Recommendation for DVD and/or HD recorder?

Peter wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:26:33 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm pretty ignorant on digital TV so I'd appreciate some solid advice
please. First, the background facts. I have a Panasonic TV (TX-32LXD52
32" LCD) and a Philips combo unit which records VCR and plays DVDs.
Last summer I had a satellite dish and Amstrad 'Skybox' fitted (the
£150 SKY package). If it's relevant, we are in a Freeview black hole;
no channels at all.

I now want to get rid of my VCR unit and VHS cassettes (after copying
some first to DVD). I *don't* want to take out a new contract with SKY
(we watch relatively few of the channels we already have). So I don't
want to take my son's advice and 'get SKY PLUS'.

So why don't you purchase a Sky+ box from a dealer, get an LNB upgrade
from your local aerial installer and away you go - register the Sky+
box with Sky, they will send you a new card and you will then be able
to record to your hearts content.

You DON'T need to take out a new contract with Sky

[My news server, News.Individual.net, seems to have problems. I tried
to send this earlier, but it appears to have failed. Apologies if it
gets duplicated.]

---------

Thanks Peter, very timely. After my miserable failure last night I had
pretty well decided to go the SkyPlus route. And that was before
learning that I can do it without an additional contract. I'll pursue
that approach today, presumably starting with a call to Sky?

I don't normally abandon a problem this soon, so - although I plan to
return the LG HDD/DVD unit to Curry's today for a refund - I'm keen to
understand the issue thoroughly. I should have been more patient and
waited for further replies before biting the bullet and making the
purchase this afternoon. I spent an hour in Argos but even after
opening a unit (a Wharfedale 80 GB in that case) and inspecting its
user guide I could see no explicit evidence that it would record from
VCR. I remained convinced it should be able to do so, simply from a
logical standpoint, so was all set to buy, on the assumption that I
could return it, just as I had done with a DVD player a year ago. But
to my surprise, turns out it was exempt from Argos's usual returns
policy - my main reason for shopping there. Seems that any
'recordable' device is an exception. However, the assistant at Curry's
a little later didn't hesitate to confirm that I could do that, so I
went ahead.

You are of course correct in your reply to Rod: I do not have any
freeview signal (DTB as I now gather it is also called). Is that the
key issue here, as I'm beginning to think? As summarised in my last
post, I gave up after some 8 hours trying to get a permutation of
cabling etc that would achieve both my temporary recording requirement
*and* my permanent 'no VCR' scenario. Instead I focused just on the
latter, and made encouraging progress. But nothing I tried would give
me a menu showing viewable channels and programmes. So my only success
in recording to HD was a direct one. I suspected that the input signal
that the LG wanted was the satellite one, and for some reason wasn't
getting it the way I'd connected the various scarts and co-ax cables.

Apart from the aerial issues (terrestrial and digital), another area
that baffles me is how to choose AV1, AV2, etc. whenever I get options
to do so, either in on-screen menus or in the choice of which socket
to plug scarts into. My Panasonic for example has no fewer than 3 such
sockets, AV1, AV2 - and AV4 (not AV3)! As you see, I am thoroughly
confused, and any further education in really basic terms would be
much appreciated please.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

In article , wrote:
Apart from the aerial issues (terrestrial and digital), another area that
baffles me is how to choose AV1, AV2, etc. whenever I get options to do so,
either in on-screen menus or in the choice of which socket to plug scarts
into. My Panasonic for example has no fewer than 3 such sockets, AV1, AV2 -
and AV4 (not AV3)! As you see, I am thoroughly confused, and any further
education in really basic terms would be much appreciated please.

On the Panasonic, AV3 is on the front. It'll be a group of phono sockets
under a little flap, for the convenience of plugging temporary things like
camcorders. Just ignore it if you don't need it.

If you want to record from an external source that can produce RGB signals,
plug it to the SCART input, which is AV2. This would be where to connect a
Sky box, using a fully wired SCART cable, not forgetting to set both the
output of the Sky box and the AV2 input on the recorder to RGB.

