ATSC Converter

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 04:20:29 -0400, RobertVA
wrote:

High Definition requires a LOT of data, even with compression. It takes
storage media with a LARGE capacity and high data rate to handle HD.
Ordinary DVD-Rs or DVD+Rs would fill up FAST, requiring two to handle
even a single hour of 720p or 720i content (more for 1080i).

How about using MPEG4 compression.

Does anyone know if there is an MPEG4 chip available or about to
become available?

I have a DVDR that plays DVDs while it is recording to HDD. That's
because the recording is done with an MPEG2 chip onboard. The unit
will also play MPEG4 DivX/XviD AVIs since it has the codec internally.
But it won't play AVIs while recording because there is not enough CPU
power to run the HDD and decode the AVI in software. It would work if
there were an MPEG4 chip but there was none when the unit was built.

I have to use a second DVDR to play AVIs when I am recording on the
first unit. No big deal unless I am using the second unit to record a
second program.




--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:15:45 +0000, Citizen Bob wrote:

I wonder if you can get two coupons and use both of them for one
converter.

The answer to this question and any other you may have is here.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/index.html

How much does anyone want to bet that the govt will extend the
deadline. Based on a cursory survey of the crap in the market today,
there is no way 100million people are going to be able to deal with
the conversion in such a short period of time. Quality of current
low-end products sucks big time and it is still too expensive for most
people. It's going to take at least 5 more years to get the industry
working properly.

The date will not be extended. You can bank on that. The rest of what you
say is just bs. I haven't used NTSC for 2 years and many that used to
use it have not used it longer than that. If you use NTSC now, you have 17
months to convert. if one can't convert in that time period, they're
idiots. The quality of TV equipment today with ATSC tuners is better than
previous NTSC only products by a long shot. The cost of a low end Tv is no
more now than it was before. You can buy a TV with a digital tuner in it
for the same price as you could buy a TV without one a couple of years
ago. Actually, you can buy them cheaper now if you are going to HD. I
don't know what "industry" you are looking at, but they've been
broadcasting digital ATSC here for almost 8 years now. More than 95% of
all stations have had their digital broadcast going for some time. All of
your old equipment will still work with an external tuner. And there is no
major impact, if any, on 80% of the people as they use cable or sat. So
I'd bet you about anything you want to bet. Just think how much money each
station will save per month when they are able to turn off that energy
hungry 1000KWH analog transmitter. That's roughly $130 per hour just in
energy cost here. Or about $90K per month. And that's just the energy
savings. Add the cost of maintaning the equipment and it'll be well over
$100K per month savings.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Citizen Bob wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:49:07 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Govt. DTV Coupon Program to Be Managed by IBM

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2171486,00.asp

"Beginning Jan. 1, 2008, consumers may request up to two coupons, worth
$40 each, good for partial payment on a digital converter box that will
interface to their analog TV. Unless Congress agrees to delay the
transition further, analog broadcasts will cease on Feb. 17, 2009."

Thanks for the heads up.

I wonder if you can get two coupons and use both of them for one
converter.

One coupon per converter at retailers/chains with prior authorization to
participate in the program. Converter models will need prior government
review for feature set before certification to be purchased with the
coupons.

Consumers will need to apply for the coupons. The coupons will expire a
few months after they are issued. The coupons funded by the initial
appropriation will be available to all households, but IF that
appropriation is exhausted the second appropriation will require
consumers to indicate the household has NO alternate broadcast sources
(like cable or satellite).

How much does anyone want to bet that the govt will extend the
deadline. Based on a cursory survey of the crap in the market today,
there is no way 100million people are going to be able to deal with
the conversion in such a short period of time. Quality of current
low-end products sucks big time and it is still too expensive for most
people. It's going to take at least 5 more years to get the industry
working properly.

I have a hard time believing that many people won't have late model TVs
with dual ATSC/NTSC tuners by February 2009 OR a connection to cable or
satellite service. The same tendency for TVs to fail will contribute to
the turnover that will place TVs with ATSC capable tuners in people's
entertainment centers (or hanging on the wall).

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:23:12 +0000, Citizen Bob wrote:

How about using MPEG4 compression.

ATSC is mpeg2. Sat companies like Directv are using it in their new
satellites. But it obsoletes all their old STB's. You won;t see it for
ATSC anytime soon if ever.

Does anyone know if there is an MPEG4 chip available or about to become
available?

