscribe to
Sky at the moment but think you might do later.

We can organise Sky and Freesat installations for you if required, or you
can contact Sky, Freesat, or any local satellite installer. Remember that
you will not need a dish, just the set top box.



Freesat (as it will be next year)

The BBC is leading a move to provide a Freesat service that is completely
independent of Sky. The advantage of this to you is that you will not need a
Sky satellite set-top box, just a 'Free to Air' satellite set top box, which
will only cost about £70. It is expected that dedicated Freesat recorders
will be available, similar to Sky+ ones.



Here's an extract from a press handout about BBC Freesat.



The BBC and ITV have confirmed plans to launch a rival to BSkyB's 'Freesat
from Sky' offering. The new service - also to be called Freesat - will
target the estimated 25% of homes unable to receive Freeview Digital
terrestrial.
Freesat, will be the first satellite rival to Sky since the demise of
British Satellite Broadcasting in the 1990s.

Freesat will allow the BBC and ITV to supply their services directly to
consumers without the broadcasters having to pay Sky to encrypt their
programmes. The launch date will be March 2008.

Freesat will enable people to access all BBC, ITV services, other free
channels, along with radio services via a satellite dish. Approximately a
quarter of TV viewers live outside the Freeview coverage area.

Freesat will help provide a free Public Service platform for both radio and
TV broadcasters in the United Kingdom, providing a far cheaper and more
Public Service option to the Sky Digital platform



So, if you are in no hurry to get the extra channels, and the analogue TV
picture quality is acceptable to you, one option would be to do nothing for
the time being, and once BBC Freesat is launched buy a set top box for it.



Radio reception

The new distribution system will provide reception of VHF FM radio and DAB
digital radio. The aerial socket on your wall will have a connector for
radio.



The Aerial sockets in your living room and bedroom

The existing sockets will be replaced by new ones that have connectors for
terrestrial TV, radio, and satellite. Both sockets (living room and bedroom)
will provide all these types of reception.



The cables in the walls

We intend to re-use the existing cables in the walls because this will save
a lot of money and avoid a lot of disruption. The cables run from the loft
that is above the front entrance to the flats. There is one cable to each
living room and one cable to each bedroom, making a total of 24. Of these 24
cables 16 are good quality and 8 are poor quality. (Don't ask me why!) The
poor quality ones will work well enough for terrestrial TV but might not be
good enough for satellite. So we intend to test every cable and make a note
of any that will not work perfectly for satellite. If the resident requires
satellite the cable will be replaced. Replacement cables will add to the
total cost and will have to run externally, so they will only be installed
where necessary. We are hoping that the cheap cables run to bedrooms where
satellite use is less likely, but there's no economic way of finding out
until we fit the new sockets.



Sky+

As well as the ordinary Sky set-top box, Sky also offers a special satellite
receiver called 'Sky+'. This is actually two receivers and a video recorder
all in the same unit. Sky+ is a very convenient way of recording TV
programmes, and it's very easy to use. Because the Sky+ box has two
satellite receivers built in it needs two connections to the TV distribution
system. So if you want Sky+ or Sky HD please say 'yes' to the 'second living
room connection' question in the enclosed questionnaire. Note that the cost
of the second connection will be charged directly to you, and will be £96 +
VAT (=£112.80). The second cable will be fixed externally.

You must subscribe to Sky to use a Sky+ receiver. The non-Sky alternative is
a PVR (Personal Video Recorder), which operates in much the same way as a
Sky+ receiver.



Extra TV sockets in other rooms

If you would like an aerial socket in another room (the kitchen for
instance) please say 'yes' to the 'second living room connection' question
in the enclosed questionnaire. Note that the cost of the extra connection
will be charged directly to you, and will be £96 + VAT (=£112.80). The
second cable will be fixed externally. If the outlet is not on an external
wall there might be some extra cost for internal trunking.



Future requirements

The equipment in the loft that makes the whole system work will have a total
of 36 outputs. This is 12 for the living rooms, 12 for the bedrooms, and 12
spare. The spare ones will be available for Sky+ feeds and sockets in
kitchens etc.



The questionnaire

Please return the enclosed questionnaire in the envelope provided. If you
are unsure about anything ring me. I'll be happy to discuss your concerns or
requirements.



Regards


Bill Wright



***************



Anyone still with me? OK, well two days after the leaflet went out a
resident rung me, and she played hell. She said "I don't what what you think
you're doing bombarding us with mumbo-jumbo like that! How the hell do you
think ordinary people can understand that twaddle?"

