PVR?

In article , John Rumm wrote:
But take a look in an Argos catelogue or walk around your
local (chain) electrical shop and see how many you see.

If you're considering buying a complex and expensive piece of technology
that has to be right, you would be a fool only to look in the shops when
there is a much bigger selection and better prices online, and the option
to have DVD multiregion playback as supplied.

A less obvious problem that I found with many of the DVD inclusive*
solutions is that they don't tend to have multiple tuners (which really*
becomes vital when you want to use facilities like "record every program*
starting with name" etc.

True, but an additional cheap freeview box will at least enable you to
watch one programme while recording another. If the ability to record two
programmes at once is important, just wait a year or so till it's time to
upgrade your recorder to a higher capacity one, but keep the old one.

The inclusion of the DVD recorder means that the boxes need the*
capability to digitize video in real time (otherwise the external video*
input would not work). The tends to mean that they decode the DTT to*
video first and then either direct it at the DVR part, or re-digitise it*
for HDD storage. This lowers the quality a bit, and also prevent tricks*
like being able to take parallel streams out of a mux etc.

Again true, but I have both sorts and the quality loss is hardly
noticeable. In fact I don't think you'd notice a difference at all unless
you were aware that there should be one and actually looked for it.

A big advantage of this sort of recorder over the HDD-only PVR is that it
can record from external video sources (e.g. VHS), not just off-air.

Rod.

Roderick Stewart wrote:

True, but an additional cheap freeview box will at least enable you to
watch one programme while recording another. If the ability to record two
programmes at once is important, just wait a year or so till it's time to
upgrade your recorder to a higher capacity one, but keep the old one.

While this is true, it actually misses the important point. To get the
full functionality from the PVR it really needs to have the ability to
record from two *built in* tuners under its control. That way you don't
need to give any consideration what will be recorded by which tuner etc.
The device is left to schedule best use of the tuners to achieve what it
has been asked to do.

The ability to "record one, watch another", is very useful, but I would
say not the most important reason for having two tuners in the PVR.

The inclusion of the DVD recorder means that the boxes need the
capability to digitize video in real time (otherwise the external video
input would not work). The tends to mean that they decode the DTT to
video first and then either direct it at the DVR part, or re-digitise it
for HDD storage. This lowers the quality a bit, and also prevent tricks
like being able to take parallel streams out of a mux etc.

Again true, but I have both sorts and the quality loss is hardly
noticeable. In fact I don't think you'd notice a difference at all unless
you were aware that there should be one and actually looked for it.

No, the quality issue is less important in most cases, but it does give
clues as to how the unit will function internally, and hence when
associated limitations you may find yourself stuck with.

A big advantage of this sort of recorder over the HDD-only PVR is that it
can record from external video sources (e.g. VHS), not just off-air.

Personally I would find the loss in capability of the PVR not worth
sacrificing for that. Especially since one could buy a standalone DVDR
recorder to sit alongside it if required for relatively little these days.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Robin wrote:
In the end I found the solution that got what I really wanted was
having
the PVR on the end of my LAN so that I could drag programs off it and
then edit and transfer them to DVD there.

May I ask (only for information)* which PVR (as I could not find any
(mainstream) ones last year with native ethernet support)?

No neither could I!

The solution I went for was a 250GB Toppy, a Linksys NSLU2 network
attached storage box, and a couple of homeplug ethernet over mains
boxes. The Linksys sits beside toppy under the TV, and the homeplug
boxes gets the ethernet back to the LAN without extra wiring etc (you
could achieve the same with a couple of WiFi Wireless Access Points, or
even a long CAT5 cable if you preferred)

The NSLU2 is a dinky little LAN device that is designed to allow USB
based drives and memory sticks to be shared on a LAN. However since it
is a embedded Linux system there is tons of add on utilities people have
written for it; including a FTP server for Toppy. So you download that
to the linksys box, plug it into the toppy USB socket, and low and
behold you can now access toppys drive via FTP.

I use Filezilla on the PC to drag and drop stuff from toppy. The files
it uses to record in (.rec files) can be read and played without any
further adjustment by the VLC Media player (free download). You can even
start watching a downloaded file before you finish downloading it which
is nice.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The solution I went for snip

Thanks for that. What it is to be "in the trade" and, I trust, to have
sourced at least some of that from stock written down to negligible
value

I think I'll wait for the next generation with (I hope) native Ethernet
support as eg trailed by Humax last year according to Paul Schofield's
report
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....5323f0405e924a.