Plug any composite source such as a VHS machine to the composite input on the
back, which is AV4. Ignore it if you don't need it.

Plug the other SCART socket, which is AV1, to your TV set, using a SCART
cable plugged into whichever socket on your TV can handle RGB signals,
usually called AV1 or SCART 1. AV1 (on the recorder) is also listed as an
input but if you choose to record from it you will get the composite (not
RGB) output of the tuner in your TV set. Not much good for unattended
recordings unless your TV set is capable of leaving the tuner on while the
display is switched off.

Yes, I missed the detail that you didn't have freeview, and if that means you
will never need it, of course it would be a waste to buy a recorder with it
built in, because the ones with analogue tuners may be cheaper.

Rod.

Roderick Stewart wrote:

In article , wrote:
Apart from the aerial issues (terrestrial and digital), another area that
baffles me is how to choose AV1, AV2, etc. whenever I get options to do so,
either in on-screen menus or in the choice of which socket to plug scarts
into. My Panasonic for example has no fewer than 3 such sockets, AV1, AV2 -
and AV4 (not AV3)! As you see, I am thoroughly confused, and any further
education in really basic terms would be much appreciated please.

On the Panasonic, AV3 is on the front. It'll be a group of phono sockets
under a little flap, for the convenience of plugging temporary things like
camcorders. Just ignore it if you don't need it.

Thanks Rod, appreciate the follow-up.

If you want to record from an external source that can produce RGB signals,
plug it to the SCART input, which is AV2. This would be where to connect a
Sky box, using a fully wired SCART cable,

Is the only way to test whether my Scart cables are 'fully wired' (to
avoid buying fresh ones) using a continuity tester on all pins? Or is
there a clever alternative test?

not forgetting to set both the
output of the Sky box and the AV2 input on the recorder to RGB.

How/where would you typically do that please? I've not come across any
menu options or hardware switches that mention that.

Plug any composite source such as a VHS machine to the composite input on the
back, which is AV4. Ignore it if you don't need it.

Do you mean my VCR recorder (or combo) must only ever be connected to
AV4? How does that square with this setup I've been using successfully
for many months?
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/I...ing29Aug07.jpg

Plug the other SCART socket, which is AV1, to your TV set, using a SCART
cable plugged into whichever socket on your TV can handle RGB signals,
usually called AV1 or SCART 1. AV1 (on the recorder) is also listed as an
input but if you choose to record from it you will get the composite (not
RGB) output of the tuner in your TV set. Not much good for unattended
recordings unless your TV set is capable of leaving the tuner on while the
display is switched off.

Thanks for that thorough explanation. I'm going to have to experiment
at length before I really grasp it all.

Yes, I missed the detail that you didn't have freeview, and if that means you
will never need it, of course it would be a waste to buy a recorder with it
built in, because the ones with analogue tuners may be cheaper.

The LG 160 GB unit I bought has now been refunded. So I'm back at
square one - although getting better informed by the hour ;-)
FWIW, it turns out it was *not* a digital unit. No freeview tuner.
From the Curry's assistant this morning (contradicting the one who
sold it me yesterday), I now understand it would *never* be able to do
what I wanted. I expected to be able to get an on-screen menu of all
the same channels I currently receive via my basic SkyBox, and set up
recordings of specific future programmes with a few clicks.

However, he *was* able to get AutoSetup to scan for channels, albeit
all analogue. So I'm still puzzled why I couldn't do the same last
night. Possibly my old TV aerial needs adjusting, although seems OK on
the 4 channels I can receive.

See also my reply to Peter re SkyBox+ ambiguities.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Peter wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:26:33 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm pretty ignorant on digital TV so I'd appreciate some solid advice
please. First, the background facts. I have a Panasonic TV (TX-32LXD52
32" LCD) and a Philips combo unit which records VCR and plays DVDs.
Last summer I had a satellite dish and Amstrad 'Skybox' fitted (the
£150 SKY package). If it's relevant, we are in a Freeview black hole;
no channels at all.

I now want to get rid of my VCR unit and VHS cassettes (after copying
some first to DVD). I *don't* want to take out a new contract with SKY
(we watch relatively few of the channels we already have). So I don't
want to take my son's advice and 'get SKY PLUS'.