Chip? Encoder? Decoder? Why? It won't do you any good. You can both
encode and decode with your PC. There are no public transmissins of mpeg4
except sat that I know of.

I have a DVDR that plays DVDs while it is recording to HDD. That's
because the recording is done with an MPEG2 chip onboard. The unit will
also play MPEG4 DivX/XviD AVIs since it has the codec internally. But it
won't play AVIs while recording because there is not enough CPU power to
run the HDD and decode the AVI in software. It would work if there were
an MPEG4 chip but there was none when the unit was built.

What you have is an analog device encoding 480i to mpeg2 which takes
roughly 1GB per hour. Consider the fact that 1080i takes about 7 times
that much power. My bother has one of these too, a Panasonic DMR. After
NTSC goes away, you'll have to connect it via a converter box and manually
control the channel on the converter box to record with it. IOW's, for OTA
recording it won't have much usefulness. It will still work fine with
analog cable for as long as it's available. Just fyi, I dumped all my
analog recorders (5, icluding tivo/rca dvrs and vcr's) over a year ago. I
kept one vcr just for some old tapes my wife has, and the fact analog
vcr's aren't worth a dime these days imo.

I have to use a second DVDR to play AVIs when I am recording on the
first unit. No big deal unless I am using the second unit to record a
second program.

Then you should consider a PC based system where you can do all this and
more from one box.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

RobertVA wrote (in part):

I doubt a VHS
tape could handle the data rate of high definition unless the tape
mechanism operated at a significantly higher tape transport speed (at
shorter record/play times)

Recording in the standard analog VHS format, sure (anyone remember the
Telcan recorder?). And you'd have to change a lot of electronics just
to get the signal to the tape. But D-VHS recorders record and play HD
at normal VHS speeds using tape that is just a high-grade version of
VHS. D-VHS tape is recommended, but you can use S-VHS grade. You
could even use regular VHS tape if you drill holes in the cassette to
fool the recorder into thinking it's a D-VHS tape, but the
imperfections might be more than the system can correct, resulting in
intermittent digital dropouts.

Del Mibbler

On Sep 12, 8:29 am, RobertVA wrote:
Citizen Bob wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:49:07 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Govt. DTV Coupon Program to Be Managed by IBM

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2171486,00.asp

"Beginning Jan. 1, 2008, consumers may request up to two coupons, worth
$40 each, good for partial payment on a digital converter box that will
interface to their analog TV. Unless Congress agrees to delay the
transition further, analog broadcasts will cease on Feb. 17, 2009."

Thanks for the heads up.

I wonder if you can get two coupons and use both of them for one
converter.

One coupon per converter at retailers/chains with prior authorization to
participate in the program. Converter models will need prior government
review for feature set before certification to be purchased with the
coupons.

Consumers will need to apply for the coupons. The coupons will expire a
few months after they are issued. The coupons funded by the initial
appropriation will be available to all households, but IF that
appropriation is exhausted the second appropriation will require
consumers to indicate the household has NO alternate broadcast sources
(like cable or satellite).

How much does anyone want to bet that the govt will extend the
deadline. Based on a cursory survey of the crap in the market today,
there is no way 100million people are going to be able to deal with
the conversion in such a short period of time. Quality of current
low-end products sucks big time and it is still too expensive for most
people. It's going to take at least 5 more years to get the industry
working properly.

I have a hard time believing that many people won't have late model TVs
with dual ATSC/NTSC tuners by February 2009 OR a connection to cable or
satellite service. The same tendency for TVs to fail will contribute to
the turnover that will place TVs with ATSC capable tuners in people's
entertainment centers (or hanging on the wall).

Well, if I can I'll use my coupon on a Coby or a Samsung tuner
that isn't bottom end such that I'll have a box that does more
thing and I'll use it not for my
old TV but for a larger monitor assuming that would work.
Unless I have to swear I don't a a newer TV. And even
then my elderly mom will be clearly be someone
who can apply for the coupon and get.

"Citizen Bob" wrote in message
...
Someone mentioned an inexpensive digital to analog TV signal
converter.

If analog is available why would anyone want to convert digital to
analog?

===============================
1) Analog is only avaliable OTA for another 15 months.
2) Many stations broadcast digital programming that is not available on
analog
3) HD downconverted looks FANTASTIC on your old set.
4) No need to watch any analog stations anymore.
=================================