--
Robin

Robin wrote:

I think I'll wait for the next generation with (I hope) native
Ethernet support

If you want native Ethernet support, there are options you could try,
such as the Dreambox DM 7025, which is Linux-based, highly hackable and
user-expandable twin-tuner PVR (the tuners are replaceable modules, a
bit like PC cards, the software is open-sourced)...

http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_dm7025.php
http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/do...r_manual_dm702
5_26-03-2006.pdf (The manual only covers basic usage, you'll have to
resort to user forums for networking and plugins.)

....or the Maximum T-8000 (Linux-based as well, and does interesting
things via the Ethernet port, too, but I don't know about the
hackability aspect):

http://www.kjaerulff1.com/downloadfile.aspx?did=688
http://www.kjaerulff1.com/downloadfile.aspx?did=718

I'm not sure if Kjaerulff has resellers for the T-8000 in the UK yet,
but it looks like an interesting product and based on that brochure and
user manual they're at least planning to make it available in the UK.

The Dreambox can be ordered from hm-sat.de (make sure to select DVB-T
tuners for terrestrial [Freeview] reception), or from some smaller UK
companies.

The Dreambox isn't targeted specifically for the UK market so it may be
missing some UK-specific features - mainly MHEG-5 support (Digital
Teletext / red button interactivity) and Freeview Playback. (Not to say
these couldn't be added later if some UK hacker wants to implement these
features, but as far as the MHEG-5 support goes, I'm a bit skeptical.)
I'm not sure how the Maximum fares in this respect.

--
znark

Robin wrote:
The solution I went for snip

Thanks for that. What it is to be "in the trade" and, I trust, to have
sourced at least some of that from stock written down to negligible
value

Stock? go wash you mouth out! ;-) That is what suppliers are for. (still
having a few trade accounts with the usual suspects takes the edge off
the price)

I think I'll wait for the next generation with (I hope) native Ethernet
support as eg trailed by Humax last year according to Paul Schofield's
report
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....5323f0405e924a.

Yup a box with all you need in one would be great, but in the mean time
the toppy lash-up does what I need quite nicely.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Matti Lamprhey" wrote in message
...
"WCZ" wrote...
"André Coutanche" wrote...
WCZ wrote:
"André Coutanche" wrote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:

My humax has always "just worked"

Good. Done a rescan lately?

Yes, at the weekend. Was something supposed to go wrong?

Dunno, I don't have one. But look for the thread roundabout 26 August
titled 'ITV3 problem from Mendip this evening' to see that at least
one Humax owner came across the less-than-satisfactory response of the
Humax software to new LCNs coming and going. I was able to advise him
because my Topfield shares this flakiness.


That was why I did the rescan. ITV2 and 3 weren't picking up the EPG. I
deleted the two channels. A rescan re-added them and that was that.

As the instigator of said thread, the point is that it shouldn't be
necessary to delete channels prior to a rescan.


Thats what I've always done on all freeview boxes when I know something has
changed on an existing channel.

Matti
-- a very happy Hummy user nevertheless

WCZ wrote:


I don't know what forums you browse but www.hummy.org.uk doesn't show too
many obvious problems. It *did* have lock up issues with early firmware but
these were fixed ages ago.


Try this:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=610425

In the other thread: "PVR or simple HD/DVD recorder?" ...

"bugbear" wrote in message
...

I have been using VCRs for time shifting for 15 years,
and am used to that, and I wasn't thinking
of much beyond a HD based equivalent, with DVD read/write
thrown in.

In this one ...

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
i.fi...

such as the Dreambox DM 7025, which is Linux-based, highly hackable and
user-expandable twin-tuner PVR (the tuners are replaceable modules, a
bit like PC cards, the software is open-sourced)

I have a Pace Twin DTT PVR and a Dreambox DM7000 satellite decoder. I use
the former for preference as its controls are so much more ergonomic and
convenient, and anyway I have to for Chs 4 & 5. I use the latter for stuff
on BBC/ITV/Film 4 that I might want to keep permanently.

