Further HDTV Considerations

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:51:22 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

All these answers are available in seconds if you'd just use a search
engine.

Most "answers" are inadequate. That's why I am asking here.

I do not believe the DVDR supports 480p, so
the signal to the TV would presumably be 480i.

I checked my two SD DVDRs and both support 480p.

Now, the problem with the DVDR with built in tuner is that if you decide
to finally buy a real HDTV, then you can't record real HDTV.:-)

Indeed.


--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

On Sep 11, 4:15 pm, (Citizen Bob) wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:30:46 -0700, G-squared
wrote:

Winegard SquareShooter 35 miles from Mt Wilson in 90274, split 4 ways
to 3 ATI HDTV Wonders in 3 Athlon XP machines each with 500 gig
Seagate drives. They all run ATI Multimedia center 9.14 and are
networked with a Linksys router with Cat 5 cable. Any computer can
record HD while sourcing 2 HD feeds to the other 2 computers while
surfing the web. 1 computer is the TV computer as it's monitor is a
50" Samsung DLP. The Samsung also has an SIR-T165 STB so it's a
complete OTA HDTV by itself.
HDTV Wonder tuners include an RF remote. The software allows pause,
skip fwd/rev 1.5x play 0.5x play - both with audio. Skip increment can
be 1 frame, 10 sec 30sec or 60 second. Basically it works like a TiVo
in HD but more flexible.
Sufficient?

I suppose this is Myth TV.

--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

ATI multimedia center runs under Win XP. I'm too lazy to get a Linux
box up and running so I get along quite happily with Win XP. If I can
make it work, ANYBODY can do it. You install the card, load the
software, curse at it, read the manual and then use it - just like all
Windows stuff.

BUT, even if it was MythTV, what's the problem with that? Wes Newell
does very nicely with it.

GG

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:50:02 -0700, G-squared
wrote:

I suppose this is Myth TV.

ATI multimedia center runs under Win XP. I'm too lazy to get a Linux
box up and running so I get along quite happily with Win XP. If I can
make it work, ANYBODY can do it. You install the card, load the
software, curse at it, read the manual and then use it - just like all
Windows stuff.

I should have used the term PVR instead of MythTV.

I have located the ATI website and I will take a close look. The HD
capability is what interests me. Also the MPEG4 interests me.

BUT, even if it was MythTV, what's the problem with that? Wes Newell
does very nicely with it.

I would love to build my own PVR and maybe now I will be able to.

My idea of the ideal architecture would be putting the capture cards
in either my working PC or a dedicated PC at my desk. It appears that
ATI can accommodate that part and provide MPEG4 compression for 1080p
resolution. I would connect the PC to my LAN and run a CAT5 cable to
the TV set where I would use a Hauppauge MediaMVP unit to play the
MPEG4 files I have created on my hard disk at my desk, assuming that
Hauppauge has such a product.



--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:12:07 +0000, Citizen Bob wrote:

I have located the ATI website and I will take a close look. The HD
capability is what interests me. Also the MPEG4 interests me.

PC's have mpeg4 codec's, but considering atsc is already mpeg2, it's not
worth the time to mess with for storage when disk space is so cheap.

I would love to build my own PVR and maybe now I will be able to.

My idea of the ideal architecture would be putting the capture cards in
either my working PC or a dedicated PC at my desk. It appears that ATI
can accommodate that part and provide MPEG4 compression for 1080p
resolution. I would connect the PC to my LAN and run a CAT5 cable to the
TV set where I would use a Hauppauge MediaMVP unit to play the MPEG4
files I have created on my hard disk at my desk, assuming that Hauppauge
has such a product.

You can use any capture card you want. But what you want and need depend
on what you want to record, and where you want to watch it. Recording atsc
uses hardly any cpu power because there is no encoding to be done.
It's broadcast already encoded in mpeg2. I record 4 HDTV shows at once on
a pc running at 800MHz using about a 5% total system load on the cpu
because all it does is write them to disk. Playback is a different story.
It takes about 80% for full playback of 1080i content no matter what res
it's dispalyed at. It's the decoding that takes the power, not the actual
displaying. The video card handles that. OTOH, playback of SD mpeg2
content only takes about 10% cpu load. But all analog (NTSC) content has
to be encoded. So it takes a lot of cpu power if you don't have a capture
card with on board encoding. There's lots of little gotchas in all this.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Sep 11, 12:14 pm, (Citizen Bob) wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:06:11 -0700, dmaster
wrote:

I have a Panasonic Plasma EDTV - 480p.

What does "EDTV" stand for and how does it fit into the scheme of HDTV
vs SDTV?

HDTV - High Definition TV - 720p or 1080i
EDTV - Enhanced Definintion TV - 480p
SDTV - Standard Definition TV - 480i (effectively less for virtually
all real world American Analog TV systems)


OTA digital TV whether HDTV or SDTV

Here is where I get confused. How can digital TV be SDTV? Is that what
happens if you go thru an ATSC converter where the original HD is
necked down to SD?

Digital TV (the ATSC standard) describes a range of possible
resolutions. The most prevelent in today's use are 480i, 1080i, and
720p. Digital TV does *not* have to be high definition. Still a good
(not overly bit starved) SD broadcast still totally smokes anything
but the most perfect analog broadcast. No snow, no reflections, no
hash lines, better color saturation, etc.