So why don't you purchase a Sky+ box from a dealer, get an LNB upgrade
from your local aerial installer and away you go - register the Sky+
box with Sky, they will send you a new card and you will then be able
to record to your hearts content.

You DON'T need to take out a new contract with Sky

That's contradicted by both Curry's and SKY.

Curry's told me this morning that I *would* have to take out a
subscription. I've had two different figures, £10 or £17 / month for
the minimum package. I'll believe the latter for now, i.e. £204 a
year, which seems expensive when we watch few of the existing
channels. On top of that would be a one-time installation charge,
although here again I'm finding it hard to get unambiguous quotes. The
brochure I have from Curry's implies £99. It also says 'Free Sky+
subscription included', which looked promising. But when I phoned Sky
to ask about that they said that was just for 'the recording facility,
that used to be £10/month'.

Also, the Technical Support Help person I phoned was adamant that the
Sky+ Box would *not* offer any way of recording my VCRs to DVD. Could
someone confirm that crucial point please?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
snip
Also, the Technical Support Help person I phoned was adamant that the
Sky+ Box would *not* offer any way of recording my VCRs to DVD. Could
someone confirm that crucial point please?

A Sky+ will only record satellite, it has no way of recording from an
external source. Also if you ever decide to cancel your subscription you
will not be able to play back programmes previously recorded.

"Adrian A" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
snip
Also, the Technical Support Help person I phoned was adamant that the
Sky+ Box would *not* offer any way of recording my VCRs to DVD. Could
someone confirm that crucial point please?

A Sky+ will only record satellite, it has no way of recording from an
external source. Also if you ever decide to cancel your subscription you
will not be able to play back programmes previously recorded.


Thanks for the confirmation re being unable to record from VCR.

That second point is a revelation. I don't see how it can be
justified? Surely the subscription is paying for the right to view and
record live programmes, not to watch them later? Maybe 10 years later.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:37:36 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

Peter wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:26:33 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm pretty ignorant on digital TV so I'd appreciate some solid advice
please. First, the background facts. I have a Panasonic TV (TX-32LXD52
32" LCD) and a Philips combo unit which records VCR and plays DVDs.
Last summer I had a satellite dish and Amstrad 'Skybox' fitted (the
£150 SKY package). If it's relevant, we are in a Freeview black hole;
no channels at all.

I now want to get rid of my VCR unit and VHS cassettes (after copying
some first to DVD). I *don't* want to take out a new contract with SKY
(we watch relatively few of the channels we already have). So I don't
want to take my son's advice and 'get SKY PLUS'.

So why don't you purchase a Sky+ box from a dealer, get an LNB upgrade
from your local aerial installer and away you go - register the Sky+
box with Sky, they will send you a new card and you will then be able
to record to your hearts content.

You DON'T need to take out a new contract with Sky

That's contradicted by both Curry's and SKY.

Curry's told me this morning that I *would* have to take out a
subscription. I've had two different figures, £10 or £17 / month for
the minimum package. I'll believe the latter for now, i.e. £204 a
year, which seems expensive when we watch few of the existing
channels. On top of that would be a one-time installation charge,
although here again I'm finding it hard to get unambiguous quotes. The
brochure I have from Curry's implies £99. It also says 'Free Sky+
subscription included', which looked promising. But when I phoned Sky
to ask about that they said that was just for 'the recording facility,
that used to be £10/month'.

Also, the Technical Support Help person I phoned was adamant that the
Sky+ Box would *not* offer any way of recording my VCRs to DVD. Could
someone confirm that crucial point please?

A couple of points

1. Sky no longer charge for Sky+.

2. I purchased my Sky+ box privately, then told Sky that I needed a
new viewing card which they sent me. I was charged ten quid a month up
until they stopped charging the premium.