She went on like this for quite a while, and she was adamant that the
leaflet was incomprehensible. After a while she calmed down, and I said that
it was hard for us to see the thing from the public's point of view, so it
would be helpful if someone like her would go though a leaflet and point out
things that weren't clear. She said that she's be prepared to do it, and
that she had experience in such things. It turned out that she works at a
university preparing administrative documents. So she's clearly no dummy.

I'm completely at a loss with this. I can't see how I can make the thing
clearer.



What do you think?



Bill

"Marky P" wrote in message
...

Marky P, 35 year old male, takes people to hospital.

They have heart attacks when they see his glue mounted aerials . . .

Bill

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Would anyone like to admit to being over 75?

Imperial or metric?

Circumference in inches

Bill

On Sep 21, 12:17 am, "Bill Wright"
wrote:
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message

.. .

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
The explanation I've given you will annoy some members of this group, who
will feel that I have simplied to the point of inaccuracy, but I too was
once a teacher and I know that knowledge has to come in bite-sized
chunks!

Not at all. Even with 38 years experience in broadcast engineering, I
always
prefer explanations in Plain English whenever possible, and yours makes
better
sense to me than some I have seen in books.

Thank you. Now I'll tell you what happened last week.

When we install a new TV system in a block of flats we always prepare a
leaflet for the residents. The leaflet is tailored to each job, but the
basic material is re-used and has been gone over many times to make sure it
is as clear as possible. The target audience is, of course, the ordinary
public, with an above-average number of elderly people.

Last week a leaflet went out to all the flats in a block. Here it is,
between two rows of stars:

****************

I'm Bill Wright. The xxxxxxx has asked our company to replace the TV
distribution system in your building. This leaflet is intended to clarify
things for you as much as possible, and also to get some information for me
about your requirements. Please return the enclosed questionnaire as soon as
possible.

For those of you worried about the new TV system and the switch to digital,
please remember that if you are quite happy with the TV channels you can get
now there is no need for you to do anything until 2011. There is no need for
you to buy digital equipment or anything else at present. All that will
happen is that we will fit a new TV socket for you and your reception will
then be better.

Please read this leaflet carefully. It has been prepared specifically for
the residents of xxxxxxxx House and the contents are tailored to the TV
reception possibilities available to you.

Analogue terrestrial television

This is the fancy name for the ordinary TV channels, BBC-1, BBC-2, ITV-1,
and Channel 4. This is the television you have always had and have now.
Analogue TV will end in 2011.

As you probably know, analogue television reception is very poor in the
immediate area. The reason is that xxxxxxxxxxx House is on very low ground,
with a substantial hillside between it and the transmitter at xxxxxxxx. The
trees also have a seriously detrimental effect. It would be extremely
expensive to erect an aerial mast high enough to get perfect analogue
reception, and it would look terrible, so we have installed an aerial and
mast which represents a sensible compromise between cost and appearance on
the one hand and reception quality on the other. The reasons for taking this
attitude to analogue reception are as follows:

(a) Analogue TV will be turned off in less than four years, so money spent
on it now will not give good value, long term.

(b) There is a better solution available to you now: the use of satellite.

So if you are still dissatisfied with the quality of your TV picture after
we have connected your TV set to the new distribution system the only answer
is for you to use satellite.

Channel Five

There is no possibility of receiving analogue Channel Five at xxxxxxxxxx
House. We suggest that if you want Channel Five you receive it via
satellite.

Digital terrestrial television

This is 'digital television through an aerial' - the television service that
will take over when analogue is switched off. Digital terrestrial television
is being marketed as 'Freeview' - not to be confused with Freesat (see the
satellite section below).

There is a problem with digital terrestrial TV in xxxxxxxx. Because of the
shortage of channels during the present period of dual analogue/digital
transmissions it is not possible to transmit the digital channels from
xxxxxxxxxx in the direction of xxxxxxxx. This is because to do so would
interfere with reception from the xxxxxx relay station, which is just up the
road from xxxxxxxx House. Unfortunately xxxxxxxxxx House is in the 'dead
zone' that this causes, so digital terrestrial television is not available.
This problem isn't all that unusual, by the way. 25% of the UK population
cannot receive Freeview for one reason or another. The situation will not
change until 2011. For this reason, if you are keen to have extra channels
you will need to get them via satellite.

Satellite television

It is important to understand that the use of satellite reception does not
mean that you have to subscribe to Sky.

xxxxxxxxxxx House is in a desperately bad place for ordinary TV reception.
At one time there was no alternative other than putting up with it, but
nowadays satellite reception can solve the problem. Because of these
reception problems you should think seriously about converting to satellite
if you are at all dissatisfied with your reception quality.