OTA ATSC (digital) completely smokes NTSC, even on an analog set.

Then I should get an ATSC tuner/converter and convert HD signals to
analog signals.

I do this on my pre-digital 32" tube TV. The digital versions of the
broadcasts always look better than the analog, plus I get the extra
sub channels, plus some analogs that are too weak to watch are perfect
in their digital form. I first used a Samsung 451 ATSC tuner. I now
use a Panasonic EZ17 DVD recorder.


Maybe that will help those trying how to "sort of" get into the HDTV
world. }

Your comments are indeed interesting.

So, to answer the question: Yes WS (assuming a digital source) *is*
worth it, even if you watch only 480p.

Can I record with an ATSC converter connected to a conventional DVDR
and see the improvement? I do not believe the DVDR supports 480p, so
the signal to the TV would presumably be 480i.

The short answer is "yes". My experience is that down-converted HD
broadcasts look as good as commercial DVDs. Recorded Digital SD
broadcasts look as good as the live broadcasts which means crystal
clear and brightly colored, but not as good a DVD if the the broadcast
was too low a bit rate *and* you are viewing it on an EDTV or an HDTV.

....

Dan (Woj...)

On Sep 12, 4:12 am, (Citizen Bob) wrote:
snip
I would love to build my own PVR and maybe now I will be able to.

My idea of the ideal architecture would be putting the capture
cards
in either my working PC or a dedicated PC at my desk. It appears
that
ATI can accommodate that part and provide MPEG4 compression for
1080p
resolution. I would connect the PC to my LAN and run a CAT5 cable
to
the TV set where I would use a Hauppauge MediaMVP unit to play the
MPEG4 files I have created on my hard disk at my desk, assuming
that
Hauppauge has such a product.

--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

I looked at that Hauppauge box a few months ago but unless I misread
the page, it is standard def only so I'm not interested.

What is your fascination with MPEG4? If you're recording OTA HD, the
signal is MPEG2. As I said earlier, converting to MPEG4 buys you
exactly nothing performance wise and merely reduces the file size of
the recording. 500 gig drives are $100 so why bother with it? You
mentioned MPEG4 for downloading off the web and then it makes much
sense but OTA isn't that way.

My first PVR is coming up on its 3 year mark. The second and third are
over a year old and those were as you described as putting HDTV cards
into existing PCs.

GG

dmaster wrote:

....
Can I record with an ATSC converter connected to a conventional DVDR
and see the improvement? I do not believe the DVDR supports 480p, so
the signal to the TV would presumably be 480i.

The short answer is "yes". My experience is that down-converted HD
broadcasts look as good as commercial DVDs. Recorded Digital SD
broadcasts look as good as the live broadcasts which means crystal
clear and brightly colored, but not as good a DVD if the the broadcast
was too low a bit rate *and* you are viewing it on an EDTV or an HDTV.

May I ask if this is true for HD regardless of the connection, S-Video or
component, between the converter and DVDR or (in my case) an STB and a TV
tuner card)?

I have been quite happy recording OTA HD on a PC with a couple of ATSC
tuner cards and an NTSC card but there are now a few shows in HD only on
cable I thought I would like to check out. For dramas and comedies I would
find DVD-like quality quite acceptable. Would the 16x9 aspect ratio be
maintained or would I get letterboxed 4x3, or is that up to the capture
software? I just don't know the limitations of S-Video and haven't seen a
consumer-level component capture card.

Thanks.

--

John Briggs Phoenix, Arizona, USA)

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:07:04 -0700, John Briggs wrote:

I have been quite happy recording OTA HD on a PC with a couple of ATSC
tuner cards and an NTSC card but there are now a few shows in HD only on
cable I thought I would like to check out. For dramas and comedies I would
find DVD-like quality quite acceptable. Would the 16x9 aspect ratio be
maintained or would I get letterboxed 4x3, or is that up to the capture
software? I just don't know the limitations of S-Video and haven't seen a
consumer-level component capture card.

There was a component capture card released a short period back but the
cost was around $350 IIRC. S-Video is normally limited to 480i.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:35:28 -0700, G-squared
wrote:

My first PVR is coming up on its 3 year mark. The second and third are
over a year old and those were as you described as putting HDTV cards
into existing PCs.

Where are some of the definitive resources for Windows-based HD PVRs?

My prime concern is the need for a remote control interface at the TV
side so my wife can use it. If she has to type Windows commands,
forget about it.

I will work the capture side and the remote control inteface will deal
with playback. I am talking about a full-featured remote control
capability that emulates a DVD player.




--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

"Citizen Bob" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:35:28 -0700, G-squared
wrote:

My first PVR is coming up on its 3 year mark. The second and third are
over a year old and those were as you described as putting HDTV cards
into existing PCs.

Where are some of the definitive resources for Windows-based HD PVRs?

My prime concern is the need for a remote control interface at the TV
side so my wife can use it. If she has to type Windows commands,
forget about it.

I will work the capture side and the remote control inteface will deal
with playback. I am talking about a full-featured remote control
capability that emulates a DVD player.




--

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

Look into Windows XP MCE 2005 or Vista Premium for Media center capability.
I run a PC with MCE 2005 with 4 ATSC tuners, 2 NTSC tuners, DVD, HD DVD,
and online content all control by one remote and the WAF (wife acceptance
factor) is high. Also the program guide is free and very simple to schedule
recordings.