Further HDTV Considerations

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:59:02 -0400, "jolt"
wrote:

Look into Windows XP MCE 2005 or Vista Premium for Media center capability.
I run a PC with MCE 2005 with 4 ATSC tuners, 2 NTSC tuners, DVD, HD DVD,
and online content all control by one remote and the WAF (wife acceptance
factor) is high. Also the program guide is free and very simple to schedule
recordings.

Doesn't MCE have all sorts of copyright crap in it?


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

On Sep 12, 11:07 pm, John Briggs wrote:
dmaster wrote:

...

Can I record with an ATSC converter connected to a conventional DVDR
and see the improvement? I do not believe the DVDR supports 480p, so
the signal to the TV would presumably be 480i.

The short answer is "yes". My experience is that down-converted HD
broadcasts look as good as commercial DVDs. Recorded Digital SD
broadcasts look as good as the live broadcasts which means crystal
clear and brightly colored, but not as good a DVD if the the broadcast
was too low a bit rate *and* you are viewing it on an EDTV or an HDTV.

May I ask if this is true for HD regardless of the connection, S-Video or
component, between the converter and DVDR or (in my case) an STB and a TV
tuner card)?

The DVDRs I've used have S-Video as the best input. No Component,
DVI, or HDMI inputs. (I'm not sure any DVDRs have the better
inputs.) That said, I would say that the S-Video input recordings
still look wonderful. No discernable difference on my analog TV, and
only slight differences on my Plasma EDTV, or my LCD HDTV. (I've
recorded broadcasts from both a Samsung 451 ATSC tuner - effectively
an STB - and from my Sony HDD-250 high definition DVR.)


I have been quite happy recording OTA HD on a PC with a couple of ATSC
tuner cards and an NTSC card but there are now a few shows in HD only on
cable I thought I would like to check out. For dramas and comedies I would
find DVD-like quality quite acceptable. Would the 16x9 aspect ratio be
maintained or would I get letterboxed 4x3, or is that up to the capture
software? I just don't know the limitations of S-Video and haven't seen a
consumer-level component capture card.

With both my Samsung and Sony boxes, if I set the box output for 16:9,
then the DVD is recorded in 16:9. 16:9 broadcasts are still 16:9.
4:3 broadcasts become pillarboxed, as you would expect.

I think you are unlikely to see any component, DVI, or HDMI consumer-
level capture cards due to copywrite concerns. S-Video is limited to
480i, and it is an analog connection, so you will never get HD quality
recordings. My guess is that those with only analog (non-HD)
broadcast experience, will find your S-Video recordings to be
superior. Those with, at best, digital SD experience (i.e. regular
satelite) will probably find your recordings to be just as good to
slightly better (assuming an HD broadcast). Those with a lot of HD
experience will find your S-Video recordings to be under their HD
standards, but not objectionable. }

....

Dan (Woj...)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:09:07 +0000, Citizen Bob wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:35:28 -0700, G-squared
wrote:

My first PVR is coming up on its 3 year mark. The second and third are
over a year old and those were as you described as putting HDTV cards
into existing PCs.

Where are some of the definitive resources for Windows-based HD PVRs?

There are several free packages for Windows. Most/many are listed here. I
know nothing about them.

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/approvedsoftware

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

"Citizen Bob" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:59:02 -0400, "jolt"
wrote:

Look into Windows XP MCE 2005 or Vista Premium for Media center
capability.
I run a PC with MCE 2005 with 4 ATSC tuners, 2 NTSC tuners, DVD, HD DVD,
and online content all control by one remote and the WAF (wife acceptance
factor) is high. Also the program guide is free and very simple to
schedule
recordings.

Doesn't MCE have all sorts of copyright crap in it?


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

Certainly and to the same extent that every "current" piece of recording
equipment that you purchase today "MUST" comply. I can only speak to what I
record which is OTA and basic cable, and that so far I have never had a
problem with DRM interfering with recording or playback of a single program.
If or when a provider starts to encode a "copy never" flag, no one should
not be able to record that program except perhaps on older equipment tuner
that does not obey these flags. So MC will be far from the only solution
effected if the providers start using such measures.

There was the scare when an update caused some recordings for some users to
fail to playback and displayed a "Restricted Content" warning. This touched
off a fever of speculation and rumors about Windows MC DRM. The issue was
resolved but the rumors remained. DRM should be a concern primarily for
those who record premium content like HBO as they are another premium
content provider will likely be the first to encode a "copy never" signal in
their programming.


http://www.intel.com/standards/case/case_dtcp.htm

"Citizen Bob" wrote in message
...
OK, you got that HDTV you wanted. Now what are you gonna do with it?

If you are like my household, we watch 90% of our TV from DVDR
recordings the night before. That way we can watch what we want when
we want in the late afternoon before supper. Also, we can skip thru
the commercials.

So if we got a HDTV, we would need a HD DVDR. It would have to have
the digital signal input and at least 720p. There are not many DVDRs
out that have been on the market long enough to have passed thru
adolescent growing pains. That means more Early Adopter Syndrome.