You can subscribe to Sky if you wish, but the alternative is to use Freesat,
which does not have a subscription.

If you want Sky or Freesat I suggest you wait until the new TV system has
been installed, then contact Sky or another supplier. The new TV system
simply replaces the satellite dish. It's up to you to decide which services
you would like and to obtain the set-top box.

Freesat (as it is now)

Freesat has been set up to cater for people who would like a wide choice of
digital channels without paying a subscription. There is no subscription but
the system is operated by Sky. Viewers need a Sky set-top box. At the time
of writing the cost of the set top box is £150. Instead of a Sky payment
card there is a Freesat card. This costs £20, and lasts indefinitely. There
are no subscription charges. Freesat has channels such as BBC3, BBC4, ITV2,
ITV3, and so on. Freesat is a good choice if you don't want to subscribe to
Sky at the moment but think you might do later.

We can organise Sky and Freesat installations for you if required, or you
can contact Sky, Freesat, or any local satellite installer. Remember that
you will not need a dish, just the set top box.

Freesat (as it will be next year)

The BBC is leading a move to provide a Freesat service that is completely
independent of Sky. The advantage of this to you is that you will not need a
Sky satellite set-top box, just a 'Free to Air' satellite set top box, which
will only cost about £70. It is expected that dedicated Freesat recorders
will be available, similar to Sky+ ones.

Here's an extract from a press handout about BBC Freesat.

The BBC and ITV have confirmed plans to launch a rival to BSkyB's 'Freesat
from Sky' offering. The new service - also to be called Freesat - will
target the estimated 25% of homes unable to receive Freeview Digital
terrestrial.
Freesat, will be the first satellite rival to Sky since the demise of
British Satellite Broadcasting in the 1990s.

Freesat will allow the BBC and ITV to supply their services directly to
consumers without the broadcasters having to pay Sky to encrypt their
programmes. The launch date will be March 2008.

Freesat will enable people to access all BBC, ITV services, other free
channels, along with radio services via a satellite dish. Approximately a
quarter of TV viewers live outside the Freeview coverage area.

Freesat will help provide a free Public Service platform for both radio and
TV broadcasters in the United Kingdom, providing a far cheaper and more
Public Service option to the Sky Digital platform

So, if you are in no hurry to get the extra channels, and the analogue TV
picture quality is acceptable to you, one option would be to do nothing for
the time being, and once BBC Freesat is launched buy a set top box for it.

Radio reception

The new distribution system will provide reception of VHF FM radio and DAB
digital radio. The aerial socket on your wall will have a connector for
radio.

The Aerial sockets in your living room and bedroom

The existing sockets will be replaced by new ones that have connectors for
terrestrial TV, radio, and satellite. Both sockets (living room and bedroom)
will provide all these types of reception.

The cables in the walls

We intend to re-use the existing cables in the walls because this will save
a lot of money and avoid a lot of disruption. The cables run from the loft
that is above the front entrance to the flats. There is one cable to each
living room and one cable to each bedroom, making a total of 24. Of these 24
cables 16 are good quality and 8 are poor quality. (Don't ask me why!) The
poor quality ones will work well enough for terrestrial TV but might not be
good enough for satellite. So we intend to test every cable and make a note
of any that will not work perfectly for satellite. If the resident requires
satellite the cable will be replaced. Replacement cables will add to the
total cost and will have to run externally, so they will only be installed
where necessary. We are hoping that the cheap cables run to bedrooms where
satellite use is less likely, but there's no economic way of finding out
until we fit the new sockets.

Sky+

As well as the ordinary Sky set-top box, Sky also offers a special satellite
receiver called 'Sky+'. This is actually two receivers and a video recorder
all in the same unit. Sky+ is a very convenient way of recording TV
programmes, and it's very easy to use. Because the Sky+ box has two
satellite receivers built in it needs two connections to the TV distribution
system. So if you want Sky+ or Sky HD please say 'yes' to the 'second living
room connection' question in the enclosed questionnaire. Note that the cost
of the second connection will be charged directly to you, and will be £96 +
VAT (=£112.80). The second cable will be fixed externally.

You must subscribe to Sky to use a Sky+ receiver. The non-Sky alternative is
a PVR (Personal Video Recorder), which operates in much the same way as a
Sky+ receiver.