3. Curry's etc will of course receive a commission from Sky for each
new contract they get signed up.

4. Apparently, new and used Sky+ boxes are available from:

http://www.thedigiboxshop.com/sky-pl...-products.html

This is a company that I have no connection with whatsoever, that I
have never used and I have posted the link in order to demonstrate
that it is possible to purchase a Sky box without having to involve
Currys, Comet or Sky etc.

5. As to your last question, I guess you will have to connect your VCR
player to a DVD recorder and burn your VHS library to DVD in that
manner - someone will be along presently to correct this if I'm wrong.

6. AFAIK, no Sky box will record anything to DVD (unless they have a
new box in the pipeline) - you will always need a seperate DVD
recorder

--
Cheers

Peter

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:47:55 +0100, Mike Henry
wrote:

In , Peter
wrote:
A couple of points

And a couple of corrections. This is a technical group after all!

Seems fair enough :-)

1. Sky no longer charge for Sky+.

1a. Sky used to, and currently, charge their customers for Sky+. The fee
could of course return at any time given Sky's past behaviour. Sky+ fee
£10 per month yesterday; "HD" fee £10 per month today; who knows what
they will dream up to charge £10 per month for in the future, and what
people will happily pay. Perhaps it'll be an "unlock FF-through-adverts"
fee. The feature that prevents record/play back unless an authenticated
viewing card that has been flagged as "enable record/play back" is still
there, lurking and ready to be removed should they change policy again
in the future. If Sky were really serious about "scrapping" a usage fee
for Sky+, they would issue a software update with all of this stuff
removed.

OK - Sky don't charge me because I pay for one of their packages -
similarly, if anyone pays for one of their packages, they will not (at
this time) be charged for the Sky+ recording facility

1b. Sky certainly DO still charge £10 per month for Sky+ recording, if
you don't subscribe to a Sky pay-TV viewing package. You have to pay Sky
for the privilege of recording FTA BBC channels. £10 is cheaper than
Sky's minimum 2-mix package which now costs £17 per month after their
recent inflation-busting price rises. Those are the two prices Curry's
quoted and why they are different.

Yes, providing you only want to watch (and record) the free to air &
free to view channels then it is cheaper to pay the 10 quid rather
than the 17 quid for their cheapest package - must check if I need the
package I have!!

2. I purchased my Sky+ box privately, then told Sky that I needed a
new viewing card which they sent me. I was charged ten quid a month up
until they stopped charging the premium.

... and the only reason you don't pay extra for recording now would be
that you already pay Sky for your viewing package!

Indeed.

3. Curry's etc will of course receive a commission from Sky for each
new contract they get signed up.

4. Apparently, new and used Sky+ boxes are available from:

http://www.thedigiboxshop.com/sky-pl...-products.html

This is a company that I have no connection with whatsoever, that I
have never used and I have posted the link in order to demonstrate
that it is possible to purchase a Sky box without having to involve
Currys, Comet or Sky etc.

Indeed, and this is to be encouraged. (The phone connection is only
required (contractually and never technically) if Sky themselves perform
the installation, for one thing).
--
Cheers

Peter

Terry Pinnell wrote:

"Adrian A" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
snip
Also, the Technical Support Help person I phoned was adamant that the
Sky+ Box would *not* offer any way of recording my VCRs to DVD. Could
someone confirm that crucial point please?

A Sky+ will only record satellite, it has no way of recording from an
external source. Also if you ever decide to cancel your subscription you
will not be able to play back programmes previously recorded.


Thanks for the confirmation re being unable to record from VCR.

That second point is a revelation. I don't see how it can be
justified? Surely the subscription is paying for the right to view and
record live programmes, not to watch them later? Maybe 10 years later.

I think this may have been a misunderstanding, stemming from my
ignorance of the Sky+ box. I've since learned that it only records to
its HD, yes? It has no DVD recorder?

So after recording a live TV programme to HD, could I connect the box
to a separate DVD recorder and burn a DVD, which I could use in years
to come, whether or not I was still a SKY subscriber?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:48:34 +0100, Terry Pinnell
wrote:


So after recording a live TV programme to HD, could I connect the box
to a separate DVD recorder and burn a DVD, which I could use in years
to come, whether or not I was still a SKY subscriber?

Yes