Viewing Format and Warranty

I begin this thread with this rather ominous warning in the Users
Guide for Samsung CRT HDTVs:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...00Eng_0221.pdf

+++
Important Warranty Information Regarding Television Format Viewing

Standard screen format televisions (4:3, the aspect ratio of the
screen width to height) are primarily designed to view standard format
full-motion video. The images displayed on them should primarily be in
the standard 4:3 ratio format and constantly moving. Displaying
stationary graphics and images on screen, such as the dark top and
bottom letterbox bars (wide screen pictures), should be limited to no
more than 15% of the total television viewing per week.

Wide screen format televisions (16:9, the aspect ratio of the screen
width to height) are primarily designed to view wide screen format
full-motion video. The images displayed on them should primarily be in
the wide screen 16:9 ratio format, or expanded to fill the screen
if your model offers this feature, and constantly moving. Displaying
stationary graphics and images on screen, such as the dark sidebars
on non-expanded standard format television video and programming,
should be limited to no more than 15% of the total television
viewing per week.

Additionally, viewing other stationary images and text such as stock
market reports, video game displays, station logos, web sites or
computer graphics and patterns, should be limited as described above
for all televisions. Displaying any stationary images that
exceed the above guidelines can cause uneven aging of picture
tubes(CRTs) that leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost
images in the television picture. To avoid this, vary the programming
and images, and primarily display full screen moving
images, not stationary patterns or dark bars. On television models
that offer picture sizing features, use these controls to view the
different formats as a full screen picture.

Be careful in the selection and duration of television formats used
for viewing. Uneven CRT aging as a result of format selection and
use, as well as other burned-in images, is not covered by your Samsung
limited warranty.
+++

To further complicate matters, Samsung provides for an automatic
conversion to letterbox if you are watching SD WS as it sometimes does
for commercials.

It is my understanding that Full Screen (16:9 HD WS) is not suitable
for SD WS, which is Letterbox viewing format - slightly smaller than
Full Screen.

If all you watch is HD TV channels then this warning is moot. But if
like me you watch a lot of SD NTSC DVDR recordings (whether SD or HD
source), then you either have to put the set in Full Screen, which
allegedly distorts the image slightly, or run it in Letterbox for a
clear picture which can end up damaging the CRT.

Do LCD sets suffer from this apparent affliction?


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

(Citizen Bob) wrote:

Do LCD sets suffer from this apparent affliction?

No. Although some will claim they do, under extreme circumstance.

CRTs aren't even as fragile as Samsung claims. This is just a CYA to cover
those who leave the set on 24/7.

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:43:40 -0400, Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion wrote:

(Citizen Bob) wrote:

Do LCD sets suffer from this apparent affliction?

No. Although some will claim they do, under extreme circumstance.

CRTs aren't even as fragile as Samsung claims.

If the problem is a acute as they seem to imply, then they should
implement some kind of protection.

This is just a CYA to cover those who leave the set on 24/7.

The problem is they have sole discretion to honor the warranty. They
say no more than 15% per week, which is totally absurd.

Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD format.

If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as
WS format?

If it does show as WS, then it would seem that you can get around
Samsung's ominous warning by always playing an ATSC HD WS program.
With a conventional DVDR you will have to buy an ATSC converter for
OTA broadcasts or get a DVDR with an ATSC converter.

What Samsung seems to be concerned about is using the SD or Letterbox
viewing format. Neither is needed for true HD WS coming from an ATSC
source.


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:55:37 +0000, Citizen Bob wrote:

If all you watch is HD TV channels then this warning is moot. But if
like me you watch a lot of SD NTSC DVDR recordings (whether SD or HD
source), then you either have to put the set in Full Screen, which
allegedly distorts the image slightly, or run it in Letterbox for a
clear picture which can end up damaging the CRT.

Do LCD sets suffer from this apparent affliction?

I've got both 4:3 and 16:9 HDTV monitors/TV's. I don't worry about this
and haven't noticed any problems with either LCD or CRT sets. Normally
though on the 4:3 sets, I zoom 16:9 shows to full screen cutting off the
edges where there is normally nothng of any value anyway. Watching SD on
the widescreen I never stretch it to widescreen and watch it with bars on
the side. Haven't noticed any ill effects there either so far. I've had
the set 6 months running about 6 hours per day. The 4:3 CRT is a 19"
computer monitor about 7 years old. No burn in on it either. I dod keep
the brightness and contrast low on it except when watching TV on it.

--
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On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:29:46 +0000, Citizen Bob wrote:

Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD format.

If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as
WS format?

Depends on what you record it with, and what it's set to diplay. I reord
on a PC, and I can output the display as 16:9, 16:9 zoom, 16:9 stretch
(wider or taller), 4:3, 4:3 zoom, 4:3 stretch (wider or taller), fill mode
which will fill the screen no mater what, and with no special attributes
(as set by the transmission). On top of this, the TV also has modes. I
leave the Tv set to aspect ratio and control display via the PC normally.
Otherwise, one could get things all screwed up and counteract each other.
So in the end, it all depends on what recorder and TV you have and how you
have them set.


If it does show as WS, then it would seem that you can get around
Samsung's ominous warning by always playing an ATSC HD WS program.
With a conventional DVDR you will have to buy an ATSC converter for
OTA broadcasts or get a DVDR with an ATSC converter.

I leave my 4:3 sets in fill mode as default. That way I always get a full
screen picture no matter what the show. I can rotate through all modes
with a single button push.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:36:34 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD format.

If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as
WS format?

Depends on what you record it with, and what it's set to diplay.

As mentioned above, I record to a conventional DVD.