Never mind that the cost has now gotten close to a grand. And for
what? A wider picture? Slightly higher resolution? I do not have a
resolution problem on my old 19" SDTV.

The only thing I am missing is full-screen wide screen. But then I sit
so close (6') that the smaller width of the WS picture is no big deal.
I don't even notice it. I realize it would look nicer if WS were
native to the set. But for a grand I can wait for the industry to put
out a decent product at a decent price.

If a DVDR has an HDMI output, does that automatically imply that it
provides 720p/1080i?

Guess you haven't figured out that cable and satellite provide HDVR's for
about $6 per month.

"RSweeney" wrote:

....

Guess you haven't figured out that cable and satellite provide HDVR's for
about $6 per month.

It depends. Cox in Phoenix, AZ, don't charge for a High Def tier but they
hit you for $18.00 for their HD DVR and $5.00 for the guide service. I only
took a quick look at Dish and DirecTV and, if I recall correctly, their
hardware costs are low but they ding you for extra ($20.00?) to get their
HD service(s).

I am with Cox and for me, a Tivo HD is tempting because I have a Series 2
with a lifetime subscription and their multi-unit discount and a multi-year
commitment would be cheaper but a) I'm not sure the Cox HD offering is all
that attractive yet and b) I still want to see how Tivo handles Switched
Digital Video which will be here soon. I may just go with an STB and
capture S-Video with my (modest) HTPC.

--

John Briggs Phoenix, Arizona, USA)

dmaster wrote:

... That said, I would say that the S-Video input recordings
still look wonderful. No discernable difference on my analog TV, and
only slight differences on my Plasma EDTV, or my LCD HDTV. (I've
recorded broadcasts from both a Samsung 451 ATSC tuner - effectively
an STB - and from my Sony HDD-250 high definition DVR.)

That is good news since I would be capturing via S-Video. I pretty much
assumed you were speaking of S-Video recordings as I assumed consumer-level
component capture was either rare (and expensive if Mr. Newell indeed
recalls correctly) or non-existent.

...I think you are unlikely to see any component, DVI, or HDMI consumer-
level capture cards due to copywrite concerns. S-Video is limited to

The protections included in cable digital broadcasts are confusing and I
would tend to agree with anyone who said Hollywood won't allow "it" for any
value of "it" but I did wonder because of some language in a licensing
agreement from Cablelabs covering STBs.

In the section on controlled content they address "Standard Definition
Analog Outputs," which look to be basically composite and S-Video, and
"High Definition Analog Outputs," which is anything higher than standard,
presumably covering component. The agreement is over 40 pages (so I haven't
read it all) but some of the language seems to say that an STB manufactured
under the license may output component video provided the device will
recognize and enforce any so-called Constrained Image Trigger in the
program stream. The enforcement consists of reducing the analog output to
no more than 520,000 pixels per frame, that being 960x540 for a 16x9 aspect
ratio. Presumably, absent the CIT component could output full HD to a
capture device and this down-resolution is the only protection for contents
with the cIT set.

Since recording via S-Video is widely accepted -- even STB guides show you
how to hook up a VCR -- I wondered if recording constrained output over
component would be available to consumers some time or other. Maybe
Hollywood has given up preventing recording over these non-HD analog
outputs.

Or maybe I have no clue at all.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

--

John Briggs Phoenix, Arizona, USA)

"John Briggs" wrote in message
...
It depends. Cox in Phoenix, AZ, don't charge for a High Def tier but they
hit you for $18.00 for their HD DVR and $5.00 for the guide service. I
only
took a quick look at Dish and DirecTV and, if I recall correctly, their
hardware costs are low but they ding you for extra ($20.00?) to get their
HD service(s).

I am with Cox and for me, a Tivo HD is tempting because I have a Series 2
with a lifetime subscription and their multi-unit discount and a
multi-year
commitment would be cheaper but a) I'm not sure the Cox HD offering is all
that attractive yet and b) I still want to see how Tivo handles Switched
Digital Video which will be here soon. I may just go with an STB and
capture S-Video with my (modest) HTPC.

HD on DirecTV is $10 per month extra, if you have a package that does not
include HD. But a HD DVR receiver on DirecTV is an extra one time hardware
upgrade charge over and above a regular HD receiver.

"Mark A" wrote in message
.. .
HD on DirecTV is $10 per month extra, if you have a package that does not
include HD. But a HD DVR receiver on DirecTV is an extra one time hardware
upgrade charge over and above a regular HD receiver.

Actually, there may be an extra $5 per month charge for DVR on Directv.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:00:19 -0400, "RSweeney"
wrote:

If a DVDR has an HDMI output, does that automatically imply that it
provides 720p/1080i?

Guess you haven't figured out that cable and satellite provide HDVR's for
about $6 per month.

I guess I haven't.

Where can I get one?

The one offered by Comcast costs $71 additional for the prerequisite
cable subscription.


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin