Is there such thing as OTA HDTV without dropouts?

I'm sure Alan will cover this in great detail, but with that type of
antenna, and it should be good enough at only 12 miles, it needs to be
pointed precisely. So plug in your exact address in antennaweb and then
make sure the antenna as close to the direction as possible. While it
might work better outside, as long as there's nothing else between you and
the towers and it's not a metallic roof, the attic should be fine.


Wes,

Thanks, I'm going to try to aim the antenna. I never pointed the
antenna at anything. I don't even know which side is the front of the
antenna. I assume it's the pointy side that looks like a arrow. My
roof is a cheap roof. No metallic.

thanks,
stan

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:08:35 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

tomfoolery snipped

ok, so Matthew has "won" in that he has shown the world, for now and
forever, that he's not at all interested in the discussion at hand--that
he will stalk phil and use anything and everything phil says, no matter
how innocuous, as a springboard for attacking phil.

With a name like Shagnasty, it's got to be good!

--
Chris McG.
Harming humanity since 1951.
"Well now you're just getting SILLY." -- Darla

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

ANOTHER IMPORT FACT!!!!!!!!!!

I've never tested my HDTV OTA channels on a saturday morning. All my
previous test were always during prime time TV during the evening from
6pm to 10pm.
Today is Saturday morning at 9:25 am and for the last hour I've been
testing each channel about 5 to 10 minutes each. I actually watched
channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13 without dropouts. The only channel with
several dropout in 3 minutes was channel 5.


In the past I always had a dropout every 5-10 minutes all every
channel with the exception of two channels.

Hats off to Alan for always being so helpful here.

wrote:
: I live about 12 miles away from the broadcasting antenna. I receive
: about 40 OTA (over the air) channels. However, it seems like no
: matter which channel I'm watching, there are always drop outs. The
: picture or the sound does something weird. Then it goes back to
: normal.

: Although HDTV is much more clear. I actually prefer analog because I
: don't have to worry about a dropout.

: Stan

Location, location. You may also try an in-line amplifier form
Radio Shack for around $35. It works great for me.
Cass

On Aug 4, 10:12 am, (Cass Lewart) wrote:
wrote:

: I live about 12 miles away from the broadcasting antenna. I
receive
: about 40 OTA (over the air) channels. However, it seems like no
: matter which channel I'm watching, there are always drop outs.
The
: picture or the sound does something weird. Then it goes back to
: normal.

: Although HDTV is much more clear. I actually prefer analog
because I
: don't have to worry about a dropout.

: Stan

Location, location. You may also try an in-line amplifier form
Radio Shack for around $35. It works great for me.
Cass

Apparently you're not following the thread. He already tried an
amplifier which made things worse so he removed it. At that time I
sugested attenuators but now that we know his other reception issues,
antenna aim and good coax might clean it up for him.

I use clear silicone grease on the outdoor connectors under the
weather boots. The splitter is under the eave where it can get no rain
- even when driving BAD. Due to the splitters location, a drip loop
(good thing) is unavoidable. You also want drip loops where the coax
enters the outside wall. Radio Shack has flanged cylinders for the
passes through the walls. I use white bathtub caulk (stucco house) on
the outside.

GG

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 06:10:58 -0000, wrote:



Do you see any glitches or pulses or other interference on the analog?
One possible cause if the problem affects all channels is some loose
connection somewhere along the antenna lead line.



My analog reception is consistently good.

Stan

Attics can block over 50% of your signal strength. You should have
no lower than 90% signal strength on all the channels you watch.

You need to get that antenna out of the attic and on the roof. Your
problems will go away.

wrote:
Alan,

thanks for your help. Here is a reply to your questions...

In LA, all of the stations are currently digitally broadcasting on
UHF. If you can tune to analog channels, how do the analog UHF stations
look?

I just went through all my Analog UHF and here are the results for the
channels that register on my TV....

22, 28, 30, 34, 40, 54, 56 excellent picture.
33, 45, 46. 50,52, 58, 63 a little snow on picture, but very
watchable
18, 25, 44, 57, 67 a lot of snow, barely watchable
24, 27, 62, poor, can see picture, but unwatchable


At your close range, you should be getting a decent analog picture for
most of the UHF stations. Some of them may be at low power though.

I suspect your big antenna is not that a good performer for UHF.
Also, if the co-axial cable was put in 15 years ago, it may have been
RG-59 cable. RG-59 has higher loss for the upper UHF channels than RG-6
which is what is strongly recommended for antenna cable use today.

Do you still recommend me changing the cable wire after knowing the
results of my analog UHF channels?

Channel Master 4228 8 Bay bowtie directional UHF antenna is a popular
antenna in LA because it has good performance for upper VHF.

I will look into that.

My advice is to first try to tweak your current setup. Check that the
antenna is aimed at or close to Mt. Wilson. If you can, you might try to
tilt the antenna aim upwards as the Mt. Wilson antenna farm is at over
6000'. The UHF yagi part of these big antennas is much more directional
than the VHF antenna. So tilting the antenna up may help.