My question agaon, If I record (with a conventional DVDR) an HD
program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as WS format?

I leave my 4:3 sets in fill mode as default.

What if the picture is 16:9


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

On Sep 14, 8:51 am, (Citizen Bob) wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:36:34 GMT, Wes Newell

wrote:
Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a
conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC
broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD
format.
If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it
show as
WS format?
Depends on what you record it with, and what it's set to diplay.

As mentioned above, I record to a conventional DVD.

My question agaon, If I record (with a conventional DVDR) an HD
program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as WS format?

I leave my 4:3 sets in fill mode as default.

What if the picture is 16:9

If you're recording to conventional DVD, you're down converting back
to standard def. Does your recorder give you options on how to handle
4:3 vs 16:9 ?

As far as our PC DVRs go. Aspect ratio and resolution stays as
originally transmitted.

GG

Citizen Bob wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:36:34 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:


Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD format.



If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as
WS format?



Depends on what you record it with, and what it's set to diplay.


As mentioned above, I record to a conventional DVD.

My question agaon, If I record (with a conventional DVDR) an HD
program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as WS format?


I leave my 4:3 sets in fill mode as default.


What if the picture is 16:9


Depends on hardware and softwa

With my panasonic DVDR (DRM-EZ47K) I must use DVD-RAM disks to record a
16:9 program at 16:9. With a DVD-(+)R or DVD-(+)RW it will record 4:3 only.

With my Laptop and a Pinnacle HD USB tuner I always record a 16:9
program at 16:9 to hard disk.
-Mike

On Sep 14, 12:07 pm, Mike Ray wrote:
Citizen Bob wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:36:34 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD format.

If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as
WS format?

Depends on what you record it with, and what it's set to diplay.

As mentioned above, I record to a conventional DVD.

My question agaon, If I record (with a conventional DVDR) an HD
program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as WS format?

I leave my 4:3 sets in fill mode as default.

What if the picture is 16:9

Depends on hardware and softwa

With my panasonic DVDR (DRM-EZ47K) I must use DVD-RAM disks to record a
16:9 program at 16:9. With a DVD-(+)R or DVD-(+)RW it will record 4:3 only.

With my Laptop and a Pinnacle HD USB tuner I always record a 16:9
program at 16:9 to hard disk.
-Mike- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I've got the EZ17 and an earlier model without the ATSC tuner. In
both machines, if you set the output of the DVD Recorder to "16:9",
whatever you record will be look like the broadcast. 16:9 will
playback as 16:9 and 4:3 will play back as 4:3. The kind of disk you
use doesn't matter. I suspect you have the DVD-RAM playback set to
16:9 and the rest to 4:3. Check your setup.

Dan (Woj...)

On Sep 14, 10:51 am, (Citizen Bob) wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:36:34 GMT, Wes Newell

wrote:
Here's something I still am not clear about. If I use a conventional
DVDR to record a program that I get from a standard NTSC broadcast OTA
and it is in SD format, then the picture I display will be SD format.
If I record an HD program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as
WS format?
Depends on what you record it with, and what it's set to diplay.

As mentioned above, I record to a conventional DVD.

My question agaon, If I record (with a conventional DVDR) an HD
program from an ATSC broadcast OTA, will it show as WS format?

I leave my 4:3 sets in fill mode as default.

What if the picture is 16:9

--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

As I've answered in other threads, with the Panasonic DVDRs, you can
either capture both 16:9 and 4:3. If you set the output to 16:9, then
the both will play back in their orginal shape. If you set output to
4:3, the 16:9 will get squeezed into a 4:3 frame and the 4:3 will look
normal. One caveot: when we talk about the broadcast aspect ratio,
we are talking about the carrier or envelope or frame, *not*
necessarily the content. For example: If a high-def station
broadcasts a 4:3 program, it will actually be broadcasting a 16:9
picture with black bars on the sides of the "program". The broadcast
is not *really* 4:3, it's a 16:9 broadcast where only 4:3 is
"interesting". If you record this program and play it back as 16:9,
you'll get the 4:3 "interesting" part with the black side pillars. If
you play this back as 4:3, you will *not* get a nice 4:3 filling your
4:3 screen. You will get a 4:3 picture with a sqeezed interesting
part and black bars on the side.

I think this whole part of the thread began with someone pointing out
Samsungs warnings about burn-in on their 16:9 CRT HDTVs. Please
remember, this is not new; this is the same burn-in warning that has
*always* been valid for CRTs. Likewise, I believe that the concerns
about Plasma burn-in are overblown as well; Plasma in someways can be
viewed as an array of tiny phosphore tubes, just like the CRT. The
burn-in effect is the same. If you didn't worry about burn-in on your
CRT, why would you worry about it on your Plasma?

In my personal reality, my 16:9 Plasma screen gets the heaviest
everyday use. I find that my viewing is spread across 16:9, 4:3, 4:3
stretched to 16:9, and some odd-ball aspects that get zoomed to
something between 4:3 and 16:9. It all seems to average out such that
I haven't worried about burn-in or uneven wear during the 3 years I've
had the set. And so far, the set still looks perfect. I would
suspect that a CRT HDTV would be just the same. (Of course, my TV is
only on for about 2-3 hours per day. I certainly don't leave it only
all day/evening with a 4:3 image and a crawling ticker. If you do,
you might want to consider LCD, projection LCD, or DLP. Or just
stretching the screen. Some of the non-uniform stretch modes (like
Panasonics) are really quite effective. Final note, I *have* seen
burned-in LCD screens in my work labs, where the screens may have the
same thing on them for months.)

Dan (Woj...)