Early versions of the software on the Pace were terrible, but the current
release is much better, perhaps even quite good - something like what it
should have been in the first place. However, there are still occasional
lockups while using the remote, and it's a real pain to get recordings off
it into the PC (you have to open up the case, remove the drive, mount it in
a PC, run a special prog).

The DB, being 'FreeSat', can't receive Chs 4 & 5. Worse, it has serious
bugs in that it often misses repeat, say weekly, recordings, and locks up
while scrolling through satellite channel lists. However, what probably
infuriates me most of all is that recording/playback have idiotic controls
where the same buttons on the remote have different functions depending on
context. This means that I have often missed recording manually the
beginnings of programmes because during the preceding announcement I've
pressed what I have presumed is the Record button and found myself in Radio
mode instead. Words fail me to describe how absolutely "%^%**_(_^&£^%$"^
maddening that is. It's a result of totally block-headed, unthinking
design. Worse, the way particular way it's been done means that it can't be
got round by, say, programming a universal remote. And that's another
gripe. My expensive 'universal' remote won't work the DB - for some
reason or other it just won't learn the commands.

Yes, the DB is very convenient downloading files over my network straight
into the PC for creating DVDs, and is very hackable if you've got the
inclination and the time, but IME DBs are absolutely *not* for the
technically faint-hearted, or those who just want something that does what
it says on the box.

Java Jive wrote:

I have a Pace Twin DTT PVR and a Dreambox DM7000 satellite decoder.

The DM 7000 is very different from the DM 7025, which was suggested in
my previous message. It's based on IBM's set-top-box chip with a PowerPC
processor core, does not have user-changeable tuners (or different tuner
choices for terrestrial or cable tv viewing), and runs the Enigma 1
software.

The DM 7025 is based on ATI's Xilleon chip (MIPS processor core), has
changeable tuners (DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S are the available choices), and
runs the all-new Enigma 2 software, which has been rewritten from ground
up.

The DB, being 'FreeSat', can't receive Chs 4 & 5.

The DM 7025 has a CI slot and two built-in smart card readers, so you
can view and record pay channels with it, be they received from
satellite, terrestrial, or cable, given that a suitable CAM is
available.

If it isn't, it's also possible to use the so-called "softcams", which
are software implementations of various encryption (decryption) systems.
These are a bit more on the shady side, since they're unlicensed
implementations, so you'll have to find them on the Internet yourself.
(Softcams by themselves don't allow unauthorized viewing - you still
need a card and a subscription - but it is also possible to to
cardsharing over the home network, or even over Internet, which is where
things go even more into the grey area...)

Worse, it has serious bugs in that it often misses repeat,
say weekly, recordings, and locks up while scrolling through
satellite channel lists.

Since the DM 7025 runs a different software (Enigma 2 vs Enigma 1), the
bugs, if any, are different. I only have experience with a DM 7025 that
is equipped with 2×DVB-T tuners, for terrestrial reception, but I
haven't encountered any lock-ups when scrolling through the channel
lists.

However, what probably infuriates me most of all is that
recording/playback have idiotic controls where the same
buttons on the remote have different functions depending
on context. This means that I have often missed recording
manually the beginnings of programmes because during the
preceding announcement I've pressed what I have presumed
is the Record button and found myself in Radio mode instead.
Words fail me to describe how absolutely "%^%**_(_^&£^%$"^
maddening that is. It's a result of totally block-headed,
unthinking design.

I don't know how that works in the DM 7000 (Enigma 1), but on DM 7025
(Enigma 2), you can quite easily change the default key mappings for
each "mode" yourself if you're not satisfied in them. (As I understand
it, the user interface logic and the default keymaps are a bit different
between Engima 1 and Enigma 2, anyway.)

As for universal remotes, the one that comes with DM 7025 is actually a
One-For-All in disguise (i.e. a UEI product). There is a JP1 connector
under the battery cover.

Yes, the DB is very convenient downloading files over my network
straight into the PC for creating DVDs, and is very hackable if
you've got the inclination and the time, but IME DBs are absolutely
*not* for the technically faint-hearted, or those who just want
something that does what it says on the box.

I think Enigma 1 based Dreamboxes are somewhat different from Enigma 2
based Dreamboxes (which currently include only the DM 7025, to my
knowledge, but the DM 8000 will use Enigma 2, too.)

--
znark