I never aimed the antenna at Mt. Wilson. I only installed the antenna
without consider that. I don't even know which way is the front of
the antenna. I'm guessing it's the side that is pointy like a arrow.

Aiming the antenna is likely to make a BIG difference. It probably
works for VHF because it is picking up the VHF stations in the sidelobe,
but not very well for UHF. Here is a example spec sheet for a Winegard
VHF/UHF antenna: http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/HD7082P.pdf. If you
look at the beam patterns, it is narrower the higher you go in channels
and frequency.

The front of your antenna should have shorter elements and a vertical
V reflector. This is the UHF part of the your antenna. Aim the antenna
at around 352° with a compass or around 20 degrees west of true north.

Some trig for elevation angle. A check with google Earth shows the
height of your zip code above sea level is around 300'. The antenna
height for KABC-DT is 1821 meters ASL or 5973'
(http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KABC-TV). You are ~ 11 miles away,
so arc tan (5673' difference / (11 miles * 5280')) = 5.6°, so the
broadcast antennas are ~5.6° up! So tilting the antenna up a bit is
worth doing.

Check your co-axial cable. If it is RG-59, can you easily replace it
with quad shielded RG-6 cable? That should help performance for UHF.
Also, if you have any connectors that you can access, open them and
check for corrosion.

I got to look at that.

Open the cable connectors you can easily reach or any that are located
outside and check for any moisture or corrosion. It can sometimes help
to wipe the inside and the center connector with tissue paper and then
reconnect them, but make sure the connection is tight.

The other option is to replace the antenna and co-axial cable run. How
much room do you have in the attic?

A lot of space. I can stand up.

See what you can do with your current antenna. At your range, I would
not be surprised if an indoor UHF antenna would work fine. Another thing
to try, if you can, is to move the antenna around in the attic. Attics
have dead spots, so the antenna could be at a poor location for some of
the UHF channels.

If you want to buy new cable or mounting gear, Lowes usually stocks
antenna mounting gear & cables. I have seen posts that Frys Electronics
often stocks Channel Master 4228 and 4221 bowtie antennas, if you don't
have success with your current antenna.

Do you need to get the analog stations at low VHF?

Here are my results for analog VHF channel....
2, 5, 7, excellent picture

4, 9, 11, 13 very good, some lines on the picture, but no snow.

6, snowy picture and not watchable

Thanks for your help,

Stan

The lines in the analog picture suggest some interference. A shielded
RG-6 cable run can sometimes help with that. But again, try aiming the
antenna first. Analog 6 could be XETV Fox 6 located just across the
Mexico border serving San Diego. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XETV-TV.

Let me know what results you get by tweaking the antenna aim. Good luck!

Alan F

valvejob wrote:
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 06:10:58 -0000, wrote:

Do you see any glitches or pulses or other interference on the analog?
One possible cause if the problem affects all channels is some loose
connection somewhere along the antenna lead line.


My analog reception is consistently good.

Stan

Attics can block over 50% of your signal strength. You should have
no lower than 90% signal strength on all the channels you watch.

You need to get that antenna out of the attic and on the roof. Your
problems will go away.

Yes, attics do reduce signal strength. But Stan is only 11 miles from
the huge antenna farm on Mt. Wilson, so he has a clear shot at the
broadcast towers. Attic mounts are usually easier to put in and access.
If he can get good reception from the attic, he should stick with it.

That is why I always ask for zip code, what model and where the
antenna is before I try to give any specific advice. What someone needs
at 5 miles from the broadcast towers is very different that what someone
needs at 70 miles & over a ridge.

Alan F

Alan F wrote:
valvejob wrote:
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 06:10:58 -0000, wrote:

Do you see any glitches or pulses or other interference on the analog?
One possible cause if the problem affects all channels is some loose
connection somewhere along the antenna lead line.


My analog reception is consistently good.

Stan

Attics can block over 50% of your signal strength. You should have
no lower than 90% signal strength on all the channels you watch.
You need to get that antenna out of the attic and on the roof. Your
problems will go away.

Yes, attics do reduce signal strength. But Stan is only 11 miles from
the huge antenna farm on Mt. Wilson, so he has a clear shot at the
broadcast towers. Attic mounts are usually easier to put in and access.
If he can get good reception from the attic, he should stick with it.

I installed a deep fringe VHF/UHF in my attic in Sutton MA. I was able
to get good watchable pictures from southern NH, through Boston and down
to Providence. I was able to get a barely watchable signal from Mt
Washington, NH when WWMT was there. I would estimate that to be a
distance of ~160 air miles (It's just over 200 driving miles).

That is why I always ask for zip code, what model and where the
antenna is before I try to give any specific advice. What someone needs
at 5 miles from the broadcast towers is very different that what someone
needs at 70 miles & over a ridge.

That's because you are genuinely helpful, unlike poor old phil.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com