Extra TV sockets in other rooms

If you would like an aerial socket in another room (the kitchen for
instance) please say 'yes' to the 'second living room connection' question
in the enclosed questionnaire. Note that the cost of the extra connection
will be charged directly to you, and will be £96 + VAT (=£112.80). The
second cable will be fixed externally. If the outlet is not on an external
wall there might be some extra cost for internal trunking.

Future requirements

The equipment in the loft that makes the whole system work will have a total
of 36 outputs. This is 12 for the living rooms, 12 for the bedrooms, and 12
spare. The spare ones will be available for Sky+ feeds and sockets in
kitchens etc.

The questionnaire

Please return the enclosed questionnaire in the envelope provided. If you
are unsure about anything ring me. I'll be happy to discuss your concerns or
requirements.

Regards

Bill Wright

***************

Anyone still with me? OK, well two days after the leaflet went out a
resident rung me, and she played hell. She said "I don't what what you think
you're doing bombarding us with mumbo-jumbo like that! How the hell do you
think ordinary people can understand that twaddle?"

She went on like this for quite a while, and she was adamant that the
leaflet was incomprehensible. After a while she calmed down, and I said that
it was hard for us to see the thing from the public's point of view, so it
would be helpful if someone like her would go though a leaflet and point out
things that weren't clear. She said that she's be prepared to do it, and
that she had experience in such things. It turned out that she works at a
university preparing administrative documents. So she's clearly no dummy.

I'm completely at a loss with this. I can't see how I can make the thing
clearer.

What do you think?

Bill

I tell you what I think.Next time she calls make some excuse about a
bad telephone line,make crackle noises down the phones handset then
hang up!! Job done. By the way i look forward to seeing any of you
face to face.Only jesting. I may just have to pop in again,just to see
how you are all getting on. This has been a challenging yet refreshing
change in my daily schedule.Maybe I can incorporate it into one of my
lessons? Goodnight all .

On Sep 20, 11:33 pm, Marky P
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:33:29 -0700, wrote:
On Sep 20, 9:57 pm, Dave Farrance
wrote:
wrote:
Hello Dave. First and foremost many thanks on your advice and help. I
do appreciate the fact you have refrained from pointing out any
grammatical errors I have made. If I do ever use the computer to
type,obviously I take time to plan and set out the content. Otherwise
i use it for research. I have a few close pals with instant message
accounts and I can only explain my poor literacy skills as sheer
laziness. When you spend all day having to be 150% correct, it's nice
to be able to just Waffle" as it were, and not worry.
Anyhow, thankyou once again, I am just off up into the
loft to try this new aerial out. To all others reading this ....Do not
worry, If it works, I need not come here to tell you. Deal??? Regards
Zoe, 32 year old female (obviously) English teacher. Cambridgeshire.

hi zoe
yeah i knew instant messaging style when i saw it
i use internet relay chat which is the same sorta thing
and there i use all lower case for speed
and newlines instead of punctuation

But, as you've found out, Internet forums are a bit different. This
particular newsgroup system is called Usenet, and has been running since
1979. (Google-groups is just one of many gateways to it, by the way.)

You've run into this thing called "netiquette", which has grown up
mostly here in Usenet, which is a bunch of informal rules to let us get
on with each other reasonably OK. You can search on that term, if you
want. Part of that happens to be an expectation that people take a
little time to compose a coherent and punctuated message, although a
colloquial style is OK.

Anyway, despite the fuss, you're getting to the answers that you want,
so you should get the telly sorted out eventually. And as others here
have said, please do tell us if you do get it working, so that we know
that we've not been wasting our time.

--
Dave Farrance

Dear all,Firstly may you all accept my sincere apologies relating to
the grammatical content of my first post.I ignorantly spoke to you all
like i would on an instant messenger service. However since learning a
few important facts about this site I will in future (if I dare
return)use the correct grammar and content to the best of my ability
regarding any technical queries.
News is as follows:- I have installed my new aerial and
coax etc etc,and re-scanned my television. The result being as
follows:-Clearer picture,and 86 channels to date. Thanks all for your
advice,much appreciated.

Ah, you sorted it. Don't need to read my previous post now :-)

Marky P.

Do you ever pick up from Cavendish Court St. Neots. The amplifier came
with the new aerial by the way!!

In article . com,
wrote:



[Snip]

The amplifier came with the new aerial by the way!!

That sounds like a "caravan kit". ;-(

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Bill Wright wrote:
Sometimes 6th formers and students creep in but we soon spot 'em. They are
allowed to stay if they behave and keep quiet, but alas they often don't.

Would anyone like to admit to being over 75?

When I reached 40, I started quoting my age in Hexadecimal. Trouble is I'm 2B